Ending the constant searching

[Trinidiana]

HI Vince

Well, I rewatched the zoom Meeting, between yesterday and today, I found it to be very helpful indeed, lots of insights from everyone. You said some really really good stuff I must say , as did Mary , everyone really, and I really resonated with where Cas is at and Barry, Barry seems to have had a shift in my mind, i really liked what he said about the empty space. And then Paul too, so insightful, ah yes Vince, these meetings are really helpful indeed.

I have really grasped that the sense of self never goes, its just knowing that its not real. It’s the character. It’s needed to exist in this world. Knowing that it’s not real doesn't mean it wont still be there in its sensing of it. There was so much more I got from just this zoom meeting alone and its nice to be able to rewatch it. I remember you saying something on Sunday, that for some reason I couldn’t find in the recording, and that is, you said you dont really approach the guiding from the looking to see that there is no self, but instead on seeing the mental constructs and conditioning , that we are are just thoughts and beliefs and such and thus could never be a real self. I find this approach resonates with me more, I am still not totally grokking about looking , looking in many ways, and then there is no need to look once you look enough times. That doesnt really work in that way for me.

On another note, I have realised that if I try to pinpoint a thought, I cannot really isolate it, I always thought this was some sort of defect on my part but what I am realizing is that the thought itself, whatever it is, can’t really be seen, it just kind of evaporates. It’s not a thing, and cannot be discerned with the senses, I feel that’s kind of a new thing that I grokked. Thoughts really can NEVER be real, even if what they are saying might be true, I never really saw this before. Hmmmm

And, so this leads to something else, what I am realizing more and more, is that it’s just all sensation, like everything in my experience seems to just upon examination end up being pure sensation of some sort. Tell me if this is making sense.

Also, I did not know that there was an interview with you and Luchana so I watched that too. I really enjoyed it Vince, it was nice to hear your story, and it was very lovely to see where you live and your beautiful garden and your bonsai wow. So nice. At one point when both of you guys were having some interference issues, I kept hearing what sounded like a chicken clucking or a cock crowing, I have no idea what that was but it was kind of funny and poignant lol. Also I resonate so much with that you said about how within a generation this world could change if we taught children in school mindfulness and about their thoughts. It seems so obvious, Anyway…. I guess it will happen in its own time , or not , I am not so worried about saving the world though every day I still continually marvel and not in a good way at its brokenness. Seems to be getting worse

WEll, i think this is enough for today. I am continually noticing when I am caught up in stories, and sometimes I might keep going back there, but the noticing is happening.
Xoxxo
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

these meetings are really helpful indeed.

Good. Yes, I think that even those that don't think that they have had a shift are really helpful to each other.

I have really grasped that the sense of self never goes, its just knowing that its not real. It’s the character. It’s needed to exist in this world.

Yes, this is big. When it's seen as an offering, a helper and not some controller that often wants to punish us, that we can be friends with it. (the SENSE of self)

you don't really approach the guiding from the looking to see that there is no self, but instead on seeing the mental constructs and conditioning

It's kind of the same thing. When we can recognize concept then we realize that the self is a concept that we have been conditioned to believe is something actual.

I am still not totally grokking about looking

Change the word "looking" into recognizing.
re-cogniz-ing, again cognizant.

that the thought itself, whatever it is, can’t really be seen, it just kind of evaporates. It’s not a thing, and cannot be discerned with the senses, I feel that’s kind of a new thing that I grokked.

Yes, yes. They are as real as anything you see at the movies. ..and they don't exist when the projector stopps rolling.

what I am realizing more and more, is that it’s just all sensation, like everything in my experience seems to just upon examination end up being pure sensation of some sort. Tell me if this is making sense.

Yes, good sense. These sensations which make up much of experience is all that is actual.

I am not so worried about saving the world though every day I still continually marvel and not in a good way at its brokenness. Seems to be getting worse

The quickest way out of a mind quandry is to focus on the body. ..and on the way there, ask yourself this; "is there anything wrong with what is happening right here right now?"

with love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

just a quick one as I wanted to tell you that I am traveling tomorrow until the following Friday so I will be away for ten days, if I can I will write, going to help this Ukrainian woman and her daughter and dog move to Canada, my brother and husband will be there for part of the time .

Going to respond to your last post shortly

Take care
Xoxxo
Diana

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

It’s been a while here. Thanks for hosting that meeting on Sunday, it was very helpful.

As I stated there, I don’t identify with being a non awake or awake person. But I don’t think the shift has occurred because you always say you would know,

So, i feel kind of stuck tbh.

I have really grasped that the sense of self never goes, its just knowing that its not real. It’s the character. It’s needed to exist in this world.

Yes, this is big. When it's seen as an offering, a helper and not some controller that often wants to punish us, that we can be friends with it. (the SENSE of self)

Sometimes though I still find it judging and bothersome, I sometimes resist it, and it’s noisy.

And yet , I do

realize that the self is a concept that we have been conditioned to believe is something actual

.
I completely realise this. Sometimes I get a glimpse that I and others go through life in a phony contracted state, thinking that it’s all real, these escapades of the self, when this happens I get a sinking feeling because I see it’s not real, this sounds strange writing it, who on earth gets this sinking feeling, can’t quite explain it, just doesn’t feel good to see this. What I mean is the insight is good, but the feeling is being sad and trapped in that ridiculous movie and then something judges that.

I

i am still not totally grokking about looking
Change the word "looking" into recognizing.
re-cogniz-ing, again cognizant.

Ok. I am recognizing plenty

what I am realizing more and more, is that it’s just all sensation, like everything in my experience seems to just upon examination end up being pure sensation of some sort. Tell me if this is making sense.

Yes, good sense. These sensations which make up much of experience is all that is actual

.

Yes they make up much of experience that is actual, then there are also the thoughts which then lead to the escapades of the self as I jut discussed, contents of these thoughts are not real,most thoughts not real and we are all for the most buying into them. Thoughts lead into emotions which are another kind of thought but seem to be a Velcroing together with body sensations and uncomfortable thoughts. What makes a thought ‘uncomfortable' is something which occurs I should explore.

I don’t remember which one but on some thread I read about the thoughts about the self are no different really for say the thoughts of your uncle or whomever That never occurred to me, of course the thoughts about one's self seem so much more 'special', but ultimately are not any different, everything I can say about my so called self comes down to thoughts. Maybe I should try to pretend I’m someone different for a day, see what happens. 🤣

There’s existence, or whatever we want to call it, ok, so RIGHT NOW, what’s happening? Hearing music, other sounds from outside bedroom. Seeing this ipad , and what is in my peripheral vision ( a concept in itself since it’s really seamless ). Fingers are tapping away and I have no idea what is going to be typed until it’s typed. Life is here. Now.

Ok, music playing triggers emotions here, tears even, memories, as this is typed, memory of a recent dream last night , very vague, someone was saying that they have their memories and Diana said that there are no such things as memories really. Memory is another thought existing for a nanosecond then gone like everything else . Ever changing , recurring. Impermanent thought we take them to be so real and rigid.

Been noticing in life how it flows, it flies , things working themselves out , or not, the planning and stuff is superfluous fluff for the most part.

In this ever changing moment, when looked at, music, touching of fingertips on screen, taste of coffee
—————————————————————-
Ok So one came to the house that I had to go deal with so that threw me off, lost that momentum of commenting on what was happening then. Then? Then was now if you know what I mean . Now it’s a new now.

The quickest way out of a mind quandry is to focus on the body. ..and on the way there, ask yourself this; "is there anything wrong with what is happening right here right now?"

Yes focusing on the body does bring you out of thoughts and the mind narrative.

i have really grasped that the sense of self never goes, its just knowing that its not real. It’s the character. It’s needed to exist in this world.

Yes, this is big. When it's seen as an offering, a helper and not some controller that often wants to punish us, that we can be friends with it. (the SENSE of self)

As I was saying on Sunday, I’m still not there as seeing it always as an offering, but will set that intention


Seeking is still present, what do I need for that last push Vince?

Sorry this was a bit disjointed, the world calls

Xoxxo
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

because you always say you would know,

Yes, until you know, you still identify as not knowing. ..but that knowing might sneak up on you and not arrive with a bang.
When you do know, you will recognize when you have been not knowing. When old habits kick in and you act like you believe that a separate self exists, or that the doomsday story is actually going to happen. That recognition happens even quicker after you know than it did before you did.

So, i feel kind of stuck tbh.

"If a dirt, a dirt." (I looked up some Jamacian slang - I like this one)

Sometimes though I still find it judging and bothersome, I sometimes resist it, and it’s noisy.

"If a dirt, a dirt."

just doesn’t feel good to see this. What I mean is the insight is good, but the feeling is being sad and trapped in that ridiculous movie and then something judges that.

I get that. It's a bit of an existential hole. Don't worry, once you see fully (experientially) the beauty shines through.
We've spent years scaring our selves with these apocalypse stories.

What makes a thought ‘uncomfortable' is something which occurs I should explore.

Yes. Explore this. A great exercise.

Maybe I should try to pretend I’m someone different for a day, see what happens. 🤣

Another good exercise. Perhaps you could pretend to be a diana that is awake. (or not)

fluff for the most part.

Ha, love it (and so true)

Seeking is still present, what do I need for that last push Vince?

As I keep telling myself at golf. "Relax and let it happen."
No "pushing" is required.

Sorry this was a bit disjointed, the world calls

No worries & yes it does that, doesn't it.

with love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

I want to apologize that I haven't posted for so darn long yet I know its pointless, it just happened, on one level I am mad at myself. But how stupid is that really, all just thoughts, that being said, I know this conversation will be more productive if I take the time to engage more.

Life is so up and down, yesterday I was feeling quite cheery, today I'm a bit down in the dumps. No apparent reason, instead of judging and going into thoughts, I am just watching it like the weather. Well, that's the intention.

These days I feel a mixture of peace and insights that arise, along with ups and downs, feeling like I don't have enough time, worries of the future peek their head in from time to time as I watch the madness of the word and its economy and everything happening. Sometimes it seems like the weather is very very stormy, other times, I can row my boat and flow gently down the stream. Perhaps this is just how life is. I know nothing. The desire for equanimity is there though, an expectation maybe.

As I write this and go back to my last post, I realize I am writing much of the same, about this noticing and watching of the flowing of life, etc.

The quickest way out of a mind quandry is to focus on the body. ..and on the way there, ask yourself this; "is there anything wrong with what is happening right here right now?"

Today I am in a mind quandary, yesterday the word seemed right, today it's foggy, trying to figure out why this is when it could be purely physical or WHATEVER, is so pointless. Stop trying to figure it out Diana. Maybe I can honor the lowness, the sluggishness, the weariness ,the sadness even. For that too is life and wants to exist somehow.

So , no, there is nothing wrong with what is happening right now .

O to your last post, which we have both forgotten, of course. :)

because you always say you would know,

Yes, until you know, you still identify as not knowing. ..but that knowing might sneak up on you and not arrive with a bang.
When you do know, you will recognize when you have been not knowing. When old habits kick in and you act like you believe that a separate self exists, or that the doomsday story is actually going to happen. That recognition happens even quicker after you know than it did before you did.

I still identify as not knowing, but also I certainly recognize when I have not been knowing and see when old habits kick in and when the domesday story kicks in. Because otherwise , when I know, or intuit that everything is alright, it seems too simple, too perfect, nothing to figure out, can it be this simple? Just keep coming back to the present moment, to the sensations, to nature, to what is real, can this really be it?

So, i feel kind of stuck tbh.

"If a dirt, a dirt." (I looked up some Jamacian slang - I like this one)

Sometimes though I still find it judging and bothersome, I sometimes resist it, and it’s noisy.

"If a dirt, a dirt."

So you looking up Jamaican slang made me grin from ear to ear. The Caribbean people have the best slangs, and it is amazing how each island is so different from the other, like that is a saying that no-one in Trinidad would know unless connected to a Jamaican. There was a book that came out years ago and its on the internet too, called 'cote-ce cote-la' all with Trinidad expressions and sayings, brilliant stuff, some of them not used so much anymore. You would love it! These sayings oftentimes give us an insight into something that regular language just cannot! Like myths and fables.

So I looked it up and it basically means 'it is what it is', making me come back once again to "it's whatever'. Since I started off taking about the ups and downs of life being like the weather, this too fits with that, weather is uncontrollable, it just is what it is and we can choose to argue with it, which I used to do all the time when going to the beach and it started to rain, or not. One causes way more suffering. So..... sometimes I feel stuck, well so be it, sometimes I resist, sometimes I judge myself and others, I feel resistance, I feel bothered and so on and so on, IT IS WHAT IT IS . Arguing with reality doesn't help.

So I am finding myself both in the existential hole and also seeing this and seeing the beauty that shines through.

What makes a thought ‘uncomfortable' is something which occurs I should explore.

Yes. Explore this. A great exercise.

Perfect for today when I find myself a bit in the existential hole. A thought is a thought is a thought, yet some seem to lead to better 'feelings '; than others. What is this and is this true? Ok, lets do this super simply, I feel sluggish and a bit foggy headed today (for no apparent reason), so... a bodily sensation(s) was noticed, Then thoughts were noticed that judged these sensations and more thoughts occurred about NOT wanting thesesensations to be there (RESISTANCE), judgements, (also RESISTANCE), more thoughts and beliefs and feelings (these all seem to be lumped together) wanting sensations and feelings to go away, leading to mental suffering. Thus uncomfortable which is itself just a concept, and subjective. If I really keep drilling down into uncomfortable thoughts, there seems to be a common thread, and that is always not wanting them to be there and resisting them. Thinking that something is 'wrong' with these thoughts, they are not accepted like in the saying if a dirt a dirt. Trying to make dirt into fairy dust! Good luck with that, still going to be dirt, or rain at the beach or feeling sluggish or whatever, until that changes which seems to be the constant , that even state will indeed change.

That's it. That's all I have. I could go into conditioning and mental stuff and all that mumbo jumbo but at its essence uncomfortable thoughts are labeled as such because they arise out of a "belief" (which is just another thought), that they shouldn't be there.

I'll end with this quote from your last post

Seeking is still present, what do I need for that last push Vince?

As I keep telling myself at golf. "Relax and let it happen."
No "pushing" is required.

Yes, that's it isn't it, relax, unclench, stop, rest, so simple......

xoxox

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

I want to apologize

Don't...

No apparent reason, instead of judging and going into thoughts, I am just watching it like the weather. Well, that's the intention.

..tick.

Perhaps this is just how life is.

..tick.

I know nothing.

Very good. double tick.

The desire for equanimity is there though,

good seeing...
Is your expectation that it will be permanent? ..or occasional? or frequent?

Maybe I can honor the lowness, the sluggishness, the weariness ,the sadness even.

Yes. With respect and acceptance these usually don't persist. ..and we don't need to find a reason why they are visiting. (unless it's worthy of seeing a doctor)

when I know, or intuit that everything is alright, it seems too simple, too perfect, nothing to figure out, can it be this simple?

Yes, yes! It is that simple.

but at its essence uncomfortable thoughts are labeled as such because they arise out of a "belief" (which is just another thought), that they shouldn't be there.

..and seeing this as it happens will bring about change.

Yes, that's it isn't it, relax, unclench, stop, rest, so simple......

Yes, all I can do is hold your hand. You know everything that you need to. Keep going, you're so close.

with love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

Ok, well we will just keep going then, with you holding my hand whilst I row my boat through gentle waters , and sometimes hang on to it for dear life through rapids. I teeter totter between thinking I’m close and wondering if I will ever get this.

I dont expect that the equanimity will be permanent, just maybe that being able to come into balance would be easier and less suffering.

Thanks for the reassurance that it really is that simple

but at its essence uncomfortable thoughts are labeled as such because they arise out of a "belief" (which is just another thought), that they shouldn't be there.

..and seeing this as it happens will bring about change.

Ok, so I will just notice when it happens, its happening right now but with a sensation as I am sitting outside typing this as its finally in the 80’s instead of the 90’s but I am getting eaten alive by bugs, so the sensations are annoying , the thoughts are I wish it wasnt so, if a dirt a dirt lol

ALso, right now, my hubby came out and I am getting very annoyed by him and feel my blood pressure rising big time. Resistance again



Finally,


Saw this today on a WhatsApp group I’m on, thought you would like it.

The Peace Of Wild Things
By Wendall Berry

When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.


Xoxxo
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

whilst I row my boat through gentle waters

No need to row. or even steer. Just enjoy the ride.

hang on to it for dear life through rapids

If you knew that you would survive them would you still get white knuckled?

I teeter totter between thinking I’m close and wondering if I will ever get this.

Ha yes. ..and even after you 'get it' you will still teeter totter wondering if it is actually IT. (in the beginning)

just maybe that being able to come into balance would be easier and less suffering.

This comes and goes too.

the sensations are annoying , the thoughts are I wish it wasnt so,

Good noticing.

if a dirt a dirt

Yes. love it...

my hubby came out and I am getting very annoyed by him and feel my blood pressure rising big time. Resistance again

More good noticing.
When you notice it, do you see the funny side of it?

Saw this today on a WhatsApp group I’m on, thought you would like it.

I like the message if a but wordy.
let me offer a haiku with the same message but way more succinct.
When life isn't great
and nature shines in my eye,
Wonder then prevails.


with love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

Thanks for the reply, it’s nice to be engaging with you again, or whatever you want to call this, conversing, sharing, mirroring .

No need to row. or even steer. Just enjoy the ride.

Yes yes, advanced level stuff, though when the ride is rocky, but even then better not to steer and trust instead

If you knew that you would survive them would you still get white knuckled?

No, if I 'knew', I would not, so there must still be a level of fear and not absolute trust. A Hurricane is coming our way mid next week by the way.

When you notice it, do you see the funny side of it?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no tbh. But usually when I can observe and not get totally caught up then I can see the humor, even whilst seemingly at the same time annoyance, the question is s it really at the same time or am I flitting between?

You are right that the poem was a bit wordy when I ponder it now

I realised that the lines I like the best and say it all are

I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things

Which is much what you little haiku says

When life isn't great
and nature shines in my eye,
Wonder then prevails.

There is so much peace and wonder in nature, in the wild things.

Happy weekend, I want to come to the zoom meet up tomorrow, my son is driving back from Texas and is arriving tomorrow, been gone since May, depending on what time he gets home I might not be able to attend so just going with the flow
Xoxo

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

depending on what time he gets home I might not be able to attend so just going with the flow

Let's see what life decides.. (I hope that you can make it - you seem to get good stuff from them)

with love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince,

SO sorry I missed yesterday, it was right up my alley, I have listened to the recording and got so much out of it. I had all these things I wanted to mention, and now that I am done it all escapes me. Well it really resonated, everyone , Leona is lovely and always has something wise to say. Paul really explains things so well and I enjoyed Tom I think it is, he had some good insights. And of course You, it was really really good and I thoroughly enjoyed it, I really hope I will be able to make the next one.

Where shall we go next my friend?

xoxo
D

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

Where shall we go next my friend?

After pondering this question for a full 5 minutes, I have to say that I have no idea. i think that the student now knows more than the teacher.
i think that the best thing for you is to guide but we have to get you over the line first. For this you need to feel confident that you have seen that there is no self lurking anywhere.

with much love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince

Ok so we both don’t know where to go next lol

How to get over the line as you put it?

I grok, see, that there is no self lurking anywhere.

Many times I do forget and get caught up in streams of thoughts. Which may include identity thoughts, I I still at times identify with mind, however I think probably so do many that have 'crashed ' the gate.

There is still some seeking , though it’s way way less than before.

what do you think I need to focus or not focus on?

Xoxxo
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Hi Diana, help me with this one...
run through these and apply them to yourself.
How do they fit?
What is missing?

vinces test@have they got it

1. The tone should be light, humble, confident, humorous, relaxed, excited,
2. It should be clear that only direct experiencing is actual and that the nature of that is that it is fleeting and always gives birth to stories (to explain or describe it)
3. ..also clear that everything that the mind produces is conceptual.
4. That we respond to mind produced concepts
5. The idea of a self is seen to be just that, an idea. A story built up over a lifetime that was responded to as if it was actual and needed defending and bolstering. (Sometimes called the ego)
6. It is seen that Truth, Enlightenment, morality, right, wrong, good, bad, responsibility, etc are all social constructed concepts that we previously responded to as if they were actual.
7. It is seen clearly that choice, decisions, intentions, control, free will, etc are all mind induced illusions (previously delusions)
8. Expectations are seen as thoughts. (Fantasy) it is appreciated that shit will still happen (we just won’t react to it like we used to) No permanent anything - especially bliss.
9. There are differences from before in the way that we respond to many circumstances.
10. It is appreciated that this is a (kind of) beginning and that there is always more…
11. Seeking is dropped. That is it is replaced by discovery. Wonder and curiosity.
12. Questions no longer have to be answered. (Nothing is known) Yet everything necessary is available.
13.


vince