ready to burn

[I am]

U am testing...this is really good exercise...need more time and will report tomorrow

[cosmiK]

Janna,

Good. Also SEE, that it is not an exercise at all.

This Always Is.

And we can talk about it as 6 sense streams. We can call it Experience, and there are Thoughts about it, which is also Experience.

BUT... don't listen to a random nutter on the internet who claims to have realized something... SEE and LOOK for yourself.

Report back when you have had a chance to SEE this Clearly.

[I am]

my experience of using 5 senses( seeing,feeling,hearing,tasting and smelling) seem very different from the thinking which is either thinking about what is here or abstract thinking . When using my senses without thought I experience just being.The though seem to cut through the experience and I think about what I experience about instead being and experiencing.
Today I will have more time to fully explore the experiencing life or should I omit "I" OUT OF EXPERIENCING?

[cosmiK]

Janna,

GOOD. You are doing the work, and SEEING is happening.

You are seeing that there is ONLY Experience, and thoughts about it, which is ALSO EXPERIENCE. There is ONLY Experience. PLEASE CONFIRM 1 MORE TIME?

"being". It's a nice label. But notice it is a LABEL, and a THOUGHT. a good one, but notice.

thinking is fine. don't fight thinking. SEE that oh, there is a THINKING, oh ... SEEING ... oh .... FEELING ..... oh .... SMELLING .... oh THINKING ... Just SEE and LOOK (as in be aware of these sense streams).

Today I will have more time to fully explore the experiencing life or should I omit "I" OUT OF EXPERIENCING?

Janna... GOOD.

Let's take this a step further.

So Janna, now that we have established a method for us to both look at experience together. We both have these 6 sense streams operating constantly to create our Experience. Now that we can agree on this, we can investigate the illusion.

So Janna… LOOK right NOW, in your Direct Experience!

Where is Janna? Can you locate this Janna? Find this Janna for me please. Where is this "I"? Where i this "me"? Write out how you find this Janna, or this "I".

feel free to just stand up, maybe walk around, sit, move around, and just LOOK, just SEE.

Keep LOOKING, Keep SEEING, Keep as you said, Experiencing... and answer my question. What is your Report?

[I am]

I am reporting from experience......keeping the focus on experience is definetely changing how life is .
As I go through my day I practice identifying all 6 ways to experience but thought is still the most dominating one
the question comes up " who is watching the experience?" Its good the word "being "is not used here....this word has been overused in all my spiritual pursuits.

now to aswer

where is Janna

can you locate this Janna

Its not in the experience,can't be experienced...its is an abstract,thought created entity ....there are moments when this can be seen clearly and it feels like everything moves in slow motion,even my breath slows down.
But the moments come and go....the mind relentlesly comes back with another story about"Janna" the feeling of loss and sadness with the illusion lived for lifetime,mind wants to hold on and will not let go

Find this Janna for me

there is an experience of the body experiencing world and than thoughts that paint very convincing picture of who she is......over and over.....
So to just clear this up....there is no"me" that lives this life as separate
But how I stop the thoughts of "me' or just watch the thoughts without giving them validity...
This seem to drain my energy ...its easier when I am alone and no people to reflect"me"
FROM WHAT i HEAR ON LU THE PROCESS SEEM SO EASY.......NOT MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR

thank you for your help in this process
J.




T

[cosmiK]

I am reporting from experience......keeping the focus on experience is definetely changing how life is .
As I go through my day I practice identifying all 6 ways to experience but thought is still the most dominating one

Yes... can we try a different approach. Instead of 'trying' and 'practicing', could you see that SEEING and LOOKING and Experiencing is just happening without any thing, any one, any effort?
And Yes, thoughts can be persistent. You can just gently notice that they are thoughts and let yourself Experience.
It seems you are really fighting (It could be my perception). Are you running from anything? What if I were to tell you that this isn't possible for you to see... that you will NEVER Awaken? What comes up? If there is some feeling or pain that needs your attention... give it that Loving-Kindess... give it that Attention. This DOES NOT mean get in to THOUGHT-STORIES... it just means to Allow, to Feel, to Let. No engagement, but full Attention.

the question comes up " who is watching the experience?" Its good the word "being "is not used here....this word has been overused in all my spiritual pursuits.

"Being, presence, awareness, consciousness" sometimes refers to that sense of Aliveness or "I am". This is not to be identified or made in to something special. It's just a part of Experience. Sometimes people use a model of 7 streams and add "Presence or Intuition" or whatever as a 7th. It doesn't matter. Either way, it isn't personal, and it isn't a 'me, self, i'.

What often happens is, we take Experience, and we divide it. This might be of some help to you and will give you something to focus on:

We can explore how we divide and conceptualize Experience:

So take the 'mind'. This is usually taken as some sensations and thoughts. usually sensations around the 'head' and 'thoughts. Some say, well my mind is in my 'head' and 'it's full of thoughts and imagination'. They also speak of this thing that think is real called 'the brain' (lol... i cannot find it right now... can you?) :-)

So take 'body'. We refer to certain sensations, primarily tactile, kinesthetic and hot/cold/pressure/etc. From a young age we are taught how to label these sensations in to a 'body' and then also further taught to label 'body parts' such as 'leg, hand, head, foot, tongue, finger'. We further assume that the body is a 'center' where the sense streams are 'received' and 'perceived'.

So take 'external world'. We usually take whatever is left over from the first 2 labels, and say that is the outside world of objects, things, people, places, planets, galaxies, tooth fairies and smurfs.

So now take 'myself'. We usually take the first 2 of these labels (body + mind), and add feelings, and a sense of aliveness/being, and then we refer to this as 'myself', a myself which is separate from the 'external world'.

So just CHECK and LOOK in your direct Experience how these are constructed in the moment. Deconstruction is a useful process as well... and we can deconstruct any 'object'.

Then CHECK and LOOK to see if there is any actual and real separation between all of this. Is the 'body' separate from the 'external world'? Is 'myself' separate from 'what is seen'? Could it be that it is only separate in THOUGHT? Could it be that there is a seamless Experiencing just happening?

Its not in the experience,can't be experienced...its is an abstract,thought created entity

Yeah, Good... "i, me, Janna, myself, self, separate self, you" are basically just LABELS/THOUGHTS that we put on Experience... right? Check this for yourself. It's very useful for communication and navigating the world. But when we define Reality... then there is Suffering. Check this for yourself.

But the moments come and go....the mind relentlesly comes back with another story about"Janna" the feeling of loss and sadness with the illusion lived for lifetime,mind wants to hold on and will not let go

Yes Janna... Good. But keep checking. Is there a thinker of thoughts? Are these thoughts arising to anyone? Is there a feeler of these feelings? Are these feelings arising to anyone? You have these basic angles of CHECKING which we have discussed... use them and take your investigation in to the present moment, in to direct Simple Experiencing.

there is an experience of the body experiencing world and than thoughts that paint very convincing picture of who she is......over and over.....

I understand, but is this Real or is this another STORY which combines some intense feelings, sensations and other thoughts?
When these THOUGHTS and STORIES arise.....
ASK...
"IS IT True ???"

But how I stop the thoughts of "me' or just watch the thoughts without giving them validity...
This seem to drain my energy ...its easier when I am alone and no people to reflect"me"
FROM WHAT i HEAR ON LU THE PROCESS SEEM SO EASY.......NOT MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR

WHO is going to stop thoughts? When thoughts and stories are energized/believed/struggled-against, they gain momentum and they will keep going and going and going.....

Is it possible for you to SURRENDER Janna? Completely? Could you accept that this war with THOUGHTS can NEVER be Won? What comes up?

Perhaps you should just let yourself be completely be beaten by these thoughts, feelings... just give up, open your arms and say "Do your worst!!!!!! I'm done fighting, I'm done". Then... see how much power these thoughts have. If there is in fact noone there, then who is being affected... who can be affected? Is it perhaps there is just a seamless Experience that is constantly conceptualized, and reinforced by affective emotions and cognitive reactivity?

Comparing your STORY about an Experience to another STORY (about "Liberation Unleashed"... whoever and whatever that is) is not skillful. Do you see how you are creating Expectations? Do you see how you are resisting What-Is?

Please contemplate these two words FULLY, and continue with the inquiries I have given you above.

Expectations.

SURRENDER.

Look forward to your next response.

[I am]

Thank you Cosmik for the depth of the inquiry you present to me....This will take time to truly penetrate
just one advise brought tears

To be beaten by these thoughts and feelings

.....this is exactly my experience now feeling broken down,grinded by the mind,s relentless chatter.
I keep saying over and over"I AM DONE"
I want to take time with your questions
to be continued.......

[I am]

CosmiK
you gave me a lot to look it....

It seems you are really fighting

Are you running from anything?

What came up for me was the question "can I trust this process or will this be another dead end"
WOW......I will allow this to sink in,no story.
The second question

..what if I were to tell you...that you will NEVER awaken?

my reaction is there is no separate "me" to awaken,but there are many years of searching for awakening except it was exactly the illusional "me" that was searching.....this is just overwhelming......sadness comes up
I need to fully experience this ,see it fully
on one hand years of searching...on the other the simplicity of LU approach and how can I trust this
You gave me a lot to explore in just this one paragraph
thank you
to be continued.......
Janna

[cosmiK]

Janna, thoroughly go through what we have gone through so far, especially my last post to you. Please do not write back till you feel like you have given it all you can. I am expecting a breakthrough when I speak to you next :)

[I am]

CosmiK
I am writing because I need a point of reference to what is being experienced in the last 24 hours. I know you said not to write until I have a breakthrough but here it is.
Something have changed in the experience....as I commited to giving my best and focusing on these two words
EXPECTATIONS
SURRENDER
Out of total despair and giving up there was an experience of a bubble bursting and sense of expansion that's hard to describe and the self kind of became everything.I remember touching my hand to check if its there and it was. Since than there is experience of lightness,peace,looking at everything with great enjoyment,not getting upset or judging people or looking at myself and wanting to change something and on and on......It was not something grand and all encompassing like some of the drug experiences I have had it is kind of nothing experience just going through life.Your guiding me to drop expectations certainly helped to kind of just be and experience what is. Now 24 hours later its still the same experience.
OK here it is...please help to clarify what's going on here...sorry I am not answering the last questions you gave me but I looked at all the questions and answered them but at this time I just want to explore THIS.
thank you so much
Janna

[cosmiK]

Janna,

do you exist?

[I am]

no Janna does not exist as she used to.....I can say she was a mind created entity ,now it feels like the burden of self no longer has to be carried around.I can only speak of NOW experience.

[cosmiK]

did Janna, the self, ever exist?

is there a separate self anywhere at all, ever? will there ever be?

[I am]

Did Janna,the self ever exists?

from my experience today I say no.....what I see are stories,thoughts,ideas,beliefs, drama......all accumulated over the years.

Is there a separate self anywhere at all,ever? Will there ever be?

The experience of oneness is real....the thoughts are what separates self from flow of life. Life from now will reveal the answer to the last question...I will not second guess if the contracted self will appear again but seeing the illusion will not go away.

[cosmiK]

The experience of oneness is real....the thoughts are what separates self from flow of life. Life from now will reveal the answer to the last question...I will not second guess if the contracted self will appear again but seeing the illusion will not go away.

Even if the 'self' were to appear again, would there ever be an actual self, ever?


So far, from our process, what is your understanding of a 'self,i,me,myself,you'?


Are there anymore doubts Janna?