Greetings!

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

Yes I joined Ilona's meeting, it was very good!
I'll try to attend Vince's meeting as well in a couple minutes.

Love

Ico

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

Yesterday Ilona's and Vince's meetings were sooo powerful that some things have really fallen into place. I'm grateful to all of you for your valuable comments and feedback. It seems online meetings are far more beneficial than I ever imagined.

"How are things going?"

Well I don't care much.
I just realized this afternoon that I don't care as much whether I feel peaceful or unpeaceful, happy or unhappy, heavy or light.

None of these "moods" feel solidly personal any more, it seems.

Re anxiety, I’ve realized that anxiety might just be a "practical" sign sometimes to warn us about something (like an alarm clock), or it might mobilize us by provoking a relatively higher level of stress according to the requirements of the Moment.

So anxiety is not necessarily bad or dysfunctional all the time. And also, different anxieties might imply different things (to different people), so I no more put anxieties (or moods) in a single box. I just look at “each” mood or anxiety to “see” what it wants to say in that moment.

In other words, I’ve started looking at everything in life (seemingly positive or negative) as natural signs and evidences of the Moment: the Way of Life.
….

If I am sad that's the way of life. If I am happy, that's the way of life.
There is no self in sadness, and there is no self in happiness.

My being is assimilating these new insights... it's like a download happening almost 24/7. Everything feels just natural.

This is the current situation here.

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

That sounds just wonderful! If you become sure that there is no separate self, ask me for the Final questions or just go backup by post to the confidence. Meanwhile just keep integrating. We're doing a great job

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy!

I'm sooo happy to tell you that I've seen through the self. That there is no separate self.
It seems Seeing has happened through a process within the last two weeks and especially in the last couple days.
I'm ready for the final questions, I'd like to respond to them at the first opportunity.
I'm sooo grateful to you for all your help during this investigation. Your directness as a Guide is really quite extraordinary.
I can't thank you enough:)))

Love from the bottom of my heart

Ico

[Anastacia42]

I am so happy for you! I had no idea when we began how this would go. Good work! You did great LOOKING.



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Be thorough, but succinct. Just enough so we can read that you "get it."

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Hi again Stacy,

I actually realized during our talks in the zoom meetings of Ilona and Vince yesterday that I've already seen through the self. You were also present in the zoom meeting of Vince, I thank you all from the depth of my heart!!

How it happened: Today about half an hour ago I just asked myself the Final questions and realized that I can confidently answer them. I am really surprised how things have happened so quickly in the last few days. I can see that this recognition is only a beginning.

Btw I'll answer the final questions soon.

Lots of love:)

Ico

[Iconoclast]

I am so happy for you! I had no idea when we began how this would go. Good work! You did great LOOKING.

Tysm!!!

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Are you having any trouble with the "final" questions?

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

In the last two days I've been extremely busy with graduate classes, new graduate students etc, so I had little opportunity to write.

Today I have more time, so I am writing some responses, I'll send them soon today.

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

Very good, Ico. I just wanted to check. We went from 6 emails in a day to nothing, so curiosity arose.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There is no separate self, me, or "I" at all anywhere, in any way, shape or form. There never was. The "idea" of self is just a mental construct. "I" is a fictive character. In Wholeness, there is an unbroken Energy flow, no separate beings. Separation is just a fantasy. In its nature, Mind imagines fragmented realities (‘selves’), while Reality is naturally Whole. Realizing this wholeness is awakening to no-self (or non-self).

2.
2.1. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is

The illusion of separate self is a “hypnosis of self-consciousness”. The self paints everything in its own color. It separates "one" from the people and the world. It creates a black hole in one's heart and mind.

One can see that the idea of separate self creates an "unbridgeable" gap between one and the world: "You" versus the whole world. The overwhelming and depressing weight of individual responsibility. Even though Life is a Holistic Flow, you feel like a separate droplet within the flow and it makes you feel helpless.

In fact, whether "you" succeed or fail in life, in the end you will feel "unfulfilled", because when you think that you are separate from the whole, it is inevitable to become alienated from people and nature. In reality though, such a separation is categorically impossible.

One may temporarily believe that he or she is an "island" separate from reality ("Selfification"). However one day one somehow realizes that one is not an island, but "all there is" is the totality. The idea of separation then seems distant like a dream.

2.2. when it starts

In my case the illusion of separate self started probably around age 4. I can clearly remember how it “felt” before that.

2.3. and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

In my experience the idea of separate self meant I was an "individual", responsible, having a free will, different from everybody. It meant defending myself against the whole world.

I can now see that thinking of a separate self is like imagining that a kidney can continue functioning without a "body". In this regard the ego is essentially an "abstraction". If you cut out something from the whole, it is killed. No more alive!

Seeing through the self and the Wholeness, one starts to understand the suchness of everything. Everything looks empty and insubstantial. One starts to feel that there is no self in "moods", that there is no self for example in sadness, and there is no self in happiness. Sadness is wholeness, happiness is wholeness. Everything is the Way of Life. Everything is flowing, as it is.

3. How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel free(d) from the Poison of imagining that there are separate "boxes" in the world (selves). I got rid of the "distorting mirror" that warps reality. It's nice to be able to see the Reality directly.

I used to feel self-conscious, now I feel much more spontaneous. I no longer feel the need to prove myself to anyone. Before I started this dialogue, my whole perception was going through the 'self' filter. Now that filter is gone.

Before, I used to know the equality of everything theoretically in my mind, now I feel it in my heart and live it in my daily life. I listen to everyone and everything so closely, so intimately. I understand, see and feel the story of everyone and everything. Freedom, Horizontal Equality and Solidarity feel so natural.

I used to try generating empathy at a conscious level (as much as it can be produced with a self, of course). Now I don't need to try generating empathy anymore. I spontaneously fuse with everything. I am a partner in the joy, sadness and enthusiasm of everything and everyone. I see emptiness in everything, in sorrow, in joy, in passion, in conflict, in love, in hatred, in peace, in war, in monarchy, and in republic, in democracy, and in fascism. The emptiness in everything shines. The emptiness breeds lovingness and affection in me.

4. What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Looking retrospectively, these three "together" (compound effect):

-Watching Mei Long’s video on youtube called “That there is no me cannot be known” (I could highly recommend her videos to anyone who wants to experience nonduality. Her energy and clarity transmit the frequency of the "shift").

-The exercise that Stacy sent regarding Time, Memory, and Self. Her insistence on the "Final questions" definitely pushed me over.

-Reading the following sentence by Greg: "Every time something seems to be missing, the thought that perceives the missing thing always has an 'I' in it!" (taken from the book “Gateless Gatecrashers”).

These two also deeply contributed to the clarification recently,

-Reading Jed McKenna’s groundbreaking book “Spiritual Enlightenment” within the last two weeks (This book has changed the whole context).

-Attending Ilona’s and Vince’s zoom meetings on October 10, 2022, and seeing people there who saw through the self. I felt that I am in the same "vibe".

5.
5.1. Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions are action plans. Decision and action are actually two sides of the same coin (they apparently constitute an Organic Whole).

For example, I've just decided to take tea (and not coffee). In the midst of the specific conditions, it is the Way of Life appearing here as this “decision”. There is no agent/decider doing it. It just happens the way it does.

5.2. Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intentions are "automatic" thought-forms that apparently function as sign-posts for action. In other words, intentions are natural mental “correlates” of actions. For example, the weather has become cold, now the intention to take a cup of tea has arisen and I’ve taken a cup of tea.

Does the intention to take a cup of tea have any "owner" (behind it)? No. The intention to take tea arose without any external “planner”, and the tea was taken without any agency whatsoever. Intentions emerge just spontaneously, they happen “by themselves” in their creative-suchness.

5.3. Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is another way of saying free “self”. Since there is no self, there is no “will” either (the adjectives “free” or “unfree” qualifying the non-existent self are simply redundant).

For example “I” have no free will about when to go to bed today. Going to bed will just happen according to the conditions of the body, schedule, etc.

Some supposed “will” about when to go to bed implies “separation” from Life (external agency). And there is no separation: Life is not separate (from Life).

5.4. Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choices are preferences and they happen without a “chooser”.

Although the idea of contingency implies a plurality of "choices", in fact choices always emerge in their own “spontaneous singularity” and they manifest directly in their suchness, without the “mediation” of an external subject.

For example “I” choose democracy (let’s say over fascism). This choice apparently happens within the conditions and life-story of the character called “me”. It is the “fruit” of innumerable conditions, from time immemorial to now. Choosing democracy in "my" case, is the Way of Life. It just happens.

5.5. Describe control & give examples from experience.

There is no control either in thoughts or behaviors. The idea of control, if and when arises in a mind, also happens “by itself”. This sentence for example is written with some (mental) discipline but without any control whatsoever. There is no (outside) agent who can control it. Words just flow in their natural rhythm in the moment.

Control is a dualistic notion that stems from the fantasy that the mind (i.e. the imagined pseudo-subject) can dominate over objects and thoughts. In other words, Control implies an (external) Observer who can "apply" control. There is neither an observer nor the observed.

No control (no agency) can be “added” to the Spontaneous Nature of Things. Things in their “suchness” happen “anarchically” without getting any permission from a Center. There is no such Center, there is no control. Existence is centerless while manifesting in each and every appearance.

Control is (a) dead (fantasy), while Life is alive! Every moment is uniquely and unpredictably fresh. Life is a jam session (improvised jazz). I am interested nowadays in the relationship betwen art and nonduality. I write free verse poetry, with some awareness but without any control. It’s poetry without any (author’itarian) poet. “Free” verse in a sense is “nonduality applied to poetry”.

Btw after the shift, I have also clearly seen how haikus are written (or supposed to be written) without a self. Before the shift that sounded eccentric, outlandish and probably close to impossible, now I know that such spontaneity is just "inevitable" in the wholeness of things.

A new haiku (moment) that happened to "me" in the veranda yesterday,

Two rabbits stand still
Near the pine tree in full moon –
Sound of diving Hawk.

5.6. What makes things happen? How does it work?

“The Way of Life” (Wholeness) makes things happen. I have no idea about how it works, it’s a mystery.

5.7. What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no responsibility, yet I naturally “respond to” the moment and what it brings.

For example a friend of mine asked for some help with an article a few days ago and I “felt” I was somehow the “right” person to do it considering the conditions of the situation, and responded to his request positively.

In my experience there is no responsibility, but only responsiveness.

It's also true that there is no “right” or “wrong”, but only convenience and inconvenience (in “practical” terms).

6. Anything to add?

I am very glad that I have been guided on this forum and have seen through the self. If possible, I’d love to be a guide on the forum.

Tyvm for reading.

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ico,

This is beautiful to read. It was a "long" road, but happened in no time. :)

Yes, we always need guides. It is suggested to settle into your new awareness some before you begin. You'll know when. Also, remember the videos on "got it/lost it." This new Awareness cannot be lost, but if you bump into unquestioned beliefs that are not true, it may feel that way. Find the lie and counter it with the truth and freedom arises.

Now your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions. Watch for a PM top right.

I'm StacyAnnClark on Facebook, if you'd like to stay in touch.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

This is beautiful to read. It was a "long" road, but happened in no time. :)

Tyvm!! :)

Yes, we always need guides. It is suggested to settle into your new awareness some before you begin. You'll know when.

Wonderful.

Also, remember the videos on "got it/lost it." This new Awareness cannot be lost, but if you bump into unquestioned beliefs that are not true, it may feel that way. Find the lie and counter it with the truth and freedom arises.

In that regard I’ll continue doing the Work of Byron Katie.

Now your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions. Watch for a PM top right.

Ok, that’s great.

I'm StacyAnnClark on Facebook, if you'd like to stay in touch.

Sure, I’d love to stay in touch with you. I once again thank you with all my heart.

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

You are SO welcome!

You've crossed the Gateless Gate. Good work!

You'll get a PM and your name in the forum will turn blue showing this.

When you're ready to start guiding, read several guide's threads and choose a mentor, who will guide you through your first clients. Ask to join the LU Guides forum on Facebook.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

You are SO welcome!

You've crossed the Gateless Gate. Good work!

Tysm!! I'm very grateful for your guiding. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.

You'll get a PM and your name in the forum will turn blue showing this.

When you're ready to start guiding, read several guide's threads and choose a mentor, who will guide you through your first clients. Ask to join the LU Guides forum on Facebook.

Ok, great. I look forward to it.

Lots of love:)

Ico