Greetings!

[Anastacia42]

It is true that you can't prove a negative.

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist who has seen no self. Read "Free Will. "

Free Will [Deckle Edge]
https://a.co/dAcmJlC

His book, "Waking Up"is also good.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion https://a.co/c6wtplM

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist who has seen no self. Read "Free Will. "

Ok I will definetely read it asap.

It is true that you can't prove a negative.

Then how come we can be "sure" about the "no hidden faculty that enables free will"?
I assume that 99.9% there is no such faculty. Is that "enough" for a noself experience, or what else I should "see"? What else did YOU see? or Harris saw?

I am trying to see what I'm missing, while it is evident that negatives cannot be proven? Categorically. Methodologically.
From where does your sureness come, while our mental faculties are not transparent at all and seem quite obscure to us observers?

Btw as far as I have understood so far, DE means "senses". Senses just tell about senses. How can senses tell anything about the workings of mental or neurological faculties, or the existence or nonexistence of some possible hidden faculties which are hardly observable in a definite way? To me it sounds like trying to understand telescopic or microscopic events with the "naked eye".

How can "naked eye" (i.e. in this case Direct Experience) be a criteria for obscure processes like free will, I mean methodologically?

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ico,

No logic or thinking can prove any of this. It is experiential, but it is not just an experience.

Like Santa Claus, you clearly see there's no self.

Language can't accurately explain it.

Your post asks for explanations. I'm not here to explain. I'm here to point, only point.

So stop asking useless logical questions & just LOOK - yes, at the evidence of your 5 Senses. Notice Thought Arising & ignore all that it says, including doubts & questions.

Much love,

[Iconoclast]

So stop asking useless logical questions & just LOOK

LOOK at WHAT? What will I look at exactly?

Okay now in this moment I want to OBSERVE how choices really happen.
But I just can't see how and "where" exactly this can be observed.

What should I look at exactly?

[Anastacia42]

LOOK at WHAT? What will I look at exactly?

Every single pointer I've given you gives you a VERY specific place to look. ALL of them "work."

For example,

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


See? You are instructed where to look. EXACTLY

Okay now in this moment I want to OBSERVE how choices really happen.
But I just can't see how and "where" exactly this can be observed.

You will look & not find what does not exist.

This realization eventually shows you there is no self, no choice, no free will, no control, etc. They CANNOT BE FOUND.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes you accident prone." Sunryu Suzuki


Remember this?

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



LOOKING not "thinking." That's how we point.

Can you see that?

All of these pointers & the DropBox pointers make you accident prone. This peace & less thinking & less believing thinking tells me you ARE SEEING. Now you're just wrestling with doubt.

Ask yourself, "What would it take to stop doubting?"

Answer yourself. I don't need your answers. YOU do.

Much love,

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

I’ve started reading "Free Will" by Harris, I’ll have probably finished it by tomorrow.

Every single pointer I've given you gives you a VERY specific place to look. ALL of them "work."

I see. Tyvm.

For example,

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


See? You are instructed where to look. EXACTLY

Yes, exactly. They are all "specific" exercises.

"Okay now in this moment I want to OBSERVE how choices really happen.
But I just can't see how and "where" exactly this can be observed."
You will look & not find what does not exist.

This realization eventually shows you there is no self, no choice, no free will, no control, etc. They CANNOT BE FOUND.

True. Not finding it IS IT. It’s just not there, and that’s all. True!!

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes you accident prone." Sunryu Suzuki

Yes!

Remember this?

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

Oh yeah.

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Yes definetely! We are interested in immediate Reality, not thought. I can see that clearly.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am clear on that.

LOOKING not "thinking." That's how we point.

Can you see that?

Yes exactly. I will look at only "Experience", not thinking. This does and will Show me what is Reality. I trust that.

All of these pointers & the DropBox pointers make you accident prone. This peace & less thinking & less believing thinking tells me you ARE SEEING. Now you're just wrestling with doubt.

Yes you are right. I am looking and seeing certain things nowadays, for sure. But it also seems that maybe I am not seeing certain other things as clearly. It seems everything hasn't fallen into place yet. But I am hopeful. The process seems "irreversible". At least the things I saw are irreversible ("nothing is personal", "existence is impersonal" etc.).

My guess is that I am still struggling with the idea of “Soul”. It always was my most basic, sublime, sacred belief that directed my Life and values. How can it not exist? My mind continues asking this. But anyway I will ignore it for the sake of “immediate Reality”.

Actually I can see that this inner struggle can only "stop" as I see no-soul directly.

Ask yourself, "What would it take to stop doubting?".
Answer yourself. I don't need your answers. YOU do.

To ignore ALL thoughts and dive fully into REALITY. I can do that, I feel.

Lots of love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

There you go! You have all the answers.

I can see that this inner struggle can only "stop" as I see no-soul directly.

Exactly.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

it also seems that maybe I am not seeing certain other things as clearly

Of course!!!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

There's no perfect enlightenment. That's a MYTH.

You will be finding things to question & clean up for the rest of your life.

This is just killing me. You've got it & you don't know you've got it.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

"it also seems that maybe I am not seeing certain other things as clearly"
Of course!!!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

There's no perfect enlightenment. That's a MYTH.

Yes it's the Way of Life. It seems we will continue learning and acting as Life unfolds and inspires us. We will continue brushing our teeth everyday. There is no secret or magic about it. I can see this. I've "got" this especially in the past weeks.
....

Well, a few questions to myself: have I happily accepted Life then? Is there a feeling of inner fredom?
Well no. The inner freedom or joy is not there, living still feels quite heavy and burdensome, yet I have at least "understood" how Life works (The Way of Life), and this is a huge development for me.

You will be finding things to question & clean up for the rest of your life.

Yes, as long as life continues, it seems... I realize that living is experiencing life as it is. That Life is Mundane. The proof of (Immediate) Reality is (Immediate) Reality.

I see that there is nothing that Reality can be checked against or compared to. It is only the Mind that has a “comparing interface” in its “pseudo-Relation” to reality, while Reality is practically the only “Ground” of Reality.

I think I am in the process of understanding Reality more directly and in an "impersonal" way nowadays.

This is just killing me. You've got it & you don't know you've got it.

Hey! What is killing you my dear friend?:) I just try to make it clear that there are still things (in relation to noself) that haven’t fallen into place yet. This is the current situation here: in daily life I still feel highly concerned, heavy, anxious, fearful, self-critical, and "not feel liberated at all" yet... however despite all these, in my view too, it is evident that “something critical, possibly groundbreaking" has happened here.

I acknowledge that till the past few weeks if the percentage of “being Free from the Mind” in my case was let’s say 20%, now it is at least 60-65%. That’s how I feel. Why not 90% or 100%? Because I don’t feel light at all, my mind and heart still feel quite burdened and heavy.

Although I feel "relatively" more peaceful nowadays, this feeling is ambivalent and it seems that it possibly depends on relatively more positive “external” conditions of the past weeks.
....

As a result, I can say concern and fear still dominate my life, I do not feel an inner freedom or enthusiasm for life, so I assume that I haven’t "seen" the “main portion of it” yet.

It's a process for sure, so I will continue doing my best...

[Anastacia42]

You're doing fine. I've asked another guide to take a look, because he did something similar. He's busy for a few days, but maybe he can help.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

You're doing fine. I've asked another guide to take a look, because he did something similar. He's busy for a few days, but maybe he can help.

Ok that sounds fine, Stacy. I trust your expertise. Tyvm.

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

Hi again.

Have you done this one?

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Hi Stacy,

Two days ago I sent an e-mail to the admin for the Zoom link of Ilona's meeting on Sunday.
I haven't received any response yet. If possible could you inform them about the situation, or can you have them send me the link through PM, tyvm.

Love

Ico

[Iconoclast]

Have you done this one?

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE

No not yet, I am just watching it now.

[Anastacia42]

Looks like I missed Ilona's meeting. Did you go?

Vince's meeting is in 1 hour.

Our next one is: October 10, 2022 06:00 AM Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney time - You can convert time zones here; dateful.com

Then fortnightly.

Click here to Join Zoom Meeting

Meeting ID: Passcode: 083035
" original_font_attr="-1" original_line_height_attr="" style="">869 9148 5768

Passcode: 083035

That may not have copied well. I'll email.