xicadelliberation

[xicadel]

Thank you Elad, I feel an exhale of relief reading your words. None of that goes away! Excellent!

When I say I enjoy the illusion of separate self I mean I get pleasure out of of these thoughts of "mine" that seem to emanate from "me" -- the illusion that I am a distinct, separate, meaningful being: unique! I like myself, I enjoy my own company. My perspective still seems to be "this is me, apart from all else" and somehow that pleases me. I have also known how painful it is at times --- to feel very alone, apart, lonely, "this is me, apart from all else." Sometimes it is the core of my suffering! Other times it is fun, playful, amusing... enjoyable. I feel special. I am glad that fun part won't go away :)

It occurs to me that in the letter I am working on, maybe I am saying hello to the "illusion" part of separate self, but not good bye to separate self. It feels like a slow process. The understanding that I (illusion of self who is in control) am NOT in control is pretty daunting in some ways. Twinges of fear, twinges of "how can that be?" and yet it also feels lovely. Like breeze in the leaves. Moments it feels quite free. Moments I feel the energy move through me easily. That is also very enjoyable.

[Elad]

Perfect!

Exactly the confusion that brings about unnecessary strain and confusion will be seen through. And you will keep being unique like every blade of grass, in your unique way, with your talents, dispositions, stories, humor, tone of emotionality and empathy etc. etc.

The way you described what the letter is about is spot on.

Keep looking: Is it true that while everything exists as it is, including a healthy psychological sense of self-love and individuation, there is in fact no separate self/doer running the show?

And is it true that is that is seen and the clinging of fear and confusion reduces, actions and thoughts that are loving and useful in the relative sense keep happening, in fact they flow more unhindered?

Appreciating your deep looking and your openness,
Elad

[xicadel]

Having a very emotional morning here. I delayed my trip to see my mom and saw her last night finally, She was SO happy to see me and I am so happy I came. And it is so hard to be in her house without her, and alone. And with the mediation I sit and a voice comes in that taunts me telling me I have no right to exist, no right to want, that I am too weak, not strong enough, will never be enough... I have been sitting in so much shame all morning. Shame at my anger, my wanting, for not doing enough for my mom, for hurting others because I act to get what I want even at the expense of others

(and one of my friends who is very wise asked me "Who is receiving those voices? I don't even know).

And when I read what you wrote I started bawling and laughing. Excuse my language but OH MY FUCKING GOD it is all SO TRUE. Did I imagine equanimity and peace? Ha!!!! There is more room for more of EVERYTHING to come in and that includes anger shame hurt pain sadness grief joy loving .. what a comedy to just say yes -- there isn't really any other choice is there? It comes anyway whether I say yes or no!!! So comic so deeply comic. And deeply comic that I ever thought I could exercise will to control any of it.

[Elad]

That's a bingo!! :D

Precious!

Write me again tomorrow, let me know if the view is the same, changed, any doubts, etc. :)

Big smile, warm eyes
Elad

[xicadel]

Today: Awareness of the stream of energy coming through means each moment is kind of miraculous. Today I feel clear, spacious, content. Will I still get caught up in my emotions and thoughts? Sure. They seem so real sometimes. And I also feel a kind of distance, a disidentification with thoughts and emotions. Clouds in the sky. Rain. Breeze. Thunder. Hurricane. Clear again. It all passes. Love sky. Be sky. The sky allows it all and is not defined by it. Shunyata. In emptiness, all things are possible. In emptiness, there is openness to everything. I had thought that compassion would enter and would feel (physically) warm and loving but my body mostly feels clear and open, curious. Grounded, here. What is real? Sensation. Sound of cello music (David Darling. Hearing.), feel of my toe touching the floor (feel pressure). I am not sure how else to describe my day. I woke in the middle of the night feeling clear, easy. No drama.

[Elad]

Precious and beautiful!!

Can you answer the final questions again, don't reread last answers, just fresh and direct.

[Elad]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?

How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[xicadel]

I'll need some time for these answers. Heavy work day plus making dinner to take to my mom... I want time to feel into what happens as drop the idea of self/me as doer... right now there is a lot of doing in my life :)

[Elad]

Yes, take all the time you need, also if you feel a need to ask or share other things before, feel free. We should continue until it feels really good and genuine to answer those. And when you do, keep it simple, just what is most direct. Warmth from here.

[xicadel]

Thanks for your warmth. I feel it and am returning it your direction!



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

A truly separate self, no. Never.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a belief that there is some core “I” that exists through time. I still have only theories about how it forms. Maybe something neurological comes online – prefrontal function? Memory? Maybe it is a survival mechanism to help us follow the rules of tribe/society and find food. It seems to me that some mechanism strings our memories together as if the one who experiences them is a solid, continuous self. I don’t know when that starts. Very young I suppose.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I still feel a mixture of terror and relief and awe. The last few days I have moments when I experience (… this is very hard to put into words …) a kind of seeing from a timeless perspective. As if I can see the life of Xica playing on a movie screen in front of me: the memories, the parade of preferences and emotions and thoughts I think is me… I see all that (“my life”) as if from a distance. Not geographical so much as point of view: It’s a great story. It allows me to function every day and move through the day as if I have agency (more on that below). I take pleasure in it, it provides a context for me to interpret my experiences and awareness.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Spending time with my mom has been a big part of this process for me. As she sinks deeper and deeper into dementia she has lost most memory. The past is gone. She still knows who I am (“her daughter”) and feels happy to see me. She still has all the physical gestures, sounds, smells I recognize as her, and yet the rest of her “self” is mostly gone. Increasingly, she no longer remembers anything about our past relationship or what we did together or who I am. None of that matters. The past I remember is gone except in my own memory. The “me” I remember that has been held by her for almost 60 years is gone. So poignant! Yet it helps me see there is nothing but the present moment. The past doesn’t exist. The future doesn’t even exist. All that exists is her smiling face (seeing) and a space between us, a space together, in the moment. I wash and rub her feet and she doesn’t remember that I did it yesterday. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that she feels pleasure experiencing the sensation in the moment. It feels good and therefore she loves me. She looks in my eyes and she loves me, in a very simple way. The self part doesn’t actually matter. Her self was an illusion, So is mine. The timelessness moments with her are more real than anything else.

It is very painful and the pain comes from wanting to hold on, wanting to remember the feel of her hand in mine, wanting to remember the sound of her voice. It will be gone for good soon. In some ways, it is gone the minute I leave the room. All I can do is remember. Memory is nothing. Memory is everything. I want to hold on to the experience. And I cannot. I want to hold on to some sort of “me” her daughter and her as my mom, but that only exists in a realm of time.

If I pull back and scope out (broad perspective) there is a different existence. The awareness that she and I have always been connected, and always will be. I feel it acutely with her, but that is true of everyone and all things.


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?

These things exist in daily life in the sense that we believe we are exercising free will, making decisions, making choices. I don’t know what their origin is or how they come about. If I drill down and keep drilling down, I don’t know if free will and choice are real or also illusions. I have no idea what makes things happen. If I had to put it into words, I’d say the actions and choices I make exist in the surface reality of every day life and there are deeper processes at work that I do not understand. This was the moment of hilarity I experienced the other day: How comic to think I am in control of anything! The choices and decisions I make are simply moving chess pieces on the board, not the game itself. I see clearly that there is a mystery underneath my self and how I move through each day (how any of us move through the days).

The conversation I had about novelty with my friend was pivotal. Novelty exists, novelty can’t be explained. We can’t will it, it happens. And it is crucial to the flow of the universe… unexplainable. Not my choice.


How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I don’t really know. I feel a wish to bring this awareness of the mystery into my every day life and hold it also for others. My hope is that it can grow into a greater acceptance of the process of life and death and whatever life brings… greater compassion for myself and others as we fumble through life.

[Elad]

Thank you for the deep sharing. And re the questions, okay we are closer, maybe almost there, maybe need more work.

Please look:

Is anything ever truly *not* novel, except when attention is narrowed to ideas instead of reality? And so, do you ever truly have control or choice with anything?

Is there any kind of separate self at all that is not an illusion? It can be a useful illusion, but does it ever truly exist as separate entity with any control whatsoever?

Please look deeply in your direct experience. Don't accept answer from the "clever mind", only what is seen.

[Elad]

Thank you for the deep sharing. And re the questions, okay we are closer, clearer, maybe there, maybe need more work.

Please look:

Is anything ever truly *not* novel, except when attention is narrowed to ideas instead of reality? And so, do you ever truly have control or choice with anything?

Is there any kind of separate self at all that is not an illusion? It can be a useful illusion, but does it ever truly exist as separate entity with any control whatsoever?

Please look deeply in your direct experience. Don't accept answer from the "clever mind", only what is seen.

[xicadel]

Is anything ever truly *not* novel, except when attention is narrowed to ideas instead of reality? And so, do you ever truly have control or choice with anything?

Ok, my experience of novelty this morning. As I eat breakfast, I slow down my chewing to arrest autopilot chewing. If I slow down enough to examine the moment of choice to chew I can’t pin in down. I cannot find the moment of self deciding, cannot find the self. More, I notice a zillion things happening without any decision. I wiggle my toes, I shift in my chair. Who made that choice? It happens. My body knows what to do, my body does it. There is no self dictating that choice. Further, if I sink into noticing novelty I notice yes the taste of my food is familiar but there is SO much going on that creates a novel moment. The trees have never looked exactly like that before, I have never eaten breakfast sitting in this chair, in this way, with these exact sensations or thoughts ever before. (That level of presence is hard to maintain!) Every moment that experiencing self slips away – gives way to a different experience (even if only ever so slightly different: a different placement of my foot, a different motion of my tongue against my gums).
I feel resistance to the idea that I am not controlling anything. I desire to do away with the idea that I can control my actions, but the desire remains. Even while all the subtleties of my body are not being controlled by me. More, I can’t control the desire to stop resisting. BIG INSIGHT. I cannot control my desires. They appear. I think I control my choice to act on them, but where does that decision come from? Drilling down, I don’t even control that choice, cannot control my desire to be in some sort of control. I can’t will myself to stop resisting.

Is there any kind of separate self at all that is not an illusion? It can be a useful illusion, but does it ever truly exist as separate entity with any control whatsoever?

I can’t see any self with actual control. I also don’t see a self separate from everything around me. I will note the illusion of separateness still has me in it’ grip – especially when I physically feel my insides (ex: fluttering stomach) and it feels very much “just me.” Maybe I am hopeless 😊

[Elad]

Beautiful, so you see you don't control anything and that no separate self can be found, yes? Including resistance, desires, etc., all natural phenomena, not in control upon inspection. Can you confirm in no uncertain terms?

The mind can always create doubt stories, and most of us are used to live in identification with thought rather then presence, but in presence/looking it's clear? Like we believed in Santa Claus and were used to and attached to be engaged with the story, but every time we actually look, clearly all evidence is he is not there.

"I will note the illusion of separateness still has me in it’ grip – especially when I physically feel my insides (ex: fluttering stomach) and it feels very much “just me.” Maybe I am hopeless 😊"

Let's investigate that. Dig in deeply to that sensation you identify as me. In the stomach or where ever it is (can shift).

Is there any me in that sensation? Or is there just sensation plus story that it's me?

[xicadel]

I can feel that investigation is worth a lot more time than I have the next two days. A brief time investigating revealed that it is difficult for me to parse the sensation from the story that my sensations are mine, accompanied by some very deep stories. One is a doubt that other humans exist. If I cannot feel another (physically or with eye contact) I am not sure a person is there. The experiments with sound and vision were illuminating (albeit vision was harder to see that there is no me vs object I am seeing, but just seeing). I can feel my internal sensations as just sensations, but the story is very loud that if no one else feels it I am alone – all alone in the universe. There is a moment of collapse (fear). Collapse into the sensation and the story. If I return to a more holistic direct experience, there is more sensation aside from my internal sensations: hearing, seeing (“external” – I am already in dualism making the distinction eh?). I gradually come out of the collapse (I am pretty sure this is a deep story, a trauma response in my nervous system from a lot of developmental trauma in my childhood, around which I then constructed a world view – an even broader story which seems “true” that other people are dangerous and it is safer to be alone, and it seems very, very deeply engrained in me to feel alone as a protective mechanism, although it is also terrifying). These are the stories I very much want to deprogram. So, let me take this slowly. Of all the exercises, this one feels like it gets at a root resistance in me and I want to be careful with it. I will keep working with it.
I will be offline the next two days as I leave my mom and travel back home.
Thank you Elad, for your persistence with me and your care and patience.