Hello!

[Meri]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that our "self" is not a solid separated entity. It is a belief, an identification with the main character of the story called "my life", a narrative that we constantly feed through thoughts and never question. A separate self doesn't exist in reality and yet it feels so real in our minds.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for an experiential realization of the absence of a separate self. It's been only understood mentally up to now and I feel like the help of a guide could help me to see it clearly. From this realization I expect to reduce the amount of suffering that is so closely tied to the sense of separation that I feel.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be guided in the process of questioning my identity by someone who has already seen it through. Up to now I've walked this path by myself but I feel a little stuck right now. I hope that interacting with a guide can help me simplify this process.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I watch a lot of videos on non duality and I have read a few books by Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, Mooji.
I used to meditate regularly but right now I don't follow any meditation routine, I only sit in meditation when I feel like it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Luchana]

Hi Mary and welcome to the forum.

I've jsut replied you in the video guiding topic.

Sending much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

so lovely to meet you!

Like we spoke here are some questions to start with.

Spend time with each one of them and reply what comes up.

What do you expect from the realization that there is no separate self?

How will life change?

How will you change?

What do you hope to be different?



Sending love
Luchana

[Meri]

Hi Luchana!

It was lovely to meet you, too :)

Thank you, I'll sit with them for a while and see what comes up.

With love,
Mary

[Meri]

Good morning Luchana :)

What do you expect from the realization that there is no separate self?

Probably there is an expectation based on past experiences that realizing it will bring a profound sense of peace and freedom.

How will life change?

I don't really know. I guess it will go on as always, only the relationship to life will change. Maybe it will feel like it's flowing spontaneously and effortlessly without the need to control it.

How will you change?

I hope I will be more serene, satisfied with life as it is. I suppose that when the idea of being a separate self is seen through, a lot of the mental suffering revolving around the idea of having to defend and strengthen the self vanishes. So I hope to let go all of these stories about being a failure, about not being enough smart/successful/sociable/interesting ...

What do you hope to be different?

Overall I hope the realization will bring less resistance and suffering. Less concern about the future and less attachment to ideas about how life should or shouldn't be.

With love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

Thank you for your reply regarding expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. It's quite common that very easy one can miss the obvious because is expecting something to happen, to change, to, disappear etc. Even what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation.

From my experience I can share with you that it's never, ever the way we expected to be.

Probably there is an expectation based on past experiences that realizing it will bring a profound sense of peace and freedom.

Lovely that you see that expectation - yea, like we spoke already these past experiences are exactly that - past experiences :-) And like all experiences - they come and go. We can enjoy them while they last, however what we are looking here is not an experience, nor it is not a special state to abide. Peace and freedom may or may not happen. These are not our goal in the investigation.

I don't really know. I guess it will go on as always, only the relationship to life will change. Maybe it will feel like it's flowing spontaneously and effortlessly without the need to control it.

I'm smiling at the first sentence :-) YES. No one really knows. Life goes as always, because there is no you even now.
And there never was a control to begin with it just feels like that at the moment, only for now. And it is ok. We will look at the concept of control later.

I hope I will be more serene, satisfied with life as it is. I suppose that when the idea of being a separate self is seen through, a lot of the mental suffering revolving around the idea of having to defend and strengthen the self vanishes. So I hope to let go all of these stories about being a failure, about not being enough smart/successful/sociable/interesting ...

Sweet :-)
We all want to be serene and satisfied with life as it is. We all want to live in peace and with very less painful emotions - that’s natural for us as human beings. But no one can say in advance, for each one is different. Old traumas, hidden wounds, are not going to disappear with a magic stick, just because the self is seen through.


Actually freedom is not from, but WITH.

The idea of being a faliture and the rest that goes with that is the glue which hold the main belief. We will look at this belief - is there someone at the first place who can fail?

Overall I hope the realization will bring less resistance and suffering. Less concern about the future and less attachment to ideas about how life should or shouldn't be.

Not bad as an expectation :-) Again - no one knows in advance. The self cannot imagine what would be without a self...it can only imagine what it whant for itself. The list is endless and almost always doesn't bring satisfaction for long. As you probably already noticed.:-)


It will be better to leave all the expectations aside and dive into this inquiry completly fresh.

Please read my comments several times and see your expecrations from a different perspective.

Is there a resistance to any of it?

Much love
Luchana

[Meri]

Hi Luchana!
Thank you for your beautiful response, I've contemplated it for a while :-)

The self cannot imagine what would be without a self...it can only imagine what it wants for itself.

Right. I can see how all these expectations make sense only under the assumption that there is a self to begin with. And this self, being defined by a clear sense of separation and lack, is always in search of something to suppress this condition.

It will be better to leave all the expectations aside and dive into this inquiry completly fresh. Is there a resistance to any of it?

For now, it requires an act of faith to let all expectations go and trust the process without looking for any particular outcome, but it feels instinctively right. I don't feel any strong resistance. I mean, I can see how the mind is not liking it. Thoughts like “What am I doing it for then? What is the point?” are popping up, but I also get how the self cannot see outside of itself. So I can ignore them and see what happens.

See you tomorrow for our live conversation :-)

With love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Mary,

For now, it requires an act of faith to let all expectations go and trust the process without looking for any particular outcome, but it feels instinctively right. I don't feel any strong resistance. I mean, I can see how the mind is not liking it. Thoughts like “What am I doing it for then? What is the point?” are popping up, but I also get how the self cannot see outside of itself. So I can ignore them and see what happens.

:-)

Trust the process - is it already started.

I'm glad to read that there is no resistant, at least no strong.

Will send you some questions to look after our meeting today.

Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Mery,

after our meeting here is something to look at:


You will need a sheet of paper and a pen and 5-10 min time.
Sit and write the first 10 thoughts in the exact order, in which they are coming. When you finish read them and reply:

When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?

Did you know the order when you started doing this?

Did you arrange the thoughts in that particular order exactly?

Do you know which thought will be next before it appears?

Can a thought think?



Take your time and try to completely ignore the content of the thoughts (what they are saying).
Just LOOK, curiously, but vigiland.

Let me know what you find.

Much love,

Luchana

[Meri]

Hi Luchana,
I’ve just completed the exercise :)

When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?

No, I couldn’t expect the last thought when the first one arrived

Did you know the order when you started doing this?

No, I didnt know the order of the thoughts

Did you arrange the thoughts in that particular order exactly?

No, thoughts came spontaneously in that order. I didn’t arrange them.

Do you know which thought will be before it appears?

No, I don’t.

Can a thought think?

No, it cannot think

With love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Meri,

you did a good looking.

Can a thought think?

No, it cannot think

What can a thougth do than?

Also:

What are you doing precisely in order to think?

How do you make a thought into existence?


Much love and till Friday

Luchana

[Meri]

Hey Luchana,
Thank you for our meeting, it cleared up a lot of aspects of thought that I found confusing!

What can a thougth do than?

So as we have seen, a thought can only appear and disappear out of nowhere.

What are you doing precisely in order to think?

I don't do anything in order to think. Thoughts appear without someone to control them; it's an activity of the mind. Even when it seems I am reflecting upon something, taking into account different aspects, making connections(...) it's just an idea that I am doing it, it is an unexamined assumption. In fact if I was doing it I would know how to do it but I actually don't. Haha

How do you make a thought into existence?

I don't make a thought into existence. Thoughts are not made into existence by anyone specific, just as the rain is not rained by anyone. We are used to think in terms of someone/something outside of an event needed to control it, of a subject separate from the action that controls it. I suppose we are wrong :-)

Lots of love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Meri,

Thank you for our meeting, it cleared up a lot of aspects of thought that I found confusing!

So glad to read that! There is a lot of joy here as well :-)

You did a wonderful looking at the questions.

I don't do anything in order to think. Thoughts appear without someone to control them; it's an activity of the mind. Even when it seems I am reflecting upon something, taking into account different aspects, making connections(...) it's just an idea that I am doing it, it is an unexamined assumption. In fact if I was doing it I would know how to do it but I actually don't. Haha

Yes exactly.

How it is known that thoughts are the activity of the mind?

And what is mind when you look at it here now?

I don't make a thought into existence. Thoughts are not made into existence by anyone specific, just as the rain is not rained by anyone. We are used to think in terms of someone/something outside of an event needed to control it, of a subject separate from the action that controls it. I suppose we are wrong :-)

All right, let's look closer with the following exercise

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened)

Take you time and let me know what you find.


Much love,

Luchana

[Meri]

Hi Luchana!

How it is known that thoughts are the activity of the mind?

It is known from presumed knowledge in the form of concepts/ideas so ultimately from thoughts.

And what is mind when you look at it here now?

If I look for the mind here and now I can't find it. I can only find ideas and concepts about it.

From the exercise I found that the thoughts were all about the self, except for one thought about a couple I met on the train yesterday.

Love,
Mary

[Luchana]

Hi Meri,

It is known from presumed knowledge in the form of concepts/ideas so ultimately from thoughts

.

Right. But is there such things as mind in reality?

If I look for the mind here and now I can't find it. I can only find ideas and concepts about it.

Exaxtly! Very good looking 😊

From the exercise I found that the thoughts were all about the self, except for one thought about a couple I met on the train yesterday.

Nice,
Isn't it strange that huge majority of thoughts are about the self?
And what if the only seeming "other" thought is also about the self , me just in a hidden way?

I am the one who saw this couple.
I met the couple.

What if ALL thougjts are about me?