belladonna123 this is thread is for you

[belladonna123]

"What is the ONLY never changing aspect, the one "thing" that has always been there, for the whole of "your" ever changing life and during the entirety of the ever-changing world around you. In your direct experience. Look back, look forward in your life and return to right now. What is the ONLY never changing "thing" that has always been "there"? And you answered, "A general non-specific type of awareness?"
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

Yay, I got an answer right!!!!

Does the physical world appear to rise into awareness?

Yes

Does the dream world at night appear to rise into awareness and disappear?

Yes

Does anything ever happen to awareness? Is awareness born? Does awareness die? Or, is it simply there, present being aware?

No, nothing ever happens to it, it never changes. It isn't born and it doesn't die. It just IS. It is there present being aware.

[Shell]

Hi dear Karen,

Thanks very much for your very concise replies. Well done my friend!

Is this thing labelled awareness always aware of something? How about letting looking at awareness happen for a bit?

Should you discover that awareness is not always aware of something...can you sort of try to put into words of your own what that is like? This awareness thing?

If awareness just is...how does that feel? Is there any sort of feeling that goes with awareness just being?

Karen, do you have any questions? We engaged in this LU direct seeing/looking task together... purely so that you could really and truly come to see through the illusion of "I" (and all the pronouns that rise with that one letter, "I"). From your answers...it seems that you have seen through this illusion.

This is possibly the most essential illusion to come to see through. Years of conditioning mean that for many of us...there will be other illusions to see through...but, now we have the tools to do so whenever doubt arises, or questions arise, etc, etc, etc. Beyond this gateless gate are groups that you are welcome to join. After-care groups, discussion groups, the Work groups (Byron Katie). There is a wide room there to continue, with input from "others" what we sometimes refer to as the falling process (seeing through other illusions we may hold). For those who would love to give the tools on further, there is a group that teaches one how to guide here.

But you are not going into those groups unless you can say and write with absolute surety here that you have indeed seen through the illusion of "I" xxxxx

Let me know...and I will post the final few questions to you, one at a time. Should you feel ready to answer them, when you have answered, I will ask other guides to read them for feedback - which is just as much for me as it is for you.

Much love,
Shell xxx

[Shell]

Hi dear, this is my second post back to back, so look directly above, ok?

You shared that you study A Course in Miracles.

The following is my favourite prayer and re-minder from the Course...and it is really hard for me to imagine that you wont love it as much as I do...or that you wont see the relevance of it, in terms of this work here at LU. I'm just throwing it here for no reason...other than sharing xxx

Lesson 189: ...."Simply do this: Be still, and lay aside all thoughts of what you are and what God is; all concepts you have learned about the world; all images you hold about yourself. Empty your mind of everything it thinks is either true or false, or good or bad, of every thought it judges worthy, and all the ideas of which it is ashamed. Hold onto nothing. Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught, nor one belief you ever learned before from anything. Forget this world, forget this course, and come with wholly empty hands unto your God."

Love,

Shell xxx

"

[belladonna123]

Beautiful lesson Shell! Thank you for posting it - it definitely is very relevant! XXXOOO

Karen

[belladonna123]

Is this thing labelled awareness always aware of something? How about letting looking at awareness happen for a bit?

Should you discover that awareness is not always aware of something...can you sort of try to put into words of your own what that is like? This awareness thing? If awareness just is...how does that feel? Is there any sort of feeling that goes with awareness just being?

To be honest Shell, I don't know. I know it's still there even if I am unconscious, I would like to think it is always aware of something, but I also feel that it just is. When I clear my mind of all thought and relax, I feel a calmness and joy within my heart and I'd like to think that is what awareness is.

Karen, do you have any questions? We engaged in this LU direct seeing/looking task together... purely so that you could really and truly come to see through the illusion of "I" (and all the pronouns that rise with that one letter, "I"). From your answers...it seems that you have seen through this illusion.

My question is this: I know there should be no expectations about what is supposed to happen, if anything, once you've REALLY seen through the illusion, but is there any one major thing that everyone usually experiences when it happens for them? Can you describe your own experience, if it isn't too personal?

This is possibly the most essential illusion to come to see through. Years of conditioning mean that for many of us...there will be other illusions to see through...but, now we have the tools to do so whenever doubt arises, or questions arise, etc, etc, etc. Beyond this gateless gate are groups that you are welcome to join. After-care groups, discussion groups, the Work groups (Byron Katie). There is a wide room there to continue, with input from "others" what we sometimes refer to as the falling process (seeing through other illusions we may hold). For those who would love to give the tools on further, there is a group that teaches one how to guide here.

Thank you Shell! I love Byron Katie, by the way.

But you are not going into those groups unless you can say and write with absolute surety here that you have indeed seen through the illusion of "I" xxxxx

Let me know...and I will post the final few questions to you, one at a time. Should you feel ready to answer them, when you have answered, I will ask other guides to read them for feedback - which is just as much for me as it is for you.

That sounds awesome Shell! I love the fact that you would even ask for feedback, I am so honored and privileged to have such a dedicated guide!!XXOOO

I feel that I'm not quite ready yet because your question about awareness stumped me. If you could explain exactly what awareness is or isn't aware of I'd appreciate it! Thanks! Karen

[Shell]

Good early morning, dearest, Karen,

(Is this thing labelled awareness always aware of something? How about letting looking at awareness happen for a bit?
Should you discover that awareness is not always aware of something...can you sort of try to put into words of your own what that is like? This awareness thing?
If awareness just is...how does that feel? Is there any sort of feeling that goes with awareness just being?)

To be honest Shell, I don't know. I know it's still there even if I am unconscious, I would like to think it is always aware of something, but I also feel that it just is. When I clear my mind of all thought and relax, I feel a calmness and joy within my heart and I'd like to think that is what awareness is.

I feel that I'm not quite ready yet (for the final questions) because your question about awareness stumped me. If you could explain exactly what awareness is or isn't aware of I'd appreciate it! Thanks! Karen

Dearest, its more helpful if I dont explain, but rather make comment on your answer and question you, so that you find your answer :-)
First of all, being honest and saying "I dont know" is a powerful place to start from :) Good one!
Question: WHAT would like to think it is always aware of something?

You gave the answer, "I also feel that it just is (awareness)". That feels like a very good answer as a result of direct looking. The bit about calmness and joy within the heart is also just fine. (Its hard to make adjectives/ words suffice. I know).

You worked out for yourself by direct looking that there is no see-er...just seeing and the seen; no hear-er, just hearing and the heard; no sense-er, just sensing and the sensed.
Thats what I was guiding you to here, too.
Is there an aware-er...or just awaring and the simultaneous awared of?
Is there an aware-er...or, at times, just awaring of awareness itself?

My question is this: I know there should be no expectations about what is supposed to happen, if anything, once you've REALLY seen through the illusion, but is there any one major thing that everyone usually experiences when it happens for them? Can you describe your own experience, if it isn't too personal?

I think it is safe to say that no two "people" ever experience it the same way. For some...there is almost disappointment and great surprise (ie, thats all this was ever about?! No cosmic orgasms?!); for some...there are rather exciting happenings - cosmic orgasms ;-), for some its a quiet process; for some its felt as quite dramatic and even painful as the illusion drops away. If there is one thing that seems to be pretty broadly experienced or felt, it is UNBELIEVABLY DEEP GRATITUDE and UNBELIEVABLE RELIEF. That last was my experience...but dont worry too much about it, you will know when you know, and it will be as it will be...

That sounds awesome Shell! I love the fact that you would even ask for feedback, I am so honored and privileged to have such a dedicated guide!!XXOOO

Ahhh, Darling, the same honouring and privileging is going on here, too, believe me! Thank you...The founders of LU set this system up, of inviting guides to review and suggest further questions. You know that this was never about killing the ego, or ignoring the ego. It is about SEEING through the ego. So, the "ego" does not go away. Not for most of us, at least! But, it no longer matters whether its there or not. Bit like Santa Claus, really. (But dont tell an 8 year old that xxxx). Its just seen through...and that is how illusions of something being real that are not real drop away. How can we get rid of illusions by killing them, fighting them, ignoring them? If anything, that just makes illusions even more real for us! No, it is ONLY by directly looking that illusions are seen to be illusions.
This all said, we get very close with you...and so its really good to have other guides check us out (for our benefit) and see whether we may have forgotten something essential. Its all for you xxx

Look forward to your answers to the fine tuning over awareness today...

Oh, one more comment:

You established, by direct looking, that awareness is always there...sometimes it is full of the world and dreams and concepts like linear time that rises into it and then subsides; sometimes it is empty. That was a really really good dis-covery, dear Karen.
That makes me really really really happy for you. Pure awareness is not the end of "the journey without a distance".
But, oh joy that you have come soooo far.

xxxxxx

[belladonna123]

Dearest, its more helpful if I dont explain, but rather make comment on your answer and question you, so that you find your answer :-)
First of all, being honest and saying "I dont know" is a powerful place to start from :) Good one!
Question: WHAT would like to think it is always aware of something?

You gave the answer, "I also feel that it just is (awareness)". That feels like a very good answer as a result of direct looking. The bit about calmness and joy within the heart is also just fine. (Its hard to make adjectives/ words suffice. I know).

You worked out for yourself by direct looking that there is no see-er...just seeing and the seen; no hear-er, just hearing and the heard; no sense-er, just sensing and the sensed.
Thats what I was guiding you to here, too.
Is there an aware-er...or just awaring and the simultaneous awared of?
Is there an aware-er...or, at times, just awaring of awareness itself?

Hi Shell-When I say I would like to think, there really is no I, so maybe I should have said a thought comes that awareness should always be aware of something, but there is awaring and the simultaneous awared of. There is also awaring of awareness itself. I say I am aware but there is no I to be aware. There is just awaring of awareness.

[Shell]

Well done, dear! Well done, indeed!!!

So...have you seen throught the illusion of I?

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[Shell]

And one more question for you, sweet Karen:

Are you pure awareness? (sometimes called pure consciousness)?

[Shell]

Sorry, ignore the question above...silly me missed your answer, which was,

"I say I am aware but there is no I to be aware. There is just awaring of awareness".

[Shell]

Hi dear Karen, third short post back to back so check above, ok?
You have asked me questions in this thread, which I have not answered.
How would you like to go through this thread, find the questions you asked and received no answer for from me...and see if you feel that you can answer your own questions here, now. Not through intellectualising...but, as we have been learning to do, through direct looking, direct SEEING...

Love, Shell xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[belladonna123]

You have asked me questions in this thread, which I have not answered.
How would you like to go through this thread, find the questions you asked and received no answer for from me...and see if you feel that you can answer your own questions here, now. Not through intellectualising...but, as we have been learning to do, through direct looking, direct SEEING...

Sounds good Shell, I'll go ahead and do that.

Thank you!
Karen

[belladonna123]

I feel very confused like my brain is going to explode. What is the point? Why do we have all these lifetimes, cycles of birth and death, if not for the evolution of a personal self/soul/spirit? Why all these spiritual teachings? Why bother with anything if we're just like plants? I guess that's it. Thank you Shell! Karen

Hmmmmm, well I had the thought the other day "the world does not need fixing" I wondered why I suddenly felt that and I just felt like I knew it was perfect the way it was. Now if you ask me why that is - knowing there is no personal self/soul/spirit now I think all this experiencing happens for the general, non-specific awareness. Why this awareness wants this, I can't say.

[belladonna123]

Then as I write this I think, "But what about the Akashic records and people who say every thought and action in the world is documented and is available for anybody to access and this confuses me." I would say I have no way of knowing whether many of my thoughts are actually true or not. I would say most are probably not true though based on past experience.

We've only established that thoughts aren't personal. They do exist though, so there is no problem that I can see with thoughts being documented if there is a general Awareness that exists in the world. Hmmm maybe like a giant database?

When I am meditating and I am waiting for a thought to come, to me that proves I am not my thoughts, so there is "something" waiting for the thoughts. So wouldn't there be a seer, even if it's not "Karen"? I am really confused by this question, can you elaborate on this one as well? I'm sorry - I don't mean to be dense. I feel that 1) is the "right" answer though but if I close my eyes, I am not seeing but my desk is still here even though it's not being seen. Is this what you mean?

Hmm, I guess even the idea "I am waiting for a thought to come" is a thought isn't it? So a thought comes that I am waiting for a thought to come. But a thought could come that I am morbidly obese, that doesn't necessarily mean my body IS morbidly obese. So if a thought comes that "I" am waiting for a thought to come, that means nothing. IF the seeing and seen is simultaneous then the desk is not there when I'm not seeing it.

[belladonna123]

Well done, dear! Well done, indeed!!!

So...have you seen throught the illusion of I?

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I believe so!