Truth over illusions!

[EmmaNoOne]

I'm on this Jon, I'm just gonna keep trying what you have suggested. Sitting in direct experience!

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

That's great.

If you get tired of exploring seeing, try hearing in much the same way, or actually, any if the five senses too.

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

If you get tired of exploring seeing, try hearing in much the same way, or actually, any if the five senses too.

This is interesting because with sounds and smells, during the beach exercise, I found they just were and I couldn't identify where they began or ended or really what they even were, other than just being aware of them. Seeing, I am finding more challenging because obviously we have been told we see out of our eyes, and when I apparently look out, I can see my hands in front of me so it does seem like sight is coming from the eyes, but there isn't actually a direct experience of that, it's just what I have been taught.

I guess the actual experience isn't eyes seeing, no. Something is just aware of what is apparently happening. And no, it's not something inside, again this is something learned but there isn't anything tangible here. Even trying to think about the character that is 'seeing' gets weird. What even is a personality? It seems ridiculous actually. Having 'personality traits', what even is that? It's quite helpful for me to even contemplate, 'what is Emma?' Because it really starts to get to nothingness then.

Is there even an "observer observing" right now?

Well what is it if it's not some kind of observer? I struggle a bit here. I don't know what it is, but something is observing this apparent experience. Or is not? Is awareness different to observer? 😂

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

Great work looking at senses! Well done. And yes, eyes can seem tricky for a lot of people at first. In our culture "the eyes are the windows of the soul" seems to be a very widely held belief and an identification with eyes, sight as "me". Not only that, the intellect is often spoken about in terms of "seeing clearly". So sight is often mixed up with the belief that "I am in my head, looking out".

But you're investigating this very well. One thing to ask in relation to each of the five senses is "is there an entity somewhere, experiencing the experience of hearing, seeing, taste and so on, or are these just happening (+thoughts sometimes added on)?

. Well what is it if it's not some kind of observer? I struggle a bit here. I don't know what it is, but something is observing this apparent experience. Or is not? Is awareness different to observer? 😂

It doesn't have to be a struggle but thinking makes it so sometimes.

How about , instead of "an observer observing" we subtly shift the language again and just say "observing" or "observing happening"? (The trouble with the word "observer" is that it immediately suggests a split between "an observer" and "an observed". "Noticing" is a good alternative. It does not imply a subject and an object but it still works very well.

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

How about , instead of "an observer observing" we subtly shift the language again and just say "observing" or "observing happening"? (The trouble with the word "observer" is that it immediately suggests a split between "an observer" and "an observed". "Noticing" is a good alternative. It does not imply a subject and an object but it still works very well.

This is very helpful! I understand the difference between an observer observing vs simply observing. This actually ties in really well with some thought watching I did this morning. It was actually pretty funny just how random some of it was and awareness was definitely sat back and just watching. There was no 'me' in there. There were sentences that came out of nowhere and were nothing to do with anything. Not your usual thoughts like, I need to take the bin out today, I mean they were absolutely not relevant to anything. One was something to do with a bomb, some sentences didnt even make any sense. As the thoughts were observed I remember feeling like, how on earth can these even be observed? They make no sound, I cant 'see' them. So how can any 'I' or 'me' observe them in this way?

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

Sorry to be absent for a day. Things became busy here.

. This is very helpful! I understand the difference between an observer observing vs simply observing. This actually ties in really well with some thought watching I did this morning. It was actually pretty funny just how random some of it was and awareness was definitely sat back and just watching. There was no 'me' in there.

Well,that is interesting. It is only though this kind of looking that it finally tends to dawn on us that it is not just metaphorical and that no self can be found.

. One was something to do with a bomb, some sentences didnt even make any sense. As the thoughts were observed I remember feeling like, how on earth can these even be observed? They make no sound, I cant 'see' them. So how can any 'I' or 'me' observe them in this way?

Those are good points! That's right. And yet these thoughts are noticed . Funny to be talking about how it is impossible for an imagined "I" to observe thoughts whilst they are at the same time noticed ! Ha ha ha!

All the best

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hello Emma

Just checking in to see how it's going?

I may be going in holiday camping for a few days and that may mean that there could be an occasional delay in responding. Only a few days but just wanted to mention it.

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Sounds nice Jon! And no problem.

All good over here. Had a bit of a bumpy day yesterday with thoughts but it was definitely more an awareness than consumed by. It wasn't like they were believed. More a noticing of them and then occasionally a kind of 'yeah I can see your point' 😂 but even felt like awareness observed that bit as well. It was interesting!

[EmmaNoOne]

I had an interesting experience yesterday. I was in the shower and my eyes were closed and I was washing my body and I was like, wow, where even is my apparent body? How am I still observing this? It was such a strange sensation. When you start paying attention and stop just assuming you know how things are, it does get a bit weird 😂

Are there any other exercises I can be doing whilst you are away Jon?

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

Back now!

. had an interesting experience yesterday. I was in the shower and my eyes were closed and I was washing my body and I was like, wow, where even is my apparent body? How am I still observing this? It was such a strange sensation. When you start paying attention and stop just assuming you know how things are, it does get a bit weird 😂

Are there any other exercises I can be doing whilst you are away Jon?

Well, what you've just recounted is very interesting isn't it? Those questions you were asking are actually excellent pointers or ways to inquire.

In particular "When you start paying attention and stop just assuming you know how things are " is very good! Yes, this can seem weird sometimes. Assumptions can crumble.

You're doing very well the way you've been investigating sensations Emma.

Is there a "you" , anywhere, separate from things but somehow experiencing them from some separate position?

Is there a someone, like a puppet master, behind the scenes, pulling strings and making things happen?

How do things happen. ? Do you make anything happen?

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

How do things happen. ? Do you make anything happen?

I have definitely recently had experiences where there was awareness of just happening. I was in the shower and I looked down and 'I' had just shaved my legs, I had a razor in my hand. There has been absolutely no decision made, no control from a 'me' whatsoever. It was very noticeable. There hadn't even been any thoughts observed of, 'I need to shave'. Sometimes it seems like you make things happen because the thought comes before the action, for example, 'I might go for a run', and then you go for a run. But there is literally no way to know if you would go for a run with or without that thought because so many things are done without a thought before them. Checking this message, I didn't think, I better check the message, but here I am! I am really starting to get more and more that things are just happening.

Is there a "you" , anywhere, separate from things but somehow experiencing them from some separate position?

This felt very challenging initially but it feels like it's starting to drop in. The fact that I have no idea where I am watching things from, that its just assumption to see out of eyes and hear from ears. I close my eyes sometimes and I'm trying to feel where my big toe or, or where my ear is and there is no difference, other than thoughts about where they are. The one thing that tried to trip this up though was apparently seeing the tip of my nose when I 'look down'. That was a bit like, well that clearly proves I'm looking out of the eyes just above the nose! 😂

But I feel like it's starting to feel like I'm not a me, not an Emma, not a character, and everything is just playing out

[EmmaNoOne]

Just had a very interesting experience. I had just done a meditation and was feeling very present. I was eating cereal and I closed my eyes. I was trying to see if I could distinguish where the flavour was coming from, and where the crunching noise was coming from. Intellectually, it's flavour from the mouth and noise from the ears but this really wasn't the experience at all. There was no way to distinguish what was being experienced where and there was certainly no separateness between the two apparently different experiences. It was like almost like both were happening kind of up! I hope that makes sense 😂

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. Is there a "you" , anywhere, separate from things but somehow experiencing them from some separate position?


This felt very challenging initially but it feels like it's starting to drop in. The fact that I have no idea where I am watching things from, that its just assumption to see out of eyes and hear from ears

Very good! You're doing so well.

. There was no way to distinguish what was being experienced where and there was certainly no separateness between the two apparently different experiences. It was like almost like both were happening kind of up! I hope that makes sense 😂

You're really guiding yourself better than I could.

Let this natural inquisitiveness continue. And yes, it does make sense!

Given how you've been exploring recently, do you feel that "separation" is seen through and that it's clear that there's no separate "self"?

😊

[EmmaNoOne]

Hi John, sorry this got missed somehow!

Given how you've been exploring recently, do you feel that "separation" is seen through and that it's clear that there's no separate "self"?

I wouldn't say I'm there yet. I still have some opinions about apparent others, and can still get myself caught up in, 'you said this' and 'I' didn't like that, for example. I do feel like all is one in that, it feels like awareness is all there is, oneness, but I still think the belief is there that others are there having this experience, as I am, they are also awareness having their own experience of this realm, being in a body etc. But I guess I have no way to know this is true.

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

No need to apologise

. I wouldn't say I'm there yet. I still have some opinions about apparent others, and can still get myself caught up in, 'you said this' and 'I' didn't like that, for example

Well, are they "your" opinions, exactly ? Opinions appear , for sure. But do you "think" them up?

Getting caught up happens. Does that mean there's a "self" that could get caught up? Or more of a narrative about that?


All best

Jon