Freedom from suffering

[Gman]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? From reading - there is no self. Self only exits in my thoughts. The "me" I have come to know is really nothing.
What are you looking for at LU? Guidance at being at peace. I have tried a number of methods to end the suffering and be at peace. There have been glimpses of peace, but it does not stay. A day or two and I'm back to suffering.
What do you expect from a guided conversation? I don't want to have any expectations. If I set expectations for a guided conversation, I would be setting myself the self up for suffering. I'm guessing they would change from conversation to conversation.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Started meditating about 4 years ago. I have used mindfulness, body scanning, awareness, "headless" and other practices. I found out about this way and web site while watching a video.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Lubo]

Hi Gman,
Welcome to the forum.
I read your intro and I know very well what you mean by using the word suffering.
My name is Lubo and It will be joy to walk with you on this journey, if you are OK?
What name you prefer to call you?

Here it is first questions
Please pay attention to what the sensation consists of? Who or what did it?
What thoughts are made of? Who or what is made it?
Describe suffering? What it is made of? Who or what is made it?

Thank you,
Lubo

[Gman]

Hi Ludo,

Yes, it is ok and welcomed you offer to walk with me on this journey. Thank you.

What name you prefer to call you?

- Gman is fine

Please pay attention to what the sensation consists of?

The sensation I just experienced was made by feeling. I placed my fingers on an object that my mind wanted me to identify as a desk

Who or what did it?

The nerves did the sensations, but my mind based on thoughts (from past experiences) wanted to tell me it was a desk

What thoughts are made of? Who or what is made it?

Thoughts are made of just- thoughts. The who or what is in my mind.

Describe suffering? What it is made of? Who or what is made it?

For me, suffering is thoughts that cause emotions to occur. The suffering is triggered/made of random thoughts that have no value. Something in my mind makes the thoughts - I don't know why.

[Lubo]

Hi Gman,

Yes, it is ok and welcomed you offer to walk with me on this journey. Thank you.

Nice. Thanks for the reply

The sensation I just experienced was made by feeling. I placed my fingers on an object that my mind wanted me to identify as a desk

Wonderful. Notice feelings.
Then notice that thoughts identify feelings with some story? Is it like this?
Then notice does the feeling knows the story? Or there is a story about feeling that is here right now?
Who or what made feelings?

Thoughts are made of just- thoughts. The who or what is in my mind.

Wonderful. Please put this as a poster on the wall "Thoughts are made of thoughts. There is no independent being or authority that produce them"
Notice what is to find this?
Thought about soup is the same as thoughts that describes how bad person am I, or not?

Something in my mind makes the thoughts - I don't know why.

Yes, you can ask, loudly
"Hey who is there, who is speaking? "
and also say
"Please be more gentle, change the radio station - I want to spend the time here enjoying life, freely playing with it "
And notice the answers?

Fun :)
Lubo

[Gman]

Thanks Lubo

Then notice that thoughts identify feelings with some story? Is it like this?

Yes, seems a story is nothing but thoughts that create a feeling or feelings.

Then notice does the feeling knows the story? Or there is a story about feeling that is here right now?
Yes, once the feeling occurs, the thoughts want to either continue the same story or jump to another, causing additional emotions. Seems the thought occurs, then the feeling.

Who or what made feelings?

When I look for the who - my mind wants me to identify myself as the who. The what - I don't know - decades of thought programming?

Notice what is to find this?

Yes - they are all the same - just a thought

When I ask -"Hey who is there, who is speaking? " There is no answer and nothing to change the radio station :)

Enjoy

Gman

[Lubo]

Wow, what a joy to read your reply :)

When I look for the who - my mind wants me to identify myself as the who. The what - I don't know - decades of thought programming?

Yes, only programing. Notice the main program - I am the body !
is there anything/anyone but a story about identification with the body?

Yes - they are all the same - just a thought

Is there separate entity Gman which has a body, has a thoughts?
or all these is just a story about someone ?

Love
Lubo

[Gman]

Hi Lubo,

Yes, only programing. Notice the main program - I am the body !

the main program is only the thoughts. With the question of how do I know I am a body , I can't answer without thinking. And when thinking happens, I ask "Who is there, who is speaking?" - nothing !

is there anything/anyone but a story about identification with the body?

No, it is just a story made up of thoughts

Is there separate entity Gman which has a body, has a thoughts?
or all these is just a story about someone ?

it is just a story of thoughts that can not answer the questions of who.

Answering the questions you ask is making some kind of change - very nice!

Enjoy
Gman

[Lubo]

Hi Gman,
Nice. Yes, Self is just a story, like Santa.
It is obvous that there is nobody in the body.
And there is no fireworks to find this, isn't it?

So, we found that I doesn't exist, but there is something.
Let's investigate what is this that is here?
This here is speeking, thinking... there is no entity but what is this?
There is a suffering also or what?

Love
Lubo

[Gman]

Hello Lubo,

there is no fireworks to find this, isn't it?

No, there is none

Let's investigate what is this that is here?

Nothing I can label. Just happening - direct experiences which have no name

This here is speeking, thinking... there is no entity but what is this?

just a being - part of something whole?

There is a suffering also or what?

Not when there is "no speaker or thinker".

If a speaker or a thinker appears, so does suffering

Enjoy,
Gman

[Lubo]

Wonderful.
Thanks for the reply

Not when there is "no speaker or thinker".
If a speaker or a thinker appears, so does suffering

Notice how speker or thinker appear?
Is there something real that appear? (like Santa trough the fireplace :)
How this ilusion is coming, what's happening?

Responsability? What are you responsibal for?

Smile :)
Lubo

[Gman]

Hi Lubo,

Notice how speker or thinker appear?

Yes- I just ask who is speaking..no answer :)

Is there something real that appear? (like Santa trough the fireplace :)

Haha....no, nothing is real - it is just thoughts with labels - nothing to them

How this ilusion is coming, what's happening?

Having some 'not" typical moments - was walking up stairs but only experienced moving though a space. The stairs were flat - odd in a good way

Responsability? What are you responsibal for?

When the "I" goes away - there is nothing to be responsible for :)

How do I maintain the no I \self for longer time?

Enjoy,

Gman

[Lubo]

Hi dear Gman,

When the "I" goes away - there is nothing to be responsible for :)

What reality is "When I goes away"?

How do I maintain the no I \self for longer time?

I , self is just a label for something that appear, but it isn't a real self. What is this?

Joy
Lubo

[Gman]

Hi Lubo,

What reality is "When I goes away"?

I was never real. Only a thought

I , self is just a label for something that appear, but it isn't a real self. What is this?

There is no separations - Is it all is a whole?

Enjoy,
Gman

[Lubo]

Hi Gman,
Thanks for the reply.

There is no separations - Is it all is a whole?

The question - Is there a self - points to find what is realy here. No need for the answer.
is there a self? = What is this here?
No need to seek, see what's here?
Describe what is found :)

Much love
Lubo

[Gman]

Hi Lubo,

is there a self? = What is this here?
No need to seek, see what's here?
Describe what is found :)

There is no self. Nothing is found.

Enjoy,
Gman