I’m not sure

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Thanks for your patience. I have been unexpectedly traveling to attend a funeral.

I think cause and effect can exist with and without thought.

Please give me an example of how cause and effect exists without thought.


Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Please give me an example of how cause and effect exists without thought.

I’m not to sure of an example but I’m just assuming that if you are in the immediate moment experiencing, there’s no room for thought? I may be misunderstanding the question?

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Please give me an example of how cause and effect exists without thought.
I’m not to sure of an example but I’m just assuming that

We are using Direct Experience to break through our assumptions and beliefs.

So, using DE, please give me an example of how cause and effect exists without thought.

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

give me an example of how cause and effect exists without thought.

I believe this cannot be answered because it is impossible. Every cause no matter what, creates thought which is part of the affect.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Every cause no matter what, creates thought

Exactly. Therefore, no cause and no effect without thought. Cause and effect is mind-created. Cause and effect is an assumption, perhaps a belief.
Do we agree on that?


At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?
Close your eyes. Do you see a border for being? Where does being end?

Now open them. In DE there is only seeing/hearing/etc. and thinking provides the labels. It’s like a picture that everything is drawn in pencil on paper – the illusion of separation is created by different colours used – otherwise it’s all paper.

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/807638 ... LI_liUT7M=

Different colors in seeing create the illusion of things but all that is there is seeing. Different levels of sounds create the illusion of a song but all that is there is hearing. Can you see/hear that?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Do we agree on that?

Yes agreed

Is there anything that is separate from everything else?

No, Only when the mind comments on it

Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?

The only thing that divides is the mind

Is there an owner of being?

Nothing owns being but the ego trys hard to

Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?

The self tells me that there is

Close your eyes. Do you see a border for being? Where does being end?

There is no end to being, being is life in itself

Can you see/hear that?

To a certain degree I can. Lately I’ve been having a few kinda uncomfortable old feelings/emotions pop up feels like some resistance or shifting happening but im just trying my best to let it play out and not to identify to much. sometimes simple things like feeling the bottom of my feet as i walk helps.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?
The self tells me that there is

The self tells you that there is a self. So,
using Direct Experience, how do you know that there are others?
How do you know that there is an "I" in others?
How do you know that there is a "you"?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

how do you know that there are others?

through seeing

How do you know that there is an "I" in others?

Thought/thinking tells me that there is an i in others just like myself

How do you know that there is a "you"?

Through thought, sight, smell, sensation, emotion, taste all feels like it builds a’you’

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

how do you know that there are others?
through seeing

Seeing is simply color. Nothing else. So how do you know that there are others?

How do you know that there is a "you"?
Through thought, sight, smell, sensation, emotion, taste all feels like it builds a’you’

Be specific, my friend. Take me through the whole glob of thought, sight, smell, sensation, emotion, taste, step by step.
Is there a you in the sight? in the smell? in the sensation? in the emotion? in the taste?
Where is that "you"?

You mention emotion.
What is emotion?

How do you know that there is a "you"?

Love,
Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

how do you know that there are others?

Through language/interaction, sensation of another person

Is there a you in the sight? in the smell? in the sensation? in the emotion? in the taste?
Where is that "you"?

Feels like the ego is directly experiencing these senses

What is emotion?

Emotion to me is just a thought with alot more power to it rather just a thought about a shopping list

How do you know that there is a "you"?

From childhood conditioning that’s manufactured a ego.

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

how do you know that there are others?
Through language/interaction, sensation of another person

Using Direct Experience, i understand you to say:
language = sound = hearing Is there a self (someone else's self) in that sound that "you" hear?

sensation Is there someone else's self in "your" received sensations?
Please give me an example of what you mean by "interaction."

How do you know that there are others?

Feels like the ego is directly experiencing these senses

We use Direct Experience to knock out the underpinnings of assumptions such as "the ego is directly experiencing...."
Using DE, what is the ego?
How can the ego experience anything?

Emotion to me is just a thought with alot more power

Yes. Emotion is thought, sensation or it might more often be sensation (e.g., tightness), thought (i feel sad).

Give me an example from your life, following the DE example i have just given.

What is emotion?

How do you know that there is a "you"?
From childhood conditioning that’s manufactured a ego.

So, is there is "you"?

Love,
Cheryl

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

I am flying to Europe tonight, so i won't be as prompt answering you.
On the other hand, i'll be 6 hours "closer" to you. :)

Cheryl

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

I am flying to Europe tonight, so i won't be as prompt answering you.
On the other hand, i'll be 6 hours "closer" to you. :)
No probs! Safe travels

Regards Aussie

[Aussie]

Dear Cheryl

Is there a self (someone else's self) in that sound that "you" hear?

Only through my ego telling me that sound is another person’s ego

sensation Is there someone else's self in "your" received sensations?

Yes feels like some sort of connection to another person through thought

Please give me an example of what you mean by "interaction."

Such as hugging your child after not seeing them for a few weeks.

How do you know that there are others?

Through thought labeling experience with others such as conversation, touch, smell

what is the ego?

Thinking/thought

How can the ego experience anything?

Through the senses

Give me an example from your life, following the DE example i have just given.

What is emotion?

Example is if i’m away from home working and my daughter has a birthday, emotion/thought of sadness arises because of missing out on celebrating with her.

So, is there is "you"?

Only through identification with thinking

Kind regards Aussie

[CherylVT]

Dear Aussie,

Please use DE language to answer these questions.

Is there a self (someone else's self) in that sound that "you" hear?
Only through my ego telling me that sound is another person’s ego

By not using DE language of thought, sound, etc., it sounds as if you believe there is an ego--yours and someone else's. I want us to be very clear that you are seeing through these little beliefs and assumptions that we have all been trained in.

So, Is there a sef (someone else's self) in that sound that "you" hear?

Is there someone else's self in "your" received sensations?
Yes feels like some sort of connection to another person through thought

Again, there's one of the pesky beliefs clinging to the DE experience of sensation, thought, etc. (however that manifests for you.) Please use DE language.
Otherwise,

feels like some sort of connection through thought

sounds like a belief is wrapped around the pure sensation of.... What is that sensation? What is that thought?

my daughter has a birthday, emotion/thought of sadness arises

Using DE language, please pick apart that word "emotion" or "sadness." Otherwise, it sounds as though you believe that there is emotion. How does emotion work?

You are so close!

Love,
Cheryl