I’ve had a first awakening. Where do I go from here?

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

You asked what is arising when I read this:

There is no you, no separate self in any shape or form, it never was, it will never be.

The first feeling, and it’s very quick to appear, is a feeling of relief. There’s nothing in myself that opposes to this idea.
Sometimes, during the day, when I read it again, even some tears came to my eyes, of joy and relief, as a weight lifting from my back.

But when I start to think about it, when I try to look for the “me”, something would tell me that it is not true, that I am very far from this realization, that this realization will never happen to me, because “of course there’s my story, my fears, and I am delusional to think that such a transformational realization would happen so easily me”, even though a very deep shift happened in the beginning of this year, so I know it IS possible. But the no-self would be to ask too much… I know it doesn’t make sense. But that is what my mind keeps telling me. I know it’s just thoughts, but, on the other hand, I feel I don’t know what to replace these thoughts with.

Maybe it’s all just fear of letting go.

Maybe my expectations are too high, but all I really want is to feel that I am in sync wit life, in the flow of life, and to live more effortlessly.

I watched a video by Ilona, I don’t remember which one, but she mentioned the words “stop fighting with life”, and I immediately started crying when I heard it. That’s all I want: to stop fight with life.

I’m sorry if I’m going too far ahead of the question, but whenever I really feel the idea “there is no me, there never was or will be”, all those things come to mind.

Thank you.

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

The first feeling, and it’s very quick to appear, is a feeling of relief. There’s nothing in myself that opposes to this idea.

Great.

Sometimes, during the day, when I read it again, even some tears came to my eyes, of joy and relief, as a weight lifting from my back.

Good, life is recognizing itself.

But when I start to think about it, when I try to look for the “me”, something would tell me that it is not true, that I am very far from this realization, that this realization will never happen to me, because “of course there’s my story, my fears, and I am delusional to think that such a transformational realization would happen so easily me”, even though a very deep shift happened in the beginning of this year, so I know it IS possible. But the no-self would be to ask too much… I know it doesn’t make sense. But that is what my mind keeps telling me. I know it’s just thoughts, but, on the other hand, I feel I don’t know what to replace these thoughts with.

A lot of thoughts here, I invite you to do an exercise about thoughts.
Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Maybe it’s all just fear of letting go.

Look at this fear : is there a sensation in the body ? or is it just thought ?

Maybe my expectations are too high, but all I really want is to feel that I am in sync wit life, in the flow of life, and to live more effortlessly.

Let aside your expectations and look freshly at what is going on : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations.

I watched a video by Ilona, I don’t remember which one, but she mentioned the words “stop fighting with life”, and I immediately started crying when I heard it. That’s all I want: to stop fight with life.

Fighting happens only as thoughts : life is flowing as you. What do you do exactly to fight life ? give examples.

I’m sorry if I’m going too far ahead of the question, but whenever I really feel the idea “there is no me, there never was or will be”, all those things come to mind.

That’s good to clear up things.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

Here are the answers to the questions about the thoughts:

Where are they coming from and going to?

They come from nowhere and go nowhere. They just appear.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, not during this exercise.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No.

Can you predict your next thought?

No.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

Look at this fear : is there a sensation in the body ? or is it just thought

It’s just thought. There’s no sensation in the body.

What do you do exactly to fight life ? give examples.

I think it’s a conditioning from having depression from my late teens until the beginning of this year (about 25 years). I took medication for it from 2010 until September 2021, when, for some reason, I decided alone to taper it down until I stopped. Then I had this sudden shift, literally from day to night (although looking back I see all the conditions for it accumulating in the previous weeks), and I never ever felt the pain of depression again. A good chunk of my identity simply disappeared. I used to have a shopping addiction that simply vanished. Some would call it “first awakening “, “stream entry”, “kundalini something”, I really don’t know, and honestly, I don’t think I care about the name of what exactly happened.
But the fact is that for almost 25 years my first thought when I woke up in the morning was “I can’t believe I am still alive, please let this be my last day”. Then, it changed to “mmm… let’s see what’s here for today”, with some curiosity about life. But my life situation isn’t the best right now. I take care of my mother with dementia and my elderly (but thankfully healthy) father. Most days I accept my situation. But I still have, sometimes, a feeling that I could be doing something different. There is an inner resistance to the events of every day life. It’s like the first reaction I have to life is resistance. It’s not natural, for me, to trust that life can be enjoyable. But I’m learning to see things differently, because the suffering that used to accompany this resistance isn’t here anymore. I’m sorry, it’s hard to describe. For the first time in decades I’m not suffering, but I still don’t feel that I am in the flow of life, I still don’t trust that life is happening through me, I don’t feel this lightness.
I think I believe I still have to have some control over the events, maybe. I don’t know.

Sorry for such a long reply.

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

I hope that you have really Looked at the thoughts during the exercise and the answers are given after seeing them as true. It is an important exercise.

There is an inner resistance to the events of every day life. It’s like the first reaction I have to life is resistance.

Actually, look at this resistance : what is it ? a sensation, a thought ? If it is a sensation, where is it located in the body ?

It’s not natural, for me, to trust that life can be enjoyable. But I’m learning to see things differently, because the suffering that used to accompany this resistance isn’t here anymore. I’m sorry, it’s hard to describe. For the first time in decades I’m not suffering, but I still don’t feel that I am in the flow of life, I still don’t trust that life is happening through me, I don’t feel this lightness.

Have faith in the process going on here and things will settle up.

I think I believe I still have to have some control over the events, maybe. I don’t know.

Do you see that the words written above don’t point to nothing in direct experience ? Just have in mind that direct experience is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations.

Sorry for such a long reply.

It is good to elaborate on the answers.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

Right after I wrote my last post to you, I started to read the book “Gateless Gatecrashers”. I had it on kindle for a while, but I only started it the day before yesterday. And it was really helpful. It helped me to see where I should be looking. That, together with some other videos that I rewatched, also with some direct experience investigation, kind of pushed me, and I did some inquiry and I concluded this:
The “me” that I was identifying with was just a bunch of beliefs and conditioning. Just a thought, an idea. That was crystal clear to me, when I first saw it.
There is no “me”. I can’t find a “me” anywhere in the experience.
When I looked for it in the mind space, it was just a blank, vast empty space. It felt really good.
Yesterday, I spent the whole day confirming this idea.
But when the night came… there were lots of thoughts coming, and also a lot of feelings, specially a bit of anger, that I don’t know where is coming from.
Then today, I still couldn’t find the “me”. But there is something inside that keeps pushing the idea that I can’t let go of all beliefs. Specially because I would have to let go the belief that I know what is right and what is wrong for me, for other people, for the world, and those people who don’t agree with me are just stupid people. I know, it’s laughable. I know, there is no way things actually are, there is no right or wrong, there is just life, unfolding, without a doer, for everyone. But this last part that I wrote, is not completely seen. I’m my mind I know, but in my “heart”, I’m struggling with it.

I’m sorry I didn’t answer directly the questions of your last post, but these couple of days were intense with all of these findings.

I don’t know if I should keep investigating more the beliefs, or if I should keep the investigation to the direct experience…

There is no me. But there’s still a bit of confusion. I feel there’s nowhere to land, no ground to step on and rest.

Thank you.

[warissem]

Good evening

Right after I wrote my last post to you, I started to read the book “Gateless Gatecrashers”. I had it on kindle for a while, but I only started it the day before yesterday. And it was really helpful. It helped me to see where I should be looking. That, together with some other videos that I rewatched, also with some direct experience investigation, kind of pushed me, and I did some inquiry and I concluded this:
The “me” that I was identifying with was just a bunch of beliefs and conditioning. Just a thought, an idea. That was crystal clear to me, when I first saw it.

Great, good news.

There is no “me”. I can’t find a “me” anywhere in the experience.

What is this “I” which cannot find a “me” ? Look.

When I looked for it in the mind space, it was just a blank, vast empty space. It felt really good.
Yesterday, I spent the whole day confirming this idea.

Be clearer about what is seen ? Is there a seer ?

But when the night came… there were lots of thoughts coming, and also a lot of feelings, specially a bit of anger, that I don’t know where is coming from.

Yes. ordinary life.

Then today, I still couldn’t find the “me”.

You cannot find what is never there. Can you find a white elephant ?

But there is something inside that keeps pushing the idea that I can’t let go of all beliefs. Specially because I would have to let go the belief that I know what is right and what is wrong for me, for other people, for the world, and those people who don’t agree with me are just stupid people. I know, it’s laughable. I know, there is no way things actually are, there is no right or wrong, there is just life, unfolding, without a doer, for everyone. But this last part that I wrote, is not completely seen. I’m my mind I know, but in my “heart”, I’m struggling with it.

Yes, there is an understanding and it is good to begin with.

I’m sorry I didn’t answer directly the questions of your last post, but these couple of days were intense with all of these findings.

Yes, the questions will repeat themselves in other forms.

I don’t know if I should keep investigating more the beliefs, or if I should keep the investigation to the direct experience…

Keep looking at direct experience : see if there is you doing things during the day (walking, eating, writing, reading, speaking, thinking, working, …)? If there is a separate self, a person, Abigail doing things, you will surely see it.

There is no me. But there’s still a bit of confusion. I feel there’s nowhere to land, no ground to step on and rest.

Good. Just be in this place of unknowing and have faith on what is going on. Can you add or subtract something to what is here now ?

Please look at each question and give the answer after having looked at direct experience.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

The last days, since I last posted, I have been feeling very different, much lighter, with much more clarity in the mind.

Keep looking at direct experience : see if there is you doing things during the day (walking, eating, writing, reading, speaking, thinking, working, …)?

I have been looking at the direct experience as much as I can, and I see that there is no self, anywhere in the experience.
It’s not that there is a feeling that things are being done by themselves, but when I look and try to see if “I” am doing it, that’s not that experience either.
Things are just happening.

Another thing that I noticed is that without all the beliefs that were attached to the “me”, I’m feeling much lighter and energetic. I think that the feeling of fighting life is gone, or at least it’s seen, as a belief that I had to feel a certain way.

Good. Just be in this place of unknowing and have faith on what is going on. Can you add or subtract something to what is here now ?

I can’t add or subtract anything. There’s only what’s here right now.

It’s so simple! I can see clearly now when I have a thought, that it’s just a thought, that’s not “me”.

I’m sure there are going to be many more situations when the “me” will try to reappear… but I feel that it’s possible to see and identify when this happens.

Is there any more deepening of this realization? I don’t know if I’m making myself clear (sorry).

Than you!

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

Wow, there is clarity in your post. I am glad to read what you said.

The last days, since I last posted, I have been feeling very different, much lighter, with much more clarity in the mind.

Great, how about now ? Is there yesterday outside of thoughts ?
Is there tomorrow outside of thoughts ?

I have been looking at the direct experience as much as I can, and I see that there is no self, anywhere in the experience.

Yes, good observations.

It’s not that there is a feeling that things are being done by themselves, but when I look and try to see if “I” am doing it, that’s not that experience either.
Things are just happening.

Yes, there is no doer, things are happening and there is knowing of experience.
Is there a separation between the experience and the knowing of it ?

Another thing that I noticed is that without all the beliefs that were attached to the “me”, I’m feeling much lighter and energetic. I think that the feeling of fighting life is gone, or at least it’s seen, as a belief that I had to feel a certain way.

Great.

I can’t add or subtract anything. There’s only what’s here right now.
Yes.

It’s so simple! I can see clearly now when I have a thought, that it’s just a thought, that’s not “me”.
Yes, “what is” is just what is and thoughts and labels are also part of experience, of what is.


I’m sure there are going to be many more situations when the “me” will try to reappear… but I feel that it’s possible to see and identify when this happens.
The “me” can appear as a thought, it is only a thought with no substance. The key is to see things as they are, without the commentaries around them.

Is there any more deepening of this realization? I don’t know if I’m making myself clear (sorry).

Yes, it is clear.
I invite you to do this exercise :
1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

Sorry for not reply earlier. As I mentioned on the email, last Saturday I spent the whole day with a sensation of fear and disorientation. I couldn’t even think very well. Yesterday was better, but it was a busy day with my family.

Today it seems that the clarity is back. It’s like there was a lot of agitation that just calmed itself down.

I’m sure it’s just how things will go. It was uncomfortable, but I can see now that the sensation I felt was natural, and I didn’t try to resist. The sensation was just there, and it can the same way it went away.

Answer the questions from your last post:

Is there yesterday outside of thoughts ?
Is there tomorrow outside of thoughts ?

Even though I just made a reference to yesterday and the day before yesterday, I can see that it’s just thoughts. There is only right now. Only what is happening exactly right now.

I did the exercise you suggested.

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

It was quite an enjoyable exercise! Simple, but very effective to see that there is no one making choices.
I did it almost trying to find someone, trying to find the controller. But no, there is none.
I guess the next step is to take this realization to all aspects of life. Right?

I have to say that I’m still amazed by how freeing it is.

Thank you so much for your help. I really, really appreciate your support so far. :)

All the best,

Abigail

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

I am glad to know that you begin to see things to what they are : a thought is only a thought; a fear is a sensation with a label "fear", ... It means that you are exploring the territory.

Now, is seeking still happening ?
If yes, what is missing ?
If no, feel free to expose any topic or doubt about this stuff.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

Today I woke up, again, with a strong feeling of fear. Many thoughts about my life situation and current events were coming, for a justification of this fear. But I think it’s part of the process of seeing things more clearly.
Is it possible? I read about it somewhere, that it’s common to have a fear response in the body when you’re investigating more deeply about your identity. But I don’t know if that’s what is happening here, or if it’s just a belief, or what should I do (if anything).
Have you seen it happening with other people?
I’m sorry to talk about it again, but it’s really an uncomfortable sensation.

Now, is seeking still happening ?

Not really seeking.
But I still don’t feel the oneness, the feeling of not being a separate self. The connection with everything. I don’t feel “non-dual”. I don’t even know what I think that would be, but I think it’s not happening here.

I feel that I am not finished with the “me” yet. Of course I understand it’s a process, but I don’t know what to look for now.
The day I finally understood that the “me” was just a bunch of thoughts and beliefs (just last week, I think), I felt a clarity and an expansion in the mind, but that same sensation, exactly like that, is gone, and it hasn’t returned.

But also I see that, if there’s no “me”, just things happening, then there’s nothing that “I” can really do about it. It’s a very paradoxical feeling.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, or maybe I still have unrealistic expectations.

Thank you,

Abigail

[warissem]

Good evening

About the arising of fear, I send you an email. Ponder on what is said and let me know about what is going on.

Best for you

Warissem

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

Not really seeking.
But I still don’t feel the oneness, the feeling of not being a separate self. The connection with everything. I don’t feel “non-dual”. I don’t even know what I think that would be, but I think it’s not happening here.
I feel that I am not finished with the “me” yet. Of course I understand it’s a process, but I don’t know what to look for now.

In this forum, we help you to see through the illusion of a separate self. It is a beginning of a process to realization. When you see that Santa Klaus is a role playing, it does not mean that Santa will disappear from your view. Look at this questions and give answers after having been 100 % sure that it is true :

Have you seen that you are not a color, a shape or a form (what is seen) ?
Have you seen that you are not a sound, a smell, a taste ?
Have you seen that you are not a sensation, a body (which is seen as a bunch of sensations) ?
Have you seen that you are not a thought ?
Have you seen that you are not a feeling, an emotion ?
Have you seen that you are not an experiencer, a doer ?
Have you seen that you are not a separate self inhabiting a body ?
Is there knowing (being aware) of colors, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, feelings, …?
Is there a frontier, a separation between what is known (colors, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, feelings, …) and the knowing ?

The day I finally understood that the “me” was just a bunch of thoughts and beliefs (just last week, I think), I felt a clarity and an expansion in the mind, but that same sensation, exactly like that, is gone, and it hasn’t returned.

Yes, but there is no you to feel clarity, there is only clarity. Continue to look at direct experience, don’t lean on thoughts. What you said above is seen with clarity, isn’t-it ?

But also I see that, if there’s no “me”, just things happening, then there’s nothing that “I” can really do about it. It’s a very paradoxical feeling.

Have you seen clearly that there is no you ? or is it just a hypothesis, a mind stuff ?

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, or maybe I still have unrealistic expectations.

I am waiting for your answers to go ahead

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem,

Thank you for your replies, and for Ilona’s text.
She says

The idea of loosing control is as scary as the idea of death

I think that’s the fear I was feeling. I didn’t fight it, just recognized it for what it is, and right now it’s mostly gone.

The other thing that made me realize what was bothering me was something you wrote:

When you see that Santa Klaus is a role playing, it does not mean that Santa will disappear from your view.

I think I had the wrong expectation that it would completely go away. Now I see that some identity will always be here. I just have to see it for what it is, and not identify with it.

Have you seen that you are not a color, a shape or a form (what is seen) ?
Have you seen that you are not a sound, a smell, a taste ?
Have you seen that you are not a sensation, a body (which is seen as a bunch of sensations) ?
Have you seen that you are not a thought ?
Have you seen that you are not a feeling, an emotion ?

Yes, it’s clear that I am not any of that.

Have you seen that you are not an experiencer, a doer ?
Have you seen that you are not a separate self inhabiting a body ?

Yes!! I finally have seen it!
I had seen it before, but it was so simple and the mind came and made me doubt it. But now it’s clear.

Is there a frontier, a separation between what is known (colors, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, feelings, …) and the knowing ?

I’m not sure if I really understood the question, but I can say that I see no separation between the sensations, thoughts and feelings and the knowing. It’s very intimate and in the present moment. All of that is all that is happening right now.

Have you seen clearly that there is no you ? or is it just a hypothesis, a mind stuff ?

Yes, I can say with certainty that I can see that there is no “me”.
I believe that the fear caused the doubt about it.
And also the wrong expectation.
I’m keeping it simple, and trusting this understanding more and more.

The last days seemed like months to me! So much questioning and investigating.

I can’t thank you enough. This work that you and the team of LU do is invaluable.

Again, thank you for helping me with all this!

All the best,

Abigail

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

Fine, you have done a great work. These are questions we habitually ask to be sure that all is OK.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Best for you

Warissem