Hoping to experience world as it is

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana

Can you look does a thought have a substance?
What is it made of?
Does it have a smell or a taste?

I'm glad you asked this, during the group meeting when the subject of thoughts came up, and that thoughts are really there, but the content is not true, I was thinking that some experience has been that thoughts don't really exist at least in the sense that they don't have any substance. They don't have a smell, taste, and not even an image most of the time, it seems. They might have imagined sound, but it's not a real sound.. sometimes it seems only as much as a suggestion, or assumption, not even a word, like the idea that there is someone behind movements of body.

Thank you so much... looking forward to the interview this weekend! and 9 pm bulgarian time for her zoom meetings seems perfect for me!

Much Love,
Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

I'm glad you asked this, during the group meeting when the subject of thoughts came up, and that thoughts are really there, but the content is not true, I was thinking that some experience has been that thoughts don't really exist at least in the sense that they don't have any substance. They don't have a smell, taste, and not even an image most of the time, it seems. They might have imagined sound, but it's not a real sound.. sometimes it seems only as much as a suggestion, or assumption, not even a word, like the idea that there is someone behind movements of body.

oh, lovely! Yes, an assumption doesn't mean that there is someone or something there, right? :-)

Let's stick with thought and their content a little bit more

Notice do thoughts about a soup or a yogurt for example create worry or restlessness?

Notice the thoughts for soup and about tomorrow or "what shall I do"are different thoughts? Or they are one and the same thoughts but topic/content is different?

What do you find?

Much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,

Notice do thoughts about a soup or a yogurt for example create worry or restlessness?

Not the thought itself, but thoughts that attach to those thoughts, like "I shouldn't eat more food" can create worry or restlessness due to relationship to food.. But those are more ideas of what will happen in the future and an idea of being able to or responsible to control that.

Notice the thoughts for soup and about tomorrow or "what shall I do"are different thoughts? Or they are one and the same thoughts but topic/content is different?

I don't think I understand this question. Looking, it seems i can't really find a thought to compare if it's the same or different to another thought. I guess when "yogurt" is said, there's a slight image of the yogurt containers in my fridge, but 'what will I do tomorrow" doesn't havnu q image with the question. But I think I don't understand the question.. Can you explain more?

Thank you!

Love,
Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

Notice the thoughts for soup and about tomorrow or "what shall I do"are different thoughts? Or they are one and the same thoughts but topic/content is different?

I don't think I understand this question. Looking, it seems i can't really find a thought to compare if it's the same or different to another thought. I guess when "yogurt" is said, there's a slight image of the yogurt containers in my fridge, but 'what will I do tomorrow" doesn't havnu q image with the question. But I think I don't understand the question.. Can you explain more?

Oook.Let's try something else.
Let's look at the idea that thoughts have a meaning?
Notice whole this without an idea that any thought has a meaning?

Try to spend a day (or half of a day like that)
Play with this :)


Much love and see you later.
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,

I just listened to your new video about resistance, and reminded me about the resistance to come and answer this question and that there have seemed like good reasons not to answer earlier .. The idea was that it is a good question, and you had said to stay with it for a day or so, but the more days that went by the more I even forgot what the question was exactly.
So it is the time for a intensive looking with the computer.

Oook.Let's try something else.
Let's look at the idea that thoughts have a meaning?
Notice whole this without an idea that any thought has a meaning?

Try to spend a day (or half of a day like that)
Play with this :)

It seems as soon as I try to look at the thought and the meaning, they evaporate so much that it can't even be looked at.. Just now the thought, "it can't even be looked at," is followed by a thought "That's probably just an excuse" But it seems to take another thought to give an illusion of a meaning, maybe? I thought during the week about in the past, looking up a word I didn't know in a dictionary (before you just looked up words online) and sometimes the definition would be another word that I also didn't know the meaning of.. Even then there had to another thought attached for the first to have what seems like "a meaning".
there is a thought, there is something, there is existence, "I am" or "this is" but there is no knowing what that means..

Ok, will submit now.

Much Love,
Lila

[Luchana]

Hi dear Lila,

I just listened to your new video about resistance, and reminded me about the resistance to come and answer this question and that there have seemed like good reasons not to answer earlier .. The idea was that it is a good question, and you had said to stay with it for a day or so, but the more days that went by the more I even forgot what the question was exactly.
So it is the time for a intensive looking with the computer.

:-) I'm so glad!

I thought during the week about in the past, looking up a word I didn't know in a dictionary (before you just looked up words online) and sometimes the definition would be another word that I also didn't know the meaning of.. Even then there had to another thought attached for the first to have what seems like "a meaning".
there is a thought, there is something, there is existence, "I am" or "this is" but there is no knowing what that means..

the example with the dictionary is great!

Look at the similar way ALL thoughts about the self, me and explore:

Are they true? What 's real about them?

What is real in the thought about me.
The fact that there is a me?
Or that there is a thought about me?

Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

our last meeting as we spoke I'm writing to ask -

Are you ready for the final questions?
Are there any doubts?
Is there something more you would like to look at?

Sending much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,

Are you ready for the final questions?
Are there any doubts?
Is there something more you would like to look at?

Yes I'm ready for the final questions

yes, there are some doubts that I am ready, thougths comparing "my" experince against what other people (or other thoughts) say so I can't be ready.. but there's a sense that that doesn't matter.

There isn't anything that seems like it needs to be looked at right now

Thank you, Luchana!

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

yes, there are some doubts that I am ready, thougths comparing "my" experince against what other people (or other thoughts) say so I can't be ready.. but there's a sense that that doesn't matter.

I am smiling :-) Yes, it matters not.

Here are questions, do not rush, take as much time as it needed. Spend time with each question and reply from experience of how it is seen now, fresh, fresh.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate "me" is, when it begins, and how it works from your own experience.

3) How does it feel to see this?

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5a. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
5b. What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Sending much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,



There is no separate entity called Me, I or Self, only thoughts that say that there is a me, and there has only ever been the thoughts about a self/me/I. There is no separate I that knows the thoughts. The awareness of thoughts and thoughts aren't separate so in a way the thought only knows itself.

Explain in detail what the illusion of the separate "me" is, when it begins, and how it works from your own experience.

. I don't know how it begins, I can only assume that somehow a baby learns that they are separate from the world. and is told that they are doing things and can do right or wrong things. And that they are responsible for what they do right or wrong.. And when the body does some action, they are told it is something called 'you' doing that.. so eventually the thoughts say I did this, even though thoughts can't do anything.

3) How does it feel to see this?

It seems like some relief, that this idea of "I" or "You" can't do anything wrong or right, and so was never responsible. The thoughts can make up stories about why maybe they did what they did based on thought trains, but it seems that could just be a good story to add to what a body already did, or thoughts can't prevent it from doing even when they are saying "Oh, I have to stop"

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

the questions are still coming but much less and don't seem so important. There isn't really suffering now, there are moments of unpleasant sensations that a thought does not like but even those now there's less fear that they will last for long or be intolerable. There's more sense that they are feeligns that just have to come out, not be stopped. Thoughts still say something like "Oh no" when a feeling rushes in, but there's no longer trying to manage it or "sit with it".. they go away on their own, apparently.

Ok, i will submit now because I may be starting to fall asleep.. (hopefully because it is 5:30 am and I haven't slept yet! )

Thank you Luchana!

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

Thank you for your beautiful replies!

I'm waiting the rest of them when you are ready :-)

Much love,
Lichana

[Lila61]

Hello Luchana,

Yesterday there was more experimenting that I will maybe write an email about before we meet on Tuesday, but during that experiment it was very clear that there is nobody anywhere here or behind any of the faces. That what is behind the faces is the same behind all faces, and it's not something but it not nothing really.. i don't know what it is. "Just this" It seems strange that before that there wasn't really an understanding of what somebody or nodody even means to say that there is nobody or somebody, but yesterday it was just no question, there is nobody.. and still there is the same sense.

And right now I can say without doubt that there is no me, no self, no such thing at all. I can't say for sure the doubt won't come back and that there may again feel like there is a me, I don't know.. But yesterday also was a lot of apparent energetic release, laughing and crying, yawning and yawning, coughing, and more laughing and crying, like a roller coaster.. but it was all very funny. And seeing that there is nobody in the people that I love, as well as the people that i felt that i really hate.. nobody to hate and nobody hating, but stilll happening somehow! Which was also very funny, and is still funny! But it seems that it's more of an energy that is "hated" , that energy of knowing and sense of superioty and arrogance, and rejecting others that don't agree. But it also was clear that there Has been identifying faces with "someone" .. I also recognised that there's nobody behind Luchana or Lubos faces and voices, either love anyway!

Ok, back to the other questions... I won't rewrite what I wrote before..

So now I could say that the last bit that made me look is that experience last night which was much more intense than before, and so much emotion release.. Now there doesn't seem to be any explanation of what the sense of me is/was .. it's just not here, and now it seems that it wasn't ever here, but I can't be sure about that, I can only be sure about now.

Also the feeling of wanting to laugh feels very jmuch the way River laughs, like for no real reason, there's just FUNNY, but not really a logical explanation for what is funny.

5a. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
5b. What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Decision and intention are illusions, I guess, narrating what is going to happen and what is already happening, like a sports commentator saying predicting what players are going to do, (which is hilarious they are so often wrong from what i remember of watching sports) and the decision part is when it's already happening thoughts saying "I decided to do that".

There is no free will because there is no choice in what desires, likes and dislikes happen.. like someone can say I can read a book if I want to, i have free will, but there is no free will in whether the idea to read a book comes up.. or if the thought is appealing or not appealing. There can be explanation taht there's no free will because there's nobody to have free will, but that seems too complicated .. and there would also have to be choices to have free will, and all of it is meaningless.
Nothing makes things happen, i could say freedom makes things happen, but that's just kind of a poetic idea. Things just happen.. There's no THING called Freedom that can make anything happen.. which IS the freedom.. paradoxical.. Jibberish

There is no personal responsibilty, there's only what already happened, and if anyone is responsible then everyone is responsible because it's all the same nobody/energy/ behind every action, so if anyone is to blame it's just that energy. Which is also pretty funny.. and I don't have any idea what is funny about it! Maybe because that energy has no idea what it's doing, it's funny that it would be blamed.

An example.. hm, only recent I can think of is that yesterday I ate a lot lot lot of food after there had been a plan/intention and judgement that I don't like how I look, I am way too fat, I have to stop eating so much.. blah blah blah.. But I ate a Lot of food which tasted very good, and there was very little guilt . Today there was still a plan to not eat too much, but there is less sense of it mattering, I'm not aware of a sense of guilt or shame about it. There was a sense of responsibilty and blame/fault for eating due to conditioning, etc.. Same with having my house be very messy, there was a feeling of overwhelm to clean it up, and worry that it's too much and I can't do it, but then the house started cleaning itself, not because of guilt, it just started happening. It didh't contintue too long, there's still a desire for it to be clearn, but less sense of responsibitity and blame.

I don't know if this is a result of seeing that there is really no one. No one seeing that there is no one.

Nothing else to add, except that it's just very laughing baby kind of funny!

Thank you so much, Luchana!

Much much LOVE!
Lila








.

[Luchana]

Thank you Lila

And right now I can say without doubt that there is no me, no self, no such thing at all. I can't say for sure the doubt won't come back and that there may again feel like there is a me, I don't know.. But yesterday also was a lot of apparent energetic release, laughing and crying, yawning and yawning, coughing, and more laughing and crying, like a roller coaster.. but it was all very funny. And seeing that there is nobody in the people that I love, as well as the people that i felt that i really hate.. nobody to hate and nobody hating, but stilll happening somehow! Which was also very funny, and is still funny! But it seems that it's more of an energy that is "hated" , that energy of knowing and sense of superioty and arrogance, and rejecting others that don't agree. But it also was clear that there Has been identifying faces with "someone" .. I also recognised that there's nobody behind Luchana or Lubos faces and voices, either love anyway!

I am laughing with you :-):-) Yea, only love, ever love.

Lovely to read your replies.
Will going to share them with the other fellow guides and will come back here again.
This make takes little time.

Sending much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Lila.

there are few questions regarding thoughts and body..
Can you look and reply from experience of those:

The awareness of thoughts and thoughts aren't separate so in a way the thought only knows itself.

Can a thought know something or another thought? Can a thought speak?

Also here:

And when the body does some action, they are told it is something called 'you' doing that...

and

"... but it seems that could just be a good story to add to what a body already did, or thoughts can't prevent it from doing even when they are saying "Oh, I have to stop"".

Is it the body which does things?

Does the body independent thing with free will and intention to do something?


What do you notice?

Much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,

Can a thought know something or another thought? Can a thought speak?

Darn, I want to say the right answer, but I want to say that a thought can only know itself, (the one thought that is NOW) It seems like the experience IS that the thought knows itself, and logically i can argue that since a thought is only made of "knowing" (or awareness), it can't be separate from Awarness, so it has to be the same thing.. Because a thought is only awareness of a thought. There is no separation.. But if that is true then a sound also must know itself, there is no separate knower of a sound.. or a color must know itself, becasue each are only made of the knowing/awareness of them. Is there anythnig separate from a sound that knows it.. But a thought can't know another thought, it can only know itself, it is immediately knowing itself. But the thought isn't separate from knowing. I feel like if I say something else it would just be try to get it right, but that isn't the experience now.

A thought can't speak. A thought can't do anything.

s it the body which does things?

Does the body independent thing with free will and intention to do something?


What do you notice?

I looked at this question off and on the last few days, and if the meaning of "do things" implies intent and free will, then no. It seems to act like a machine based on programming. But on a more experental lvel, the body is only sensations and sensations don't do anything.

Oops I think I am falling asleep... or sleep is coming on it's own.