Requesting a guide.

[IainB]

Take half an hour time for it or longer and have a look how the percentage is.

For exercise one the list of thoughts not pointing to direct experience was twice as long. However I think these are even more so, as doing the exercise seemed to trigger more thoughts pointing to the intake of senses than would usually be had.

Share what you find. This time please give a list of examples for both categories.

Pointing towards intake of senses: blue, sunshine, car, warm, thick air, breathing, house, green, girl, brother.

Not pointing to DE: stuff about Ian in a book, analysing life events, stories about other people, analysing the exercise, day and night passing thoughts, about a man I know, cultural infuences, quality of my writing, about my behaviour, about others...

Many more of course in both sets, but similar. Thoughts from the second set were all followed by the knowing that they were not actual (no correlation to the here and now) except for when the exercise was forgotten.

The thing I noticed was that all references to I, me, the character, are only to be found in thoughts that do not point to the actual.

With love, thanks.

[Vivien]

Nice inquiry.

I'm going to give you only one question today. Please make sure that you spend a whole day looking at it repeatedly. Don't rely on any intellectual understanding like "Yes, of course I see it"... rather always look afresh as if you were looking and seeing it for the first time.

Do you notice that the ideas that appear as thoughts are not the same as direct sense experience? That they are something extra that is added on to the immediate experience?

Have a nice day,
Vivien

[IainB]

Do you notice that the ideas that appear as thoughts are not the same as direct sense experience? That they are something extra that is added on to the immediate experience?

I looked at this many times with the colours, sounds, smells and so forth, trying to look afresh each time.

What appears in thought is not that known by the senses. There is a destinction.

Perhaps I could do this further.

Thank you.

[Vivien]

Yes, please do so. Do it until it becomes very clear and experiential, without doubt, that nothing that is happening in thoughts in not real, not actual. That the content of thought simply doesn't exist in reality.

Let me know how it goes.

V

[IainB]

Hi Vivian,

Sorry to drop a reply cycle. I had a big swathe of family and intoxication sweep through, now concluded.

anything that is happening in thoughts is not real, not actual

That the content of thought simply doesn't exist in reality.

These help make clear that there is nothing true in thought. They clear up the doubt that because thought labels that known with the senses, that there may be some validity to thought. They bring a sharp focus to direct experience and engagement with thought naturally falls away as it is not true. Why would you remain engaged within thought when it is known all thought content/story is non existent.

It may be benefitial to do some more here.

Much love.

[Vivien]

OK, stay with this for another day... let me know what you find.

Have a nice day,
V

[IainB]

That which I have been so consumed with; spent so much time with; has been so prominent; has no realness to it whatsoever.

Every moment is as good as any other to notice this.

Of course I'm often pulled away into thought content and there is a forgetting that the content holds no truth.

[Vivien]

Yes, but there is more to it than just remembering that thought content isn't true or real.

It's about SEEING that there is no self/me anywhere in reality... thoughts talk ABOUT it... but where is it?

Where is the I right now? In reality?

Thoughts talk ON BEHALF of an I, but where is the entity that thoughts talk on behalf?

[IainB]

thoughts talk ABOUT it... but where is it?

I can see that thoughts do include direct references to me, I, and what concerns mine, among what else they refer to.

And with these thoughts come a familiarity, a belief, that me and I hold some realness and aliveness.

Of course these are thoughts only, and when I look I simply find a body moving, a life and world unfolding and always in change and known in the senses, but with none of that real I/me/mine that is in thought.

My motivation dropped away for a time but I hope it returns. I enjoyed the days where as soon as I awoke there was a knowing to look at thought as it took place and to robustly question each thought and see that what it refers to has no truth. This was radical, fun, and did work, really getting my attention.

I will take your pointers below and work intensively with them.

Thank you.

[Vivien]

Thank you for your update. I'm looking forward to hearing more...

have a nice day, V

[IainB]

Hi Vivian,

Today was powerful. I was able to grasp looking from the moment I awoke and look lots during my busy working day, which I have never really before.

Simply looking directly right now and knowing 'where is this I?', not finding it and just patiently and robustly looking.

I love catching the I/me/my as it appears in the thought narrative, grabbing the opportunity and going for it: what and where is this I then in the actual here and now?

Where is that I/me/my? Attention is pulled to the sensation closest to home, in the chest/andomen.

I can see how knowing the not real of thought creates a pull into the actual here and now.

"Focus the attention on the experience of this present moment": now seems so illusive, it simply streams past, so uncatchable, but if that is all there is so be it.

I don't think you could provide any clearer points than those last ones.

What could be more clear than knowing when I/me/my appears in the thought stream, grabbing it, then simply looking for that which is not here in the actual?

By default thought adds I/me/mine to the equation. How on earth did it come up with I/me/mine? Thought creates a pull within the narrative, supposes a relevance to the circumstances of now, then stacks the dice with the I/me/mine personalisation/ownership.

I saved more of a similarish theme as short audio messages or written on my hand while out but that's probably enough for now. It's good to get the ball rolling.

With love.

[Vivien]

Nice :)

Now, look at this 'voice in the head'. Imagine that you are in a train station and there are frequent announcements from the loudspeaker about the arrival and departure of trains.

Is this mental voice any different to the announcements coming from the loudspeaker?

Are you actively doing the announcement? Or you are just passively 'hearing' it, just as you'd hear the announcements of train arrivals?

Is there a real entity/person behind those mental announcements?

Do you have anything to do with that mental voice?

Is that voice conscious?

[IainB]

I seem 'trained' to believe in thought. Thought was busy objecting today: If I don't tune into thought, how will I know what to do? and similar. No doubt all best ignored (but perhaps not the sort of stuff that will drop away overnight...)

An old rather instinctive excuse arose: Thought is known / thought appears in Me (and hence has some truth or relevence) and similar stories. This of course is not the question, the question being do I have anything to do with thought?

This truth of no self is both 'fully here' and somewhat illusive, both remembered and forgotten.

It's all a bit of a magical illusive un-pin-down-able life flow. I want to be focused on seeing/your guiding but suddenly it's change again and again: I find myself deep in conversation, or deep in a compelling thought, or simply day dreaming, or getting intoxicated, or believing that I simply must deeply engage in a project to fix some other part of my house or plan for a holiday, occupation stuff too has a big pull. I do come back though.

Enough excuses.

I thought later in the day how I love and value your guiding because it is directly about my lived experience. What could be more intimate than staring directly at the game thought plays. This could not get closer to home.

I remembered how important it is to make this looking enquiry distinct and vivid as thoughts roll out. At times I cought myself just repeating the key guide points in thought without actualy doing them. Lazy/naughty - not to give myself a hard time.

It's good to grab the situation by the scruff of the neck (the opportunity to look a lot).

Is this mental voice any different to the announcements coming from the loudspeaker?

No because both take place utterly without any choosing.

Is there any realness (or real entity/conciousness etc) to the mental announcements?

I saw (briefly) with absolute clarity that to really really know this is the jackpot. Like a very definite shaking off of shakles. That the cloud thought is not real.

I also get a sense that to really really see this of course cannot be unseen - I've never had that before.

I used all your points below lots over the day. Nice, fun, revolutionary stuff.

With love.

[Vivien]

I seem 'trained' to believe in thought. Thought was busy objecting today: If I don't tune into thought, how will I know what to do? and similar. No doubt all best ignored (but perhaps not the sort of stuff that will drop away overnight...)

What happens if you don't just ignore it, but investigate that thought:

Is this thought aware?
Does this thought know what it's about?
Is it an entity on its own right?
Can a thought actually know anything, or rather it's just presenting some stuff?

An old rather instinctive excuse arose: Thought is known / thought appears in Me

And what about this thought?

Is this thought aware?
Is this thought actually know what it is presenting / 'saying'?

Investigate thoughts along these lines.

V

[IainB]

Vivian,

No, thought is not an aware entity, it is 'dumb'.

I (knowing-I-am) am aware of the comments in thought (as opposed to thought being aware of itself).

That which thought presents or is about isn't actual, so how can that which is not actual somehow know itself?

Thought is not a seperate entity piggy backing onto me. Previously I may have believed thought was an integral informative part of what I am...

I recall the LU grafitti analogy - grafitti may express a narrative and symbols, but that colour painted on the wall knows nothing of what it is.

Thoughts are like clouds: seen/known and past, not another being nor a defining integral part of me.

The scenarious and characters in thought content are two dimensional, like the image boxes of a cartoon, there's not another life hiding in there.

With love,