Free Mango

[Bluejay]

Excellent looking, Alf!

A grievance seems to be sensations wrapped in thoughts and more thoughts leading to more sensations and stories to keep it going….. What holds it in direct experience is belief, but is that direct experience? Or is it more thought?

A grievance is sensations + thought labeling it a grievance.

And yes, it's thought upon thoughts to keep it going.

A belief is a thought that's often deemed important by other thoughts.

You might enjoy this exercise since we're on the topic of grievances:

Memory Exercise

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

During this exercise. please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say. Focus on direct experience.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference known exactly?

Enjoy :)

[FreeAlfie]

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Memory is thoughts that are occurring now that seem to describe events of the past. They often come with sensations,images, but I’m not sensing sounds or smells.

General thoughts are random thoughts happening now they may come with sensations and may have imagery too.

A memory thought says it happened the way the images, thoughts and sensations occur in the moment. It isn’t known that it occurred that way via direct experience it’s only known by more thoughts or by seeking thoughts of others, pictures, etc.

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Future thoughts are made of imagination, images, words, more thought, sensations. They appear in the present. And, seem to reflect a place in time that has not yet happened. They can be thoughts that feel good or bad. They can be fear thoughts or planning thoughts. There is a sense of the lie feeling when thinking about them, especially the fear thoughts.

A future thought includes a reference to space or time that has not yet happened. It’s not known that it will exactly happen. It’s only by hope, wish, fear or beliefs that a Future thought creates an imagined future.

[Bluejay]

Good looking, Alf!

In direct experience, without using more thoughts to explain, is there a difference between a past thought, a general thought, and a future thought?

[FreeAlfie]

In direct experience, without using more thoughts to explain, is there a difference between a past thought, a general thought, and a future thought?

Sorry for the delay. The answer came quickly so I waited to see if it changed. It didn’t. Thoughts are thoughts only the words differ. The words convey time and place.

[Bluejay]

Sorry for the delay. The answer came quickly so I waited to see if it changed. It didn’t. Thoughts are thoughts only the words differ. The words convey time and place.

No problem. It's good that you're taking your time.

Here's the next exploration:

Observing Thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

[FreeAlfie]

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

I don’t make thoughts appear. I seem to be able to react to them or to ignore them… I can’t make another thought appear, but I can THINK that I can and via thoughts more thoughts happen but not by a me.

I don’t control where attention goes nut it seems there can be awareness of the location of attention and redirection thoughts like “ Pay attention!”

I can’t choose not to have painful thoughts or angry or judging thoughts and yet it seems like if I let go of a certain perspective about something or a negative attitude it seems like thoughts about that change on its own?

Thoughts are not ordered logically in this mind. More like a Bingo machine bouncing all over the place all at once. It’s especially rough when I haven’t slept well. Which there is also no control of.

[Bluejay]

Hi Alf!

I don’t make thoughts appear. I seem to be able to react to them or to ignore them… .

A reaction is a thought, right? If you don't make thoughts appear and you can't predict the next thought, how are 'you' reacting or ignoring something?

Did you create the reaction?

If you want to explore this more, sit for 5-10 minutes and look at what decides whether to react or ignore a thought.

I don’t control where attention goes nut it seems there can be awareness of the location of attention and redirection thoughts like “ Pay attention!”

What is awareness when you look in direct experience?

Is awareness separate from attention?

Is there a thing called awareness?

I can’t choose not to have painful thoughts or angry or judging thoughts and yet it seems like if I let go of a certain perspective about something or a negative attitude it seems like thoughts about that change on its own?

Can you decide when to let go of something, or does it just happen?

Of course there can be apparent letting go, and change can come from that, but is there a controller of that?

[FreeAlfie]

A reaction is a thought, right? If you don't make thoughts appear and you can't predict the next thought, how are 'you' reacting or ignoring something?

Did you create the reaction?

Ok, I see that there isn’t a controller of thoughts that arise, nor as thoughts that seem reactive, there’s no controller, nor a creator there’s just thought appearances.

What is awareness when you look in direct experience?

Is awareness separate from attention?

Is there a thing called awareness?

In direct experience, words fail to describe awareness.

Awareness and attention are one. Attention seems focused and concentrated or scattered and unfocused. But always aware.

Can you decide when to let go of something, or does it just happen?

Of course there can be apparent letting go, and change can come from that, but is there a controller of that?

I see that I cannot consciously decide to let go of something. I have been trying to let go of concerns I had from a group that I left in March and while most of the issues are gone some thoughts still linger. The illusion of a controller thoughts want to let go and yet they persist. Seeing that there is no one that can stop them and no one that is wrong for having or not having them is new, freeing. Hmmm…

[Bluejay]

Ok, I see that there isn’t a controller of thoughts that arise, nor as thoughts that seem reactive, there’s no controller, nor a creator there’s just thought appearances.

Yes :)

Awareness and attention are one. Attention seems focused and concentrated or scattered and unfocused. But always aware.

Could awareness and attention be made of the same substance but be described as two by thought?

What are they without labels?

I see that I cannot consciously decide to let go of something. I have been trying to let go of concerns I had from a group that I left in March and while most of the issues are gone some thoughts still linger. The illusion of a controller thoughts want to let go and yet they persist. Seeing that there is no one that can stop them and no one that is wrong for having or not having them is new, freeing. Hmmm…

Yes exactly! It simply happens.

This next exercise might help further open up this insight:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Enjoy! :)

[FreeAlfie]

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

The qualities are not chosen. They are there but there can be thoughts describing and judging them as good or bad, etc.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

No choosing or chooser just noticing of the switch in attention to counting.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

There’s no mental function choosing but thoughts can seem to narrate the choice making act.

[/In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

I’ve never looked this closely at choosing 😂. No mental function. The body is in motion ancting and thoughts narrate it. Or not.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Feelings can’t choose but it seems like it occasionally. But upon investigation it’s clear that feelings can’t choose. What an illusion.

[Bluejay]

The qualities are not chosen. They are there but there can be thoughts describing and judging them as good or bad, etc.

There’s no mental function choosing but thoughts can seem to narrate the choice making act.

And is there someone/something in control of these thoughts?

Did you think them?

Feelings can’t choose but it seems like it occasionally. But upon investigation it’s clear that feelings can’t choose. What an illusion.

Yes! What an illusion :)

[FreeAlfie]

And is there someone/something in control of these thoughts?

Did you think them?

No one or thing controls them. I didn’t think them. That’s easy to say upon slowing down to really look and yet throughout the days a sense of self can creep in. I imagine it’s repeatedly investigating the sense of the ‘lie’ as felt in the body. The illusion of self.

[Bluejay]

That’s easy to say upon slowing down to really look and yet throughout the days a sense of self can creep in.

Can you say more about when, where, and how this happens?

Is it a specific scenario or event? Can you find what triggers the sense of self?

What does the sense of self feel like?

[FreeAlfie]

That’s easy to say upon slowing down to really look and yet throughout the days a sense of self can creep in.

Can you say more about when, where, and how this happens?

I had to spend time noticing that.

I know that in my life, one place where this happens is during the night. Sometimes, like last night, I awake at around 3:30am and I find the mind is really revved up. Usually worried or having repeated thoughts that are very hard to see as not being from a self. They seem sticky and to be about or from a me. I can spend several hours trying to disengage. Sometimes it works when I shift into a state of presence. This happens without anyone doing it. And then sleep happens on its own. But, when that doesn't happen it seems as if there are two selves: the one spinning thoughts and the other trying to stop thoughts. In writing this I see that all are thoughts. Thoughts fighting thoughts without ay selves on board...

Is it a specific scenario or event? Can you find what triggers the sense of self?

What does the sense of self feel like?

I'm not quite sure the trigger or events. On the one hand it can be about a past event or in anticipation of an upcoming event one where family or other social expectations are in play. In particular one where there are people that are intrusive or bossy that I need to be able to set boundaries with. Or where I don't fully trust those I need to interact with. Sometimes it's about a movie that was intense. I try to avoid those right before bedtime.

In these examples the sense of self feels like a powerless, fearful child. Concerned about being able to take care of itself, express itself and be capable.

[Bluejay]

I know that in my life, one place where this happens is during the night. Sometimes, like last night, I awake at around 3:30am and I find the mind is really revved up. Usually worried or having repeated thoughts that are very hard to see as not being from a self. They seem sticky and to be about or from a me. I can spend several hours trying to disengage. Sometimes it works when I shift into a state of presence. This happens without anyone doing it. And then sleep happens on its own. But, when that doesn't happen it seems as if there are two selves: the one spinning thoughts and the other trying to stop thoughts. In writing this I see that all are thoughts. Thoughts fighting thoughts without ay selves on board...

Yes, great observation.

Thoughts arising, and then thoughts trying to stop the previous thoughts, and then thoughts about a self doing something.

Here's a meditation I'd like you to try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwAVOYVMac (about 15min)

If you wake up during the night, you might try it. You can also use it whenever you want. Have a look and let me know how it goes.

I'm not quite sure the trigger or events. On the one hand it can be about a past event or in anticipation of an upcoming event one where family or other social expectations are in play. In particular one where there are people that are intrusive or bossy that I need to be able to set boundaries with. Or where I don't fully trust those I need to interact with. Sometimes it's about a movie that was intense. I try to avoid those right before bedtime.

In these examples the sense of self feels like a powerless, fearful child. Concerned about being able to take care of itself, express itself and be capable.

For this fearful child, you can do Ilona's deep looking, to see what it wants to say, and then to invite it in, because it is not really a child, but often just a representation of a part of you that you haven't owned.

Ilona also has a video on trust and safety that might be interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPsehnnEk0