Faroese, living in Denmark trying to wake up :)

[Andras]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand it as there is no person inside of me controlling my thoughts ect.
When this is seen there is an intimacy with what is.
We often jump to the conclusion that because there is thought, there is a thinker ect.

What are you looking for at LU?
I hope LU can help me see the "no inherent self" more clearly and more stable :)
I have glimpses every day, but I look for a more permanent shift.
I know through letting go that this is possible. So a guiding towards a more abiding knowing of no self.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I haven't tried being guided in inquiry before.
But I hope that I'll be guided to see through some of my unconscious beliefs, that are clouding me from seeing more clearly how life is me instead of me having a life.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I meditate shortly every day. Often in combination with inquiry.
I've been looking for

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like. Maybe we can help.

Seeing can come & go as we adjust to what is true. Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4


One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Andras]

Dear Stacy
Thank you for helping me.

I really like your directness and no avoidance here attitude. So I would love to have you as my guide.
I will post every day. I am writing a journal already to help this process, so this can just replace that.

Since I am a divorced father with 4 kids. I can’t always know what precise time I’ll be posting my answers.

The time zone in Denmark is GMT +1

My name is Andras, so I’m fine with you calling me that.

How will life change?
I believe that my life will change for the better. Life will flow more easily through and life will become more enjoyable. It will probably look the same but the experience is going to be different.

How will you change?
I’ll be more capable of containing the complexity of life. I’ll be free of several standards of living. I will be able to become more helpful without the neediness of making a difference for my own sake.
I will lose a lot of beliefs.

What will be different?
The perception is going to be different. There is not going to be a subject - sense - object relationship. But more of a life living itself as me.

What is missing?
What is missing is a shift and a stop in the searching process.

I have had a lot of different views on awakening since I six years ago read The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle. But I’m starting to realize that most of them are fantasies. One of those fantasies is that I am going to become a teacher. But thankfully that one is fading away.

I believe that what you are pointing to is what most of us are looking for, but can’t find because of our beliefs about life instead of just being with whatever is.

Thank you for taking time to go through this process with me 🙏

Looking forward to it

Lot of appreciation.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Andras.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

This is important because I answer from my phone.

Thank you,

[Andras]

Ok
I will do every time from now on 👍

[Andras]

Can you read my post even though I haven’t used quotes this time or do you want me to change my post?

[Anastacia42]

I thought I did. Hmm, I'll have to write it out again.

[Anastacia42]

Your expectativas are mostly reasonable.

Now what comes up when is read that there is no separate "self," never has been, never will be? That it is all a made up story?



Much love,

[Andras]

Now what comes up when is read that there is no separate "self," never has been, never will be? That it is all a made up story?

That sounds true to me.
To me it seem like I have several ways to experience this separate self or "me" or an "I".
One way is the word I. But I am not the letter or word I. It's just a word.
Another way is an image of myself in different situations. Like a 3rd person view of me, but if that is me, then who is the one looking.
A third way is a felt sense of myself. But I don't think that is experienced by it self, only combined with the other two ways.

I feel like the identification with the self is led by strong emotions from past experiences, and because that is what we are taught from birth.

I see that the I is a belief. The letter or the I can't contain what is going on here. It's just language labeling experience and believing the labeling more than the experience.

A thought caught me today and that was that it takes effort to maintain the I. But what is here without any effort?
What is effortlessly seeing all the effort.
I sense that there is something to be seen here.

[Andras]

And thank you for your question :)

[Anastacia42]

Good. Yes, it does take effort to maintain the illusion of a separate self.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Andras]

Thank you for your question and you pointers 🙏

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I think I know the difference. I sense that there is a big difference in how it feels to actually look and to think about it. My initial reaction is to think about it, but I have to stop and pay attention and actually look to really see.
Everything is a bit more real when I actually look, and it feels a bit like lying when I label my experience.
Sometimes when I am with my kids I stop and really look and it feels so fresh and like really seeing them for the first time.
And as I understand it that's the way of looking is to be applied when looking for the separate self in my own experience.

Yesterday while I was writing to you I asked if it was the "I" that was writing. And it wasn't. The I was just a thought.
Now I am writing again asking the same question and that question seems to pull presence forward. A moment to moment experience of the writing. It feels like something I sometimes call a meditation state.

I can sense something in me, that is trying to pull my experiences in a direction of all the books and language that I have read since I started chasing awakening. The story is that I know what this is supposed to look like
But I seem to intuit that the way out is not to argue with it, but staying in the seeing, hearing, feeling ect.

Am I making sense?

Thank you for your guidance 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

All of this thinking and analysis is taking you further and further from where you want to go. It's best if you just follow and do the exercises.

Here is the next one:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Andras]

Good Morning, Stacy

Good morning,

All of this thinking and analysis is taking you further and further from where you want to go. It's best if you just follow and do the exercises.

Thank you for pointing me to where my misunderstandings are. If I had been doing it right I'd been awake by now 😉

Okay. This is new to me. Staying so on point to the sensing.

While writing on this text:

Hearing: Sounds are coming from the tv. My boys are playing playstation. Sounds of people shouting loudly. I hear the computer keyboard. My sons are talking.
Feeling: My hands are touching my computer. Feeling my computer with my hands. My hands feel dry against the metal case of my laptop. My lips feel dry. My scalp itches a bit.
Seeing: Looking at the screen of the computer. Letters are black on a white background. I see the picture of a lake, and trees, and a sunset on the webpage Liberation Unleashed.
Tasting: I can still taste a bit of chili from dinner, where we had durum kebab. My mouth tastes a bit meaty.
Smelling: I don't smell a thing.

Writing this while noticing what I am sensing feels like meditation.

Am I getting this practice right?

[Anastacia42]

Mostly.

Try reversing them.

The experience first, then which Direct Experience sense. One per line.

That may feel different.

You're not searching for examples of each one. You're having whatever experience you're having & noting the Direct Experience. DE is what is but content of thought.

You're learning to distinguish between DE & content of thought.

Please do a few more, then we'll move on.

Much love,