Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

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poppyseed
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby poppyseed » Wed Jul 05, 2023 1:10 pm

Hi Vitas
No, there are no others and there is no an 'I' in others. Others can only be experienced as the same interdependent movement or 'aliveness' happening as 'others'.
Beautiful!!!
When I do this observation 'I' can see how life is happening as a whole and that there are no separate things anywhere. After some time or if something ordinary happens (phone rings, somebody calls) thoughts bring 'me' to separate state. It takes some time to once again realize that there is no separate 'me' and separate caller. This jumping is happening all the time. At least now I can see that this jumping is just happening and is also a part of the same interdependent movement. Who should decide that there should be no 'jumping back to separate self and once again to no separate self' if there is no decision maker. So it is just 'jumping' :)
Exactly! Once the empty nature of this “separate self “ is seen, together with “others” “phone”, etc., then these are seen as useful tools like the icons on your computer screen.

When someone we know dies, it takes time for that to "sink in". It's not that we don't believe that the person has died. It is just they are still part of our lives - we open the wardrobe and their clothes are still there, we walk in the park and we remember when we used to do it together. It takes time to readjust our lives to living without them. That process of “sinking in” can be observed in many other situations – like being diagnosed with a life changing disease, losing a job that we had for a long time etc. Even though the change is sudden and quick, it can be perceived as a long process – it can feel as though something is still sinking in, or hasn’t yet sunk in.

The point applies equally to habitual patterns of thought and activity, which similarly reflect how our lives are organised. When the established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning.

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little you will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply being.
There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.” You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)?

Is there anything else that you want to explore together? Is there still seeking? How is life these days?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Nobody8
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby Nobody8 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:25 am

Hi Rali,

Thank you very much for you patience and guidance. It helped me a lot to see how everything is in the reality.
Is there anything else that you want to explore together? Is there still seeking? How is life these days?
For now I just need to let everything settle and just live the life as it is. There is no seeking for me anymore. I see that there is nothing to seek and for no one to seek, everything is already here happening.
These past days I feel like everything settles little by little. Nothing has changed and at the same time it feels different. As you wrote: less judgement, less thinking.
Can I write you if I have any doubts after some time of my new settlement journey?

Thank you once again for helping 'me'.

Love,
Vitas

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poppyseed
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby poppyseed » Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:28 am

Hi Vitas
For now I just need to let everything settle and just live the life as it is. There is no seeking for me anymore. I see that there is nothing to seek and for no one to seek, everything is already here happening.
These past days I feel like everything settles little by little. Nothing has changed and at the same time it feels different. As you wrote: less judgement, less thinking.
Awesome!!!
Can I write you if I have any doubts after some time of my new settlement journey?
Of course! You can continue to write here or contact me directly.

So can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Nobody8
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby Nobody8 » Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:35 am

Hi Rali,
So can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
YES! it is absolutely clear.
We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?
Yes, of course.

Love,
Vitas

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poppyseed
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby poppyseed » Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:48 am

Hey Vitas
YES! it is absolutely clear.
Awesome stuff!!!

Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Nobody8
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby Nobody8 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:15 am

Hi Rali,
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no separate entity ‘self’ at all in any way, shape or form and there wasn’t ever.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self is, when human mind starts to think that there is a boundary between ‘me’, ‘my body’ and everything else in the surrounding world. It starts when mind begins to think that thought content is real. From our childhood parents and other people teaches us that we need to do this or that, we need to be like this or like that, behave and so on. All the time there is a focus on the word ‘You’, ‘Me’, ‘I’. That way our minds are programed to see the world through this illusion of separation.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels that there are less ups and downs and there is more calmness. Before I started this dialogue I was seeking for some kind of awakening, happiness, bliss. Now I see that there is nothing to seek because life, the reality, was always here, happening every moment. If there is happiness, or sadness, or pain, or anything – all of this is the same one movement that is happening every moment. There is no way or need to change it.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The last bit was a pointing on how to look. In my previous seeking experience, I was always taught to look inside, to look deeper, but where is that deeper nobody explained. During this dialogue I understood that I need to look to what is happening and what is real, not what it ‘feels like’. If I can see, that means there is what to see. If I can smell, that means there is what to smell. If I can find a thought arising, that means there is a thought. The main thing was to understand to not look into thought content, what I was doing 100% of the time.
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
There is no decision in the reality. Only mind reports that it made a decision. There is no way to experience decision making process in direct looking.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
There is no intention in the reality. Only mind reports that it has an intention. There is no way to experience intention in direct looking.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
There is no free will in the reality. Everything is just happening without anyone deciding or intending. There is no entity in the universe who has a free will, intend or decides anything.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Choice is a product of mind, the same as decision, intention and free will. These is no choice in the reality. If there is no thought content, there is no choice. Thought content is an illusionary thing.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
There is no control. Control is mind’s product as only a thought can tell that there is a control of something. Everything just happens without anyones control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
Everything is just happening without anyone’s control, decision, intention or free will.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I am not responsible for anything, because there is no ‘I’ who can be responsible for anything. ‘I’ is only a thought. Without a thought there is no ‘I’. A thought is not responsible for anything, because a thought can’t do anything – it is just a thought. Responsibility is also a thought.
6) Anything to add?
Thank you, Rali, once again for this guidance. So nice that I found this forum and you.

Love,
Vitas

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poppyseed
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby poppyseed » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:38 pm

Hi Vitas

Thank you so much for your beautiful answers!
We present these answers to the other guide in case there is something that we've missed. There is a question for you:
If I can see, that means there is what to see. If I can smell, that means there is what to smell.
Where is that 'I' that sees and smells?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Nobody8
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:30 am

Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby Nobody8 » Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:24 am

Hi Rali,
Where is that 'I' that sees and smells?
:) Nowhere. Seeing and smelling is just happening. It is very difficult to write from 'no self' perspective. Language is constructed the way that every action is combined with word 'I', 'me', 'you'. In reality the 'I' is just a thought. Thought cannot see or smell. Aliveness is happening through the body that 'I' used to call 'me' and it appears that this aliveness ir seeing and smelling the same aliveness (or itself) every moment. It is not so easy or even impossible to describe this. Everything is the same 'one'. Seeing, smelling and what is seen and smelled is also the same 'one'. Nothing is separate from anything. Writing of this text is also just happening. Nobody is writing and nobody is reading this. Aliveness is talking to itself :)

Love,
'Vitas'

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poppyseed
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Re: Trying to find that there is no separate "myself"

Postby poppyseed » Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Hi Vitas
Welcome home!

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

I also think that you would make a wonderful guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

Also, if you want further exploring, I'd suggest these teleconferences:
There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:
Thursday Meetings.
Hi Guys,
we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.
Here is an invitation for you:
Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
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Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
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Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
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Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate
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Write to them for the next meeting. Ilona’s is April 9th.
For Fetters:
Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks.
There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.
And Kevin Shinilac has https://www.simplytheseen.com/ but I don't think he is guiding any more, although there are instructions on his site.

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti


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