Looking for help

[pozablo]

Got it, thanks!

[pozablo]

Sandra, it was such a pleasure Zooming with you yesterday!

A couple notes:
When speaking of the fact that Now cannot be possibly be any different from the way it is Now, I said that it is the way it is now because of the way it was just before. I won't be saying that to anyone anymore, because it's just distracting intellectual thought and therefore just noise.

Same thing goes for "no self". Just unnecessary conceptualizing.

Re contacting me in a couple days--please don't wait longer than that, but feel free to contact me before that at any time with any questions, reports, comments, etc.

Warmly,
/p

[sfranci]

I did receive the exercises you sent yesterday as well. I did it once, and I noticed that when I am watching for thoughts in order to label them, that slows the mind, and after a while, I feel pressure to think...Kind of as if I was holding my breath, and at some point, I felt like I just needed to take a breath.

I have spent moments throughout the day, pausing and asking - can this now moment be any different than it is and...
Each time I get a strong no, it's a feeling. My body tends to sway back if it's no and forward if it's a yes.

I don't get thoughts coming to try and explain why.

This shuts down the mind as much as asking the question - who is frustrated?

Right after I ask the question about the now moment, the peace lasts about a minute or so then other thoughts come in the mind.

I didn't get a chance to go out in nature as it's been raining, this weekend is suppose to be sunny so I will go out.

[pozablo]

I did receive the exercises you sent yesterday as well. I did it once, and I noticed that when I am watching for thoughts in order to label them, that slows the mind, and after a while, I feel pressure to think...Kind of as if I was holding my breath, and at some point, I felt like I just needed to take a breath.

Was there something in the exercise that suggested you should try to stop thoughts from coming?
Or was that just something you felt a need to do?

Right after I ask the question about the now moment, the peace lasts about a minute or so then other thoughts come in the mind.

Same questions---Were you expecting thoughts to stop?
Your answers may help us make a big jump forward.

I have spent moments throughout the day, pausing and asking - can this now moment be any different than it is and... Each time I get a strong no, it's a feeling. My body tends to sway back if it's no and forward if it's a yes.

That's so perceptive!

[pozablo]

Sandra, I apologize for not clarifying one of the most important thing of all.
This is not about stopping thoughts!

Neuropsychological research has shown that the average person has about 4,000 thoughts a day, and the average thought lasts about 7 seconds.

We can't stop them. Trying to stop them makes them worse; if that's what you were doing, you have seen for yourself how the pressure builds up.

With years of meditation, some people have many fewer thoughts, but that's not our purpose here.

Our purpose is for you to see personally, by watching your own mind at work, that:
1] those thoughts are just normal brain activity that goes on automatically
2] there is no "you" thinking those thoughts
3] the contents of those thoughts are the result of conditioning, and not reliable sources of information about the past, future, present, or yourself or other people,

When this is clearly seen for yourself, your attention will increasingly be free from distraction or disturbance by them so you can live more peacefully and fully in the only reality there is, which is Now.

Now cannot possibly be different from the way Now is. The more clearly this is seen, the more liberation from blame, shame, and regret, and the more fully one lives peacefully and effectively in the present moment with acceptance, compassion, loving-kindness, joy, and clarity. It's so very very nice, which is why almost everybody who sees it is motivated for others to see it. That's what all those workshops and books and videos are attempting to explain.
Everybody sees the same thing, but uses different ways of attempting to communicate it. This can lead to a deep confusion and frustration, which we call MCD (Multiple Spiritual Concepts Disorder). That's why here at LU we guide you to the experience, rather than trying to "explain" it.

Please tell me if all this makes sense.

[sfranci]

I did not have the intention to stop thoughts.
I was just noticing what happened when I asked those questions.

I was just now looking out at the nature behind my home and a bird flew by…and I noticed it could not have flown by at any other time. It happened now.
The thought then came, the misidentification of self will also fall away at the time that it does.

There is something Byron Katie says about how you can’t think your way ahead of your experience.

At this moment I still experience a separate self, I look out and I see a tree and I feel like I am looking at the tree.

I see my body and I see the tree and it seems I am here looking over there.

I accept it’s possible to experience no boundaries and no self and it is not my now moment experience.

[pozablo]

ok, thanks for the clarification.

is the feeling that something is there always correct?

[sfranci]

is the feeling that something is there always correct?

At first this question did the same thing as the other questions I have been asking and I just had silence.
Then the thought came that sometimes I feel there is something behind me but then I turn to look and there is nothing.

The thoughts that have been coming to mind are around questioning what if there is no universal/ god power that organizes all there is. Is everything that happens random?

I have an attachment to feeling like there is a god/universe that is in charge. This makes me feel like there is a Devine plan and that God /universe is pure love.
There is a protective feeling around this belief.

This belief seems to be attached to self and wants to hang on to self identity to protect this belief.

[pozablo]

Thanks Sandra.

Can you take a while to experience the feeling of aversion to relinquishing this belief?

Take all the time you need, then please tell me what words show up on their own as you do this.

/p

[sfranci]

I had the opportunity to spend time in nature today, and I sat with this belief.

What comes up is fear. The fear of aloneness.
I have practiced not needing other humans to feel safe, and I feel comfort in a divine presence of love that always loves and takes care of me.

Letting go of this belief brings up the fear of being totally alone and not being taken care of.

I sat in the middle of the forest today and I looked for the feeling of aloneness and I could not find it.

I could find the fear of a future where I am all alone but not a present feeling of aloneness.

I searched for a time when I remember feeling aloneness and no examples came to mind

I could however, list a lot of examples of when I felt the fear of being alone in the future.

I can see how this is a paradox, I want to hold on to a belief that there is a divine presence that will take care of me and I won't be alone and what is creating the fear of being alone is the mind that creates the identity with self.

[pozablo]

Wow!

[pozablo]

I am, for the moment, without words.
Just happiness.

[pozablo]

when you sit in the same way with the feeling of a self, what words/memories/thoughts come up related to believing that feeling means there really is a self that others see, and is responsible for the thoughts/impulses/feelings that affect you?

[sfranci]

I can’t find feeling of a self.
I am sitting under a tree and I see the nature around me, I smell the trees, I hear the birds.
Which one is the self? Is the self the collective awareness?

This question stumped the mind because it was searching for a feeling of self and could not get passed this part of the question.

Then the memories came in from times that other people gave me compliments on how I looked or what I did, that tells me they saw a self.
These are thoughts and memories.

Is the self responsible for thoughts/feelings?

How can the self be responsible for thoughts and feelings?
That seems like an oxymoron since the self identify is created by thoughts so thoughts can’t be the self.

This exercise felt very intellectual.

If I just sat with it, i would get silence and no response to the question.

[pozablo]

Are you saying that other than as the content of thoughts, there is no self?

Please just take a wild guess...about what percentage of self-thoughts involve other people in one way or another?