There is nothing

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

There is an opportunity there to transcend or liberate that memory and that feeling.
If something like that pops up, as much as you're able, stop and bring all of your attention to it. Explore all of the nuances of physical sensation, and broadly the experience itself. With an attitude of acceptance and calm relaxation. Like a scientific observation, but without forcing the objectivity. It's being felt as something subjective, so it should be allowed on those terms.
Bear in mind, it's easier said than done! Just as best as you're able, without forcing it.

I do try to practice this, many times it seems that as soon as you relax and "look at it", the feeling will disappear. Other times its so uncomfortable to relax with it and I eat a piece of chocolate instead. I notice it's easier to relax with it during the day, if I wake up during the night and start thinking about the future or the past and get that sinking feeling, it's so hard to be with it.

Can you control the "doing it right?"
If you could "do it right", would unpleasant things never happen?

Hah! Oh my gosh No - unpleasant stuff just happens. When seeing that it feels like a caged bird was freed and I can't stop smiling..

Thank you
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Thanks for your response. Nice to hear from you.

if I wake up during the night and start thinking about the future or the past and get that sinking feeling, it's so hard to be with it.

I get that. That's ok. I wonder if rather than trying to deal with it, make a deliberation to allow it to do as it pleases. This is sort of the approach I have.
Recognising that these things arise by themselves, and have come to be experienced here (in the "Dion" space), you just take on the attitude of, "as you please", to what reality has presented you with. No preconceived strategy, plan, technique or method.
If you feel the urge to be with it, you do so. If chocolate is preferable, then chocolate it is. You're not responsible for moving the universe. Follow your whims and urges.
Whyat do you think?

unpleasant stuff just happens. When seeing that it feels like a caged bird was freed and I can't stop smiling..

Nice! :)

How did you spend the day today?
Did you feel like Jana?
If so, can you describe what it feels like to feel like Jana?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Thank you so much for continuing on with me :)

Follow your whims and urges.
Whyat do you think?

This is soo lovely.. and it's really interesting at this moment. I think I told you I live in my motorhome, I've been in the same location for the winter (seeing family and staying in warm weather) well spring is here and there is an urge to move along. Then there was a big panic about where to go and I have no plan for the summer, where will I go??! Then your recommendation arrived - follow your whims and urges. So that's my summer plan, follow my whims and urges, whereever I go, that's where I'll be. Today I tried it out a bit on a couple of small things.
Some friends asked me to dinner, I usually go because they insist and say please come with us. But my urge was not to go.. so I didn't and it was so nice to just come home and sit in the quiet and pet the dog and it felt really good in my body.
I worked a bit this morning and was on a meeting with coworkers and I had this thought "they are doing this wrong, they are wrong, here we go again with them not listening etc" and that felt really contracted in my body. These two situations allowed me to see - what I think is an understanding of what is real or true. By that I mean, my coworkers are not wrong, they are not wrong and they are not right, there are just words and my thought that it meant something felt contracted and tight, my thought I should go to dinner felt tight and contracted. Following my urge to not go to dinner and sitting with a dog in the quiet wasn't good or bad, but it just felt like, this is what is happening and it feels, light open expansive. A big storm rolled into the area ( Jana has storm anxiety) but not in this moment. The storm was not personal, there were sounds and sensations and that was it..

How did you spend the day today?

Partially answered above, meeting with coworkers, walked on the beach, assembled a bike rack, walked the dog, talked to the neighbor, typing this on keyboard while petting the dog.

Did you feel like Jana?
If so, can you describe what it feels like to feel like Jana?

When I was talking to coworkers it seemed like "jana" which is a little contracted maniac jumped into action and when it was looked at as just thoughts, there was no jana well jana seemed like a role or an actor but it didn't seem like "me". There was just sound and fingers moving on a surface and all of things happened that needed to happen complete the work.
Sometimes it seems like "I" see a little busy person, it's not really a person, it just seems like I am viewing someone else from from far away, it's not me. But then what is me? mmm I don't know I can only find sensations or just a stillness. When I'm mostly alone for the day, it feels more like things just happen, food is being made, walking is happening, occasionally those sensations in the chest arise.
Thank you for reading...
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Thanks for the response.
I'm happy to be working with you ;)

I can only find sensations or just a stillness

Can you find and bring attention to more subtle feelings that represent Jana?

Anything you find, is that feeling somehow tied in to, or incorporated with the "Jana"?

Periodically, while looking, ask what would be different were you realised? That is to say, if you were realised, how would this experience be different?

Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

sorry for the late response..

Can you find and bring attention to more subtle feelings that represent Jana?

There is a sense that there is an energy or cluster of tightness that feels like Jana. I noticed this during interactions with other people, it feels like there is something there reacting.

Anything you find, is that feeling somehow tied in to, or incorporated with the "Jana"?

Yes there is some personality or ego, these tight feelings that occur and I attribute it to Jana or maybe it's Jana's ego getting annoyed. I don't know how to answer really.

Periodically, while looking, ask what would be different were you realised? That is to say, if you were realised, how would this experience be different?

This is were expectation comes in, it's said a thousand times that expectation is the barrier, but yes if experience will not be different, then why endeavor to seek? At the same time there is a sense or understanding that it will be different AND that it will not.
thank you
jana

[Dion]

HI Jana :)

There is a sense that there is an energy or cluster of tightness that feels like Jana. I noticed this during interactions with other people, it feels like there is something there reacting.

How about feelings and senses that are more subtle than those your register when reacting to people.
Sit alone, by yourself, and look at how many feelings your can be aware of, down to the most subtle.
Also be aware of what voices you can be aware of.

Dion

[CrystalBeach]

How about feelings and senses that are more subtle than those your register when reacting to people.
Sit alone, by yourself, and look at how many feelings your can be aware of, down to the most subtle.
Also be aware of what voices you can be aware of.

I sat for about 30 minutes, there was a sensation of floating away, a vision or picture of grabbing a rope, I need to hold onto something or, or I don't know. The sensation in my chest was really uncomfortable and the voices were you need to stop this craziness? What are you doing? just go live like regular people. I just let the sensations burn and remembered the guidance to look with curiousity. There were voices of, just accept me and just love me. It came to a peak of feeling like I was cold and going to throw up. All of it was allowed, there was no running away. It seemed to subside and there were birds singing and the dog barking and cutting some melon for a snack.

Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Thanks for your response.

Sensations, a vision, a need, questions, voices, all of which were experienced and allowed. Nice.

1- When you look for the place from which you experience, what arises?
What do you experience as you are searching for the one who sees??

3- Describe the arising of theses experiences.

It feels like something hasn't been looked at long or hard enough.
Look for the root of the sense of self.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

II need to another day to sit with this, I'll write tomorrow.
Jana

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

1- When you look for the place from which you experience, what arises?

It appears as a void, a void that experiences sensations.

What do you experience as you are searching for the one who sees??

When first looking it seems like a dark empty space and frustration starts to rise as a contraction in the chest. It seems like a bouncing between stillness and sensations to thoughts about, am I doing this right.

3- Describe the arising of theses experiences.

The arising is the noticing of sensations and then thoughts about if I'm doing this. Maybe I need to sit for more than 30 minutes or so? In sitting for 30 minutes, it seems like a period of stillness and void but also a full nice spacious feeling and then after awhile a frustrated search. The picture in my mind is scanning my body - from the inside, looking everywhere.
Sigh.. just seems frustrating. There is identification with thinking, thoughts but also knowing that it seems like an actor with a personality. It seems like just doing the same thing over and over. Maybe I'm not "looking" right?

thanks
jana

[Dion]

Hello :)

Maybe I'm not "looking" right?

You're looking right.

There is identification with thinking

So there are sensations.
Are they happening by themselves?

And there is identification with thought.
Is that happening by itself?
In what way can you claim identification with thought?

Would you be interested in another video meeting? 9am my time Sunday morning would be 7am your time on Saturday night.
Keen?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi again,

So there are sensations.
Are they happening by themselves?

yes the sensations appear by themselves.

And there is identification with thought.
Is that happening by itself?

Oh yeah I suppose it is just happening.

In what way can you claim identification with thought?

Saying that I am identifying with thought is only because, there is a thought and a sensation in the body that I don't want. So then a thought says, well you must think that thought is true (identify it as "me) or you wouldn't have that sensation.

Would you be interested in another video meeting? 9am my time Sunday morning would be 7am your time on Saturday night.
Keen?

Yes 7PM Sunday is perfect.

I did sit and look for a bit last night and the experience was a big open vastness and the room's edges seemed to soften a little and the distance of objects didn't seem like the distance that is "normally percieved".
jana

[Dion]

Hi :)

It would be 7pm Saturday night, your time. Sorry, I mis-wrote. Is that time ok?

Oh yeah I suppose it is just happening.

Is "I suppose", just a turn of phrase? If not, then you need to be completely clear on that. You need to see for yourself, clearly and directly, whether it really is happening by itself or not.

there is a thought and a sensation in the body that I don't want.

"I" don't want. Where is and what is this "I".
This is something you need to look at directly.
It is not to be rationalised. You need to look at this and be very clear about what is happening.

Also, please bear in mind, for our purposes, we need to be very very succinct and precise with our language. Let's try to be as accurate as possible.

So there is still belief that thought represents 'you'.

So then a thought says, well you must think that thought is true (identify it as "me) or you wouldn't have that sensation.

So, a thought says something, and there is obviously an identification with it, or you simply wouldn't take it seriously.
Please sit passively, and resolve not to think.
What arises?
How many voices, persectives, characters and attitudes appear?

See you soon,
Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion

Yes 7 PM Saturday night works for me.

Is "I suppose", just a turn of phrase? If not, then you need to be completely clear on that. You need to see for yourself, clearly and directly, whether it really is happening by itself or not.

Yes it was just phrasing, I'll be more clear.

It's morning here so I'll sit with these today and we will chat tonight.

Jana

[CrystalBeach]

Dion,

Please sit passively, and resolve not to think.
What arises?
How many voices, persectives, characters and attitudes appear?

Three times today I sat down and resolved "not to think". The first two times the thought appeared and said "this is not working" the third time I sat down, the thoughts came again. Along with the thoughts the seeing clearly these thoughts arise :) Even with very forced effort - the thoughts will not stop!!! If there isn't so much resistance to thinking (trying not to think) the thoughts are there or not.

Thoughts of should I do this now? Now is a good time, stop procrastinating, ok starting now.
Thought = a cup of coffee sounds good.
Thought = I wonder what time the maintenance guy will come, it's hot.
Thought = Make an appointment with the dog groomer next week.
Thought= There wasn't much space between thoughts.
Sensation =air on skin
Sensation = coolness of the floor
Sensation = hearing the bird
Thought = focus on sensation seems to quiet the thoughts - that's another thought.
Attitude and perspective -are those part of the thoughts above? The thought I need to stop procastinating and do this, could be a perspective, for example?

Jana