Continuing a journey of awakening and dropping resistance

[Jetstream]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand the idea of no-self to be the lack of separation or distinction between self and not-self, between self and other. I understand that this separation is a manufactured process, and that engaging in it is actually a continuous and unconscious choice, but this this mostly at the intellectual level and with some limited direct experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to deepen my direct experience of no-self via practice, inquiry and dialogue. I am also seeking to bring this experience into my daily life and navigate the doubts and questions that may arise as a part of that process. There are 2 main aspects of my life that create the greatest suffering in me - 1. Self-image (the strong desire to be liked and the fear of not) and 2. Resistance/inertia towards action (physical and mental both). I wish to view these same sufferings and their manifestations through a different lens of inquiry and observe the impact of such an approach.
What do you expect from a guided conversation? I hope that through my conversations with a guide I can do 2 main things:
1. I would like to go wherever the guide takes me in terms of inquiry and practice in deepening the understanding of no-self.
2. I would like to present direct examples of scenarios/dilemmas in my life that generate suffering and be offered an alternate perspective or approach to them from a no-self perspective.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating for ~4 years now. Most of my initial practice was simple breath-based anapana meditation to focus the mind. In the last year I have done a Goenka vipassana retreat and my seated practice has mostly shifted to vipassana. I have incorporated a bit of do-nothing/open-awareness meditation and noting in daily life.

Most of my spiritual practice right now still feels like it is held back by my raw focus level. from a conventional medical perspective I have ADHD and a pretty active monkey mind, so the initial stages of settling the mind in meditation itself have been challenging and continue to be so. However on the occasions where the mind does settle I notice I am able to perform inquiry or any other form of observation in depth.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[poppyseed]

Hi Jetstream
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hey Rali! You can call me Shreyash. I would love to work with you as my guide.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation.

Yes, daily conversation works for me.

What time zone are in?

I'm in IST time zone [GMT + 05:30].

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.

Yep, sounds good.

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

I'm in IST time zone [GMT + 05:30].

I'm GMT+2. There is a bit of a difference but we'll manage :)

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

I think the realization of non-separation will change how I see the thoughts and feelings that arise in my direct experience, as well as how I look at the actions and words of others. When there isn't a "me" to take so seriously anymore, I think there will natural be a reduction in the amount of thinking that is around the "me", and consequently the pain that occurs when the "me" is unfulfilled by its specific needs.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

I expect I will relate differently to the direct physical experience of suffering on the sensory level - while the magnitude of the sensations that are fed by me-driven thought may or may not reduce, I think that the need to change/control things and the resistance to what-is will reduce. As a result it would likely affect the nature of the dialogue that goes on in my mind and move it in a direction that clings less to security and reassurance or past and future.

3. What do you want not to happen?

Nothing particularly, as such. There are certain traits about myself that I am attached to at the moment, and the possibility of those specific ones changing as a result of this undertaking is something I am aware of. However I am still open to it since I realize the attachment to these traits is coming from the same ego that created and molded them anyways, so a resistance is only natural.

4. What are you hoping for?

I am hoping to gain greater (and more solidified) insight into the nature of self/no-self and reality at a direct experience level. While I have experienced brief glimpses or understandings through meditation and other spiritual practices in the past, these have been like short trailers or previews of the letting go of separation - easily undone and short-lived. I hope to gain deeper insight and understanding that carries itself into day-to-day life. In that sense, I am hoping that this journey can positively impact the areas of my life that I currently struggle with the most - namely self-worth/social interactions and energy/productivity. While I am willing to drop any expectations related to changing these explicitly along the journey, it is worth mentioning that they have been the main motivating factors behind seeking in the first place.

5. What is missing?

I am assuming this question is asking what is missing from my life or spiritual seeking currently, please correct me if I am wrong. In continuation with the previous answer, there are 2 main areas of struggle in my life that both heavily revolve around and are fueled by engagement with attachment of and perceptions of self. In terms of my current seeking, I am missing absolute regularity and dedication to regular seated meditation and inquiry. With LU and my own practice, I hope to bridge that gap through some external guidance and consistency.

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Thank you for your honesty! It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary.

Now…
If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary.

Have heard this often about seeking in general, will be keeping an eye out for when the expectations are beginning to form :)

If you look for the I, what is there?

If I look for the I in a given moment, it is usually not something physical or tangible. It seems like some form of mind-body congealment - something that isn't directly visible on its own but spawns thoughts and physical sensations from it, and when those thoughts/sensations are looked at then they seem to point to this abstract thing.
The nature of this "I" is differing based on my state of mind as well. When the mind is more restless, chaotic, or in-pain, then the sense of I is stronger (or maybe just the sensations are) and seems easier to point to. When the mind is calm and meditative, it is easier to let go of this sense of I and just "be".

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

There's an intellectual and mildly experiential acceptance of this idea, but from a pure current experience point of view there is still a sense of "but... it's right here." When you say there is no thinker, there is the sense of 'me' reading that sentence and thinking about it in order to respond with respect to 'my' experiences. When I see terms like "experiencer" or "decision maker", there seems to be an idea that there is someone or something that is doing these things, registering experiences and making decisions. When you say there is no "witness", that begs the question what is doing the witnessing right now? Forming this answer, typing this keyboard, all this physical and mental activity is clearly in existence since it is being experienced - and it feels like there is a "center" of experience that is experiencing them.

Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

I looked at both sensations appearing in the moment and thoughts forming while writing this answer. Clearly as I engage in this conversation "I" am trying to put something across to you so I tried to look at what that "I" was. Looking in that direction seemed to point to the same subtle mind-body congealment I spoke of earlier. The raw physical feeling of this is subtle, like some very minor knot - maybe vaguely located in and around the chest but I cannot be entirely sure. I also thought about some pending work related tasks I had today which aroused a little bit of stress and I tried to look at that sensation of stress and whose it was, or who was experiencing it. It pointed back to the same abstract center. As I looked longer, the thoughts and sensations around that center quieted down (and so did the process of inquiry) and it began to dissipate. But the moment thoughts began or inquiry resumed, the sense of "me" returned instantly on a physical and intellectual level.

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

Thank you! That gives me an idea where to begin. Before we start let’s just make sure that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, colour(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

The word 'apple' is a label that is given to the object. This label encompasses what I generally assume to be true about an apple. When I see one, I am able to create associations of its color, shape, taste, touch, etc. and tag them with a sound 'apple' and this sound and other thoughts about apples are experienced somewhere in my field of experience that I can't pinpoint or localize.

If I break down the individual components of what this 'apple' is, I can divide the experience into the sensory components as you have mentioned (sight, taste, etc.) As I look deeply at each individual sense or thought, the automatic process of combination and association is slowed down a bit and they are able to exist on their own without any association. The 'apple' visually simply ... is. The taste it evokes in the mouth also simply is. The word 'apple' becomes an utterance of sound that holds no inherent meaning.
All individual aspects of the apple once unlinked from one another simply exist on their own, and if I strip them away one by one then there is no apple left, the mind feels empty. It doesn't seem like there is anything else left to say about this thing - without the individual sensory components it ceases to exist (other than the awareness that I am checking on "its" existence as a part of this exercise, and so "it" still lives on in thoughts conceptually).

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

The word 'apple' is a label that is given to the object.

Good!

When I see one, I am able to create associations of its color, shape, taste, touch, etc. and tag them with a sound 'apple' and this sound and other thoughts about apples are experienced somewhere in my field of experience that I can't pinpoint or localize.

What is a sound “apple”? If anything there are taste, colour, smell, sensation labelled “apple” but is there a sound “apple”? What does an “apple” sound like?

Are you probably referring to the thought “apple”? Do thoughts speak?

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color (seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

What is a sound “apple”? If anything there are taste, colour, smell, sensation labelled “apple” but is there a sound “apple”? What does an “apple” sound like?

Are you probably referring to the thought “apple”? Do thoughts speak?

You are right, I am referring to the 'sound' of the word 'apple' that I am hearing in my head, not an apple itself. I'm not sure if I can say that the thought itself is 'speaking', more like I am considering the speaking that is already happening internally as a thought.
That thought has an auditory aspect to it in that there is a voice that says 'apple'. If a thought itself can be broken down into various aspects like the mental image of an apple vs the mental sound of the word apple, then this is the sound aspect.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Seeing a variety of cars around me while stuck in traffic, simply= image/color (seeing)
Smelling a perfume on my clothes, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the wind on my skin while riding a motorcycle, simply = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the contraction and release of leg muscles while doing physiotherapy, simply = sensation (feeling)
Hearing the trimmer near my ear while getting a haircut , simply = sound (hearing)
Noticing the flavor of a bottled water = taste (tasting)
Thought about impatience or hurry while stuck in traffic = thought (thinking)
Thought about regretting what I ate for lunch = thought (thinking)

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

Seeing a variety of cars around me while stuck in traffic, simply= image/color (seeing)
Smelling a perfume on my clothes, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the wind on my skin while riding a motorcycle, simply = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the contraction and release of leg muscles while doing physiotherapy, simply = sensation (feeling)
Hearing the trimmer near my ear while getting a haircut , simply = sound (hearing)
Noticing the flavor of a bottled water = taste (tasting)
Thought about impatience or hurry while stuck in traffic = thought (thinking)
Thought about regretting what I ate for lunch = thought (thinking)

Very good! I can see you are getting how to look. You can continue doing this exercise as many times throughout the day as you can. It could be quite helpful.

Now that you know how to look for no self, let’s start the exploration with thoughts…
For the next exercise I want you to sit somewhere quiet and observe thoughts.
A thought appears.
In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
Where do thoughts appear from? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.

Are thoughts 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

You are right, I am referring to the 'sound' of the word 'apple' that I am hearing in my head, not an apple itself. I'm not sure if I can say that the thought itself is 'speaking', more like I am considering the speaking that is already happening internally as a thought.
That thought has an auditory aspect to it in that there is a voice that says 'apple'. If a thought itself can be broken down into various aspects like the mental image of an apple vs the mental sound of the word apple, then this is the sound aspect.

So do thoughts actually have a sound? Or is the ‘voice in the head’ simply thoughts about sound?
Can thoughts be felt, smelled, tasted, heard or seen, or are they just known?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali, apologies for the delay.

In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?

There seems to be a space of awareness and a process of 'looking' that is happening. Initially there seems to be a 'looker' that shines awareness onto a thought. The process seems directional, in the sense that awareness is being brought to a thought, from something, and that "something" seems to have the agency to switch what thoughts it focuses on (but not control what thoughts come up).

Now if I look for that "something" as a AE/DE (direct experience), the only thing that is observed in response is a vague sensation that I have described earlier as sort of a bundle of sensation in the body near the chest, and it has some clouded thought/imagery attached to it. If I recursively do this and ask myself who is thinking or experiencing that, then there's a certain emptiness or silence that follows.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I did not control what came up.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? s there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?

It does not feel like I could have done anything to make something different come up at a given exact moment. But it does feel like there was some agency in choosing which thought to engage with further when there were multiple options - and that choice would determine what thoughts pop up further down the road. It felt like there was a process of "choosing" going on, and that when I got distracted there was an active "choice" being made to come back to the exercise and continue observation. But the exact content of whatever came up still feels like it would be out of my control.

However, outside of this exercise, it does feel like I can 'change' the flow of thoughts. Say if I consciously decide that "I will think about my favorite sports team now", I can begin thinking of that team from the next moment onwards.

Where do thoughts appear from? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way?

They seem to appear at random. At one point I noticed thoughts beginning to form in response to a mild physical sensation of stomachache, and the thoughts couldn't 'choose' a topic, just faintly cycling until awareness was brought to them and that stopped on its own. Besides the points where it felt like "I" stepped in to bring the exercise back on track, everything else seemed to be unfolding at random.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear.

1. What am I going to do after this exercise?
2. I could continue playing a video game that I like or I could get some work related tasks done.
3. I don't actually have much work for today.
4. Maybe I should still just do the work and finish it off first anyways, that will be good for making me more comfortable with discomfort.
5. It's nice to be back into gaming after a long time.

Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?

No, I could not. Since I was just observing with no engagement, at no point in the train of thought was I aware or certain of what would or could come next.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.

If I try to stop thinking a thought in the middle, it feels like there is some stop in momentum and the imagery or wording related to that thought stops for a second. But either it comes back quickly, or even the thought that I am trying to stop this thought contains the original thought in itself, so it is still there in a sense.

Are thoughts 100% true?

I am not sure what is meant by true. The sensory components of thoughts feel real in my experience. However I know that the content of thoughts is not always true. Very frequently the content of our thoughts is mismatched with real experience and can be a projection of hopes and fears.

What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

In moments where I let go or release any thinking that relates to an "I", usually in meditation, it doesn't feel like I am anything particularly. There is just a feeling of 'this'. For brief moments where that thought process is halted, there is just the ongoing sensory experience. However I do say 'brief' because it is rather quick and easy for the "I" to come back into that experience and evaluate it - the process of not thinking about the self doesn't last for long.

[Jetstream]

Missed replying to this section in the previous reply:

So do thoughts actually have a sound? Or is the ‘voice in the head’ simply thoughts about sound?

The word 'apple' when heard in my head is not any real sound, it is a thought about sound.

Can thoughts be felt, smelled, tasted, heard or seen, or are they just known?

Thoughts in and of themselves do not have any physically perceivable aspect, they seem to just be known. But regarding the first question of can thoughts be "felt" - the thought itself cannot be felt directly. But they seem to have the ability to immediately trigger physical sensations that can be felt.

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

There seems to be a space of awareness and a process of 'looking' that is happening. Initially there seems to be a 'looker' that shines awareness onto a thought. The process seems directional, in the sense that awareness is being brought to a thought, from something, and that "something" seems to have the agency to switch what thoughts it focuses on (but not control what thoughts come up).

Now if I look for that "something" as a AE/DE (direct experience), the only thing that is observed in response is a vague sensation that I have described earlier as sort of a bundle of sensation in the body near the chest, and it has some clouded thought/imagery attached to it. If I recursively do this and ask myself who is thinking or experiencing that, then there's a certain emptiness or silence that follows.

There is so much story (teachings) here. OK, so now look the same way like with the apple exercise. There is a thought arising, is there anything else there that could be described with the senses? You say there are sensations. Are those sensations somehow linked to the thinking or are they simply appearing together with thinking? There is aliveness, there are sensations (“heart beating”, “breathing”) but what in these sensation suggests “thinker” or a “me”?
Also when you say silence is this the lack of an answer or the fact that there is nothing separate from thought doing the thinking?

It does not feel like I could have done anything to make something different come up at a given exact moment. But it does feel like there was some agency in choosing which thought to engage with further when there were multiple options - and that choice would determine what thoughts pop up further down the road. It felt like there was a process of "choosing" going on, and that when I got distracted there was an active "choice" being made to come back to the exercise and continue observation. But the exact content of whatever came up still feels like it would be out of my control.

Seems like/feels like = thought content
Nothing in DE is “seems like” or “feels like” – it is either there or not.
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you choose to have only happy thoughts all the time? If it happens that sometimes you have happy thoughts and sometimes you have sad thoughts doesn’t this suggest that they just happen on their own?
Look at the clouds in the sky. Are they moving according to anyone's direction? How is the movement of thoughts different from the movement of clouds?

However, outside of this exercise, it does feel like I can 'change' the flow of thoughts. Say if I consciously decide that "I will think about my favorite sports team now", I can begin thinking of that team from the next moment onwards.

Again, “feels like”! Warning… here comes the thought content!:)

You say that you can choose to think about “your favourite sports team now”. Let's check this!

Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them. Repeat the experiment as necessary. Maybe repeat the questions with your favourite team vs eating chocolate. Why did you choose to think of the team? Did it come out of the blue or you planned to think of your team? Did you plan about this yesterday and you named the time and place when it will happen?
Also, it seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

They seem to appear at random. At one point I noticed thoughts beginning to form in response to a mild physical sensation of stomachache, and the thoughts couldn't 'choose' a topic, just faintly cycling until awareness was brought to them and that stopped on its own. Besides the points where it felt like "I" stepped in to bring the exercise back on track, everything else seemed to be unfolding at random.

How did you bring awareness to thoughts? Can there be thoughts without awareness? Can there be awareness without thoughts (object of awareness)? Are they separate entities? Is awareness like a container for thoughts, are there solid thoughts floating around? Can awareness see, speak, hear…? Are you awareness?

Actually this is a good time to look at the idea of focus and attention, which in this case seems kind of synonymous with your use of "awareness"

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.
Focus on focusing, attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?

What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?
Is thought in control of attention?
Are there two things – focus and objects of focus (experiencing) or one indivisible knowing_seeing_tasting_hearing_sensing_smelling_thinking (THIS)?

This video might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lm3G0_ ... ex=17&t=8s

I am not sure what is meant by true. The sensory components of thoughts feel real in my experience. However I know that the content of thoughts is not always true. Very frequently the content of our thoughts is mismatched with real experience and can be a projection of hopes and fears.

We are talking on a fundamental level. But also how many times your thought even when not checked with DE have been wrong? Back to the inquiry…Think of it in terms of the “apple” exercise. Your thought says that there is an object called “apple” with certain characteristics. Your DE says a different story – there is only seeing, tasting… labelled “apple”.
So which one is correct?

In moments where I let go or release any thinking that relates to an "I", usually in meditation, it doesn't feel like I am anything particularly. There is just a feeling of 'this'. For brief moments where that thought process is halted, there is just the ongoing sensory experience. However I do say 'brief' because it is rather quick and easy for the "I" to come back into that experience and evaluate it - the process of not thinking about the self doesn't last for long.

So basically “you” exist in thought content, right? There are sensations labelled “I”, there thoughts arising ABOUT an “I” , but an “I” isn’t actually known. It is a concept…and concepts aren’t an issue, unless they are believed.

Does the label "I" contain an actual I...does it contain an actual person?
Does the label "I" itself, suggest in any way that it is an I?
Does the label "I" know anything about an I?
What does the label "I" point to? In other words, what does the word/label "I" actually refer to?

But they seem to have the ability to immediately trigger physical sensations that can be felt.

“Seem”? We’ll put this belief to the test a bit later, as this reply grew exponentially :)
Love
Rali