Looking again

[Bobi]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I'll be guided through questions, pointers and dialogue to see through the illusion of a separate self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'd look to look again.
I have been through the process before but doubt real seeing has taken place. I recently watched some of the YouTube videos on the liberation unleashed channel. I felt that I did not see clearly last time. I was keen and full of expectations to find something and be liberated. Now I'm much more relaxed about it but cannot ignore I feel and think there is more to see.

How to look ?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be guided to clear seeing of no inherent separate self.

Help with how to look. How to really see. To be guided again.

I feel there is more to be seen.
Expecting a guide to guide me through looking.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
10 years mindfulness meditation, mbsr, zen and chan meditation.

Have been through the forum before

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[AwayKen127]

Hi Bobi (or what may I call you?) My name is Jeff. I can be your guide if you like. Would you please share the link to your prior thread on LU?

Warmly,
Jeff

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for your reply.

Rob is fine

Here is the previous thread. Hope the link works. It was titled "Falling into"

viewtopic.php?t=6427

Thanks

Rob

[AwayKen127]

Hi Rob,
It's a long thread! I'm going through it slowly. In a few days, I'll be ready to begin. Is that okay?
Jeff

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

Yes, no problem

Thank you

Rob

[AwayKen127]

Hi Rob,
Please tell me more about your experience at LU, the immediate aftermath, how things unfolded in the following 4 years and when, and how you came to doubt that real seeing had taken place.
Jeff

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

It's been a long time but the main points are after the experience at LU there was some peace and deeper experience day to day but there was also, if I'm honest, some disappointment. I felt/thought I hadn't seen even though my dialogue I confirmed the final questions it didn't feel like a complete and undeniable closure. Some doubt I suppose.
I was also full of expectation and possibly greed for some kind of experience. I'd read Gateless Gatecrashers and I think I wanted what they had experienced or seen. I know not everybody has a boom, aha seeing and often seeing can be very gentle and slow. That's how it has been for me.

The last 4 years I have learned to accept life as it is right here and now, even the hard parts, especially the hard parts. This, paradoxically is liberation. Liberation from the wishing it were different and grasping and trying for something different. What remains when all that stops, Just This.
This was in some ways disappointing as it's easy to fall into ideas of enlightenment and freedom.

So I have always thought that I didn't see but I let it go.
But recently I viewed some YouTube videos from Liberation unleashed and it struck me how everyone had no doubt on having seen.

I still have doubt and thought I'd open a thread to see if there was a guide willing to kick this around.

Thanks for your time Jeff

Rob

[AwayKen127]

Hi Rob,

I have seen many threads on LU where the client has doubts and the guide says, "lower your expectations". Then, once in a while, I see a thread where someone has a "boom" experience and has unshakeable confidence in their awakening, and this may have been preceded by temporary "awakenings" that didn't last. I am not one of the boomers. If "boom" is what you're looking for, I don't think I can help. Having read your thread, I don't see how the guiding could have been better and I was convinced that you saw through the illusion of the separate self. I know that you know that doubts are just empty thoughts, since all thoughts are empty of meanings. Absolute acceptance of what is is complete liberation. I think you see that, too.

I'll post to LU Guide Central on Facebook to ask another guide to take over. If not, I'm happy to have a dialog with you. In the meantime, I think you would very much enjoy and benefit from fortnightly Zoom meetings with a group of guides led by Vince Schubert. See the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8702

Hope to see you there!
Best,
Jeff

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for your reply.

I reflected today and felt the need to clarify. Disappointed is such a strong word. I didn't mean to imply disappointment with the guiding or LU. I suppose it was a more unrealistic expectations. The mind can conjure up lots of ideas.
That's all they are though, ideas

Boom is just an idea. I don't want to go off on a wild goose chase again, chasing some idea of what life could be, all the while missing the rich beauty of the life that is unfolding right here and now.

I love what you say here:

I know that you know that doubts are just empty thoughts, since all thoughts are empty of meanings. Absolute acceptance of what is is complete liberation. I think you see that, too.

Absolute acceptance of what is.

Thank you for the reminder. That's all I needed

Thanks

Rob

[AwayKen127]

Hi Rob,

Well, you sure made it easy! Kindly indulge me and answer two little questions if you like:
1. What is being resisted?
2. What is resisting?

Jeff

[AwayKen127]

Or don't answer, if that seems best to you.

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

Great questions

What is being resisted?

It could open up a can of worms and provide a big list of what is being resisted such as thoughts, feelings, emotions, situations, pain, this that and the other etc

But I suppose the short answer is thoughts or ideas which are themselves empty. So in a way, nothing.


2. What is resisting

The thought that says this should be different.

What if the only thing stopping us being at peace is the thought that says I'm not at peace?

Is it really that simple?

Thanks

Rob

[AwayKen127]

2. What is resisting

The thought that says this should be different.

Can a thought resist anything? Or is "resistance" just an empty thought?

Is it possible for this to be different?

What if the only thing stopping us being at peace is the thought that says I'm not at peace?

Do thoughts cause suffering? Or is it believing the thoughts and identifying with them what we call "suffering"?

Regards,
Jeff

[Cloudberry]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the questions

Leave this with me
Let me look into it


Cheers

Rob

[AwayKen127]

Okay, Rob. I'll be offline Friday through Monday.
Jeff