no ego

[Dhamma]

Dear Vivien,

Thank you for your questions.

Please spend another week just looking the idea of control and intention. Then come back and share how it went.

Somehow it has been a difficult week. Looking at the idea of control and intention was ok. In my business life I had to struggle with the fear of not finding sufficient clients. For example when I had a negative answer to an application to a call for tender this week I could see: Indeed thoughts do what they like, feelings do what they like. I could also see this on other occasions.

I don't know if I progressed on this. I have been looking at how things were happening on many occasions and at the associated thoughts throughout the week. Very often they just happen without any thought going into their direction before. They just happen. Sometimes a thought occurs before ("I shoud call my parents") and then the action happens. Sometimes a feeling happens before ("hungry") and then the action happens. Sometimes something is seen (the dirty cup is on the desk) and then the action happens without much thought (cup is washed). This last kind of thing happens a lot. There seems to be something like a general intention (let's go to the garden) but then all the details happen on their own. Just like writing right now. When talking to someone, speech just happens. Speech appears to be faster than thinking. It seems to occur almost without thinking most of the time. I believe that it is here where somehow it is still assumed that there is a doer. Though when I look I cannot find him.

I cannot observe when I am absorbed in reading or writing. I just read or write then. I have to pause to observe. It is also more difficult when talking to someone. I get immersed in the exchange.

I often asked throughout this week if there is a controller. Intellectually this seems absurd. But I know we are not dealing with intelectual stuff here. The fear was real. There was/is fear of Yorck failing in business/ in life. I can see: this is a projection towards the future. But it means that the story is still projected. Despite all looking. So where is the controller? Where is the one who could fail?

How to just take a backseat in this movieshow? Let the fear be. Let thoughts be. Let the actions be. Just keep practicing looking as much as possible?

Well, if there is no awareness of things just happening on their own, then it’s believed that “I am doing it”, isn’t it?

No doubt that this is still believed. When I look I can see that thoughts are happening by themselves. I can also see that many things just happen without prior thought. And some actions do get prior thought but then, the thought just occured by itself. I can see all this (not all the time but I can see it). Still there is the belief in I. Where is this Yorck that could fail?

Do you have an expectation that selfing thought should stop?

There was this expectation, yes.

And in an earlier post you wrote:

Just notice, that most (if not all) your expectations are coming from what you heard/read from others. Or even more precisely… you’ve heard something, that information went through your personal filters of what you like and don’t like, with a result that I want peace, love, bliss, happiness… all the pleasant emotions (but no unpleasant ones) so awakening must give that to me.

I believe this is still a block. Liberation means "free of suffering" to me. What if it is not? The unpleasant feelings are. Fear is. Headache is. Fatigue is. So what about dropping this expectation then? What about just moving together with the painful feelings but not believing the thoughts (just seeing them as thoughts)?

Notice that this is still more or less an analysis.

So just following the actions and the thoughts? You kind of say this in your next comment:

It’s all about SEEING how everything is just happening, including thoughts of intentions.

I often combine this looking with questions: Is there a controller? Is there a meditator? Where would he be? There definitely is no controller of thoughts. They are too... haphazard. But what about knowing? It can only know thoughts but it cannot do thoughts. It cannot do actions either (can just know them). So how come the action happens then? This I do not know. In some cases it looks like: There is a feeling (urge) or a thought that originates the action.

Yorck

[Vivien]

Hi Yorck,

Speech appears to be faster than thinking. It seems to occur almost without thinking most of the time

I find this very interesting. For me thinking is much-much faster than speaking. Thoughts can come and go with lightning speed, while speaking requires to slow down a bit, to be able to pronounce those thoughts.

Just notice that speaking is nothing else but saying out loud the thoughts that are currently present. Can you see that?
Can you see that speaking is just vocalized thoughts and not something else?

I cannot observe when I am absorbed in reading or writing. I just read or write then. I have to pause to observe.

Then do that; then pause. This ability to observe is the ticket out of illusions :)

I often asked throughout this week if there is a controller. Intellectually this seems absurd. But I know we are not dealing with intelectual stuff here. The fear was real. There was/is fear of Yorck failing in business/ in life. I can see: this is a projection towards the future. But it means that the story is still projected. Despite all looking.

Oh, do you expect that the story about Yorck will or should stop? That there were no more fearful stories projected into the future?

Well, here is the bad news, it won’t. At least not at the beginning (meaning not in the first few years).
It’s not about thoughts stopping. It’s not about certain thoughts not coming up any more.
The amount or the kind of thoughts are totally irrelevant.

What matters if they are observed, and seen to just thoughts floating by, without an actual, real Yorck behind them. That’s the key.

How to just take a backseat in this movieshow? Let the fear be. Let thoughts be. Let the actions be. Just keep practicing looking as much as possible?

It’s not just simply letting them be. Since letting them be are done by ME. You see? I believe these thoughts to be true and real, I don’t like them, I try to get rid of them, and in hoping so, I just try to let them be, with the hidden or not so hidden agenda that someday the will stop bothering ME. You see?

The freedom comes with observing.

Whenever a thought is observed, it’s automatically seen that it’s not real… that it’s nothing… it’s not serious. Just meaningless mental activity.

Still there is the belief in I. Where is this Yorck that could fail?

Here is the secret! :) The very thought ‘Yorck could fail’ gives the impression that there is a Yorck who could fail. That’s all. There is just a thought ABOUT Yorck. But no real Yorck. So you have to catch the thought itself…. see it, observe it. When thoughts ABOUT Yorck are observed, it’s automatically seen that these thoughts are all there is to Yorck. Nothing else.

I believe this is still a block. Liberation means "free of suffering" to me. What if it is not?

Yes, liberation is being free of suffering, BUT, there is a big but here.

What we do here is just the beginning not the end. There won’t be an immediate freedom from suffering. That comes with time and constant observation.

Also, freedom from suffering sooner or later happens, but not in a way you might expect.
You won’t be free from suffering, ever.
Yorck will never stop suffering.
Since there is NO Yorck ALREADY who suffers!
There is just a thought ABOUT a Yorck who supposedly suffers…. Just a thought! That’s all.

So freedom from suffering gradually comes when it gets more and more clear that the one who could suffer (Yorck) has never ever been there!
There is no sufferer.
There is no one that will be free. There will be just freedom. But no person / I / me / entity being free.

Really contemplate on these bold sentences.

The unpleasant feelings are. Fear is. Headache is. Fatigue is. So what about dropping this expectation then? What about just moving together with the painful feelings but not believing the thoughts (just seeing them as thoughts)?

The fear or any emotion is the result or byproduct of believing the thoughts ABOUT ME.

When these thoughts are observed and not believed, there will be no fear. There will be no unpleasant emotion.
but in any given moment even just one stressful thought is believed and taken to be real, automatically, it will be followed by the associated emotion.

Vivien

[Dhamma]

Dear Vivien,

Thank you for your reply. I have kept observing (whenever I remembered).

Just notice that speaking is nothing else but saying out loud the thoughts that are currently present. Can you see that?
Can you see that speaking is just vocalized thoughts and not something else?

I can see: thoughts verbalize even when they are only thought and not spoken. When speaking, I still have difficulty observing. When speaking, this speaking is just happening as if it is going on completely by itself (which probably is the case, anyway). There is nothing to do. True, sometimes "I get stuck" when speaking and a name or something else does not occur, immediately. Or thoughts appear incoherent. Then speaking stops until the looked for thought appears (it can also be suggested by somebody else of course).

Observing still comes with a very conscious effort. When observing is on, I can see that thoughts were just going on, that they were saying all kinds of things. Sometimes I can also see them when they keep going. It is as if during observation the head is above the surface of the water. Most of the time it still is "under the water", though. I could also say "within the movie" without being conscious of this. I do fill encouraged to keep looking, observing.

So can I see that speaking is just vocalized thought? Yes, I can. Just like writing this. But as I said: While I am speaking I might not be able to observe this.

This ability to observe is the ticket out of illusions :)

Indeed. And this ability to look or observe appears to be always available. Whenever it is remembered. Then observation can happen.

Oh, do you expect that the story about Yorck will or should stop? That there were no more fearful stories projected into the future?

That would be so nice... I somehow did expect this. One phantastic experience of enlightenment and then all is fine. What I see is: Indeed the thought stories continue. However, during observation they somehow stop or dry up. Not completely, but it is as if the stream of thought is somehow weakened when there is observation (afterwards they pick up again).

What matters if they are observed, and seen to just thoughts floating by, without an actual, real Yorck behind them. That’s the key.

Yes, when observing I can see: Oh, these thoughts were just happening, completely by themselves. And : oh now they are picking up by themselves . Then it occurs: Oh, this Yorck is just an invention, just an idea carried here by these thoughts. But this is not a permanent conviction. I have to keep looking again and again.

It’s not just simply letting them be. Since letting them be are done by ME. You see? I believe these thoughts to be true and real, I don’t like them, I try to get rid of them, and in hoping so, I just try to let them be, with the hidden or not so hidden agenda that someday the will stop bothering ME. You see?

The freedom comes with observing.

Whenever a thought is observed, it’s automatically seen that it’s not real… that it’s nothing… it’s not serious. Just meaningless mental activity.

It is as if thought content is temporarily disabled when observing. It is seen: "Oh, another thought", and then, as observation continues, the thought floats off.

Here is the secret! :) The very thought ‘Yorck could fail’ gives the impression that there is a Yorck who could fail. That’s all. There is just a thought ABOUT Yorck. But no real Yorck. So you have to catch the thought itself…. see it, observe it. When thoughts ABOUT Yorck are observed, it’s automatically seen that these thoughts are all there is to Yorck. Nothing else.

The thing is that during observation the thoughts themselves seem to disappear when observation looks at them. Sounds continue, breathing continues, feelings continue, seeing continues but thought content appears to evapurate. And it can be seen for some glimpses: Yorck exists in thoughts only.

Yes, liberation is being free of suffering, BUT, there is a big but here.

What we do here is just the beginning not the end. There won’t be an immediate freedom from suffering. That comes with time and constant observation.

Also, freedom from suffering sooner or later happens, but not in a way you might expect.
You won’t be free from suffering, ever.
Yorck will never stop suffering.
Since there is NO Yorck ALREADY who suffers!
There is just a thought ABOUT a Yorck who supposedly suffers…. Just a thought! That’s all.

So freedom from suffering gradually comes when it gets more and more clear that the one who could suffer (Yorck) has never ever been there!
There is no sufferer.
There is no one that will be free. There will be just freedom. But no person / I / me / entity being free.

Really contemplate on these bold sentences.

I have. And I keep looking whenever I can.

The fear or any emotion is the result or byproduct of believing the thoughts ABOUT ME.

When these thoughts are observed and not believed, there will be no fear. There will be no unpleasant emotion.
but in any given moment even just one stressful thought is believed and taken to be real, automatically, it will be followed by the associated emotion.

Yes, this is very helpful to see. I can see the mechanism at work very well, now. The thought brings the emotion. Once I read in a book by Ajahn Brahm that unenlightened people are like worms who are happy in their heap of dung. And they do not want to get out of their shit, of course, because it is so familar and therefore pleasant (or so it is believed). My impression is: thought content unobserved is like this heap of dung. And then the worm is there. It believes it is there and it believes it is no heap of dung surrounding it. When there is observation, it's the way out. But to be in this dung is sooo alluring (but always ends with pain). I' ll keep observing.

All the best

Y

[Vivien]

Hi Yorck,

Thank you for your update. I don’t feel like I can add anything new. Just keep looking. You are doing well, just keep going.

Love,
Vivien

[Dhamma]

Dear Vivien,

I hope you are fine.

I have just been through my own ten-day meditation retreat at home. Four days serenety meditation followed by a focus on thinking with the question "Is there is anything that is not happening by itself" (occassionally interspersed with "Is Yorck running the show?" and "What are you without seeking?"). Towards the last day day the main question transformed into "What's on"? (meaning: What is going on in the thought show?).

Here are some of the things that happened.

After the end of sereneity meditation I switched to the thought focus almost with a heavy heart because from previous meditation experience I knew that concentration would have to be rebuilt for a while. However in the first hour of thought focus an unusual experience happened. It was extremely fleeting and later I asked myself if it had really happened or if I imagine it only. Well I think it was not just imagined. There was the very fleeting moment of "and if there is really nobody?". Very fleeting as I said. Afterwards there was a feeling of relief but not very profound. However there was more clarity.

So, what do I see differently now?

Do I still believe that there is a Yorck person? I would say to 99 percent no. I can see clearly: Ah, this is a thought coming up. It happens all by itself. Nobody has made it. And it starts proliferating giving rise to other thoughts, to intentions, to actions and so on.

I can see: All things in this world happening are the fruit of conditioning. They "co-arise" as Buddhists say. A specific thought might come up due to something that just happend. E.g., I hear my wife coughing so I think of her. Nobody made this and there is no I thinking this. The thought just occurs. Or, there is a feeling of hunger (due to not eating before) and a thought goes says "mmh breakfast". Thoughts are subtle and hard to catch, especially when they arise.

I can see: When the eye of observation just observes the present moment is lived. Thought, on the other hand, catapults one into the future or the past. It weaves the world and casts a veil over it at the same time. It embarks experience on a rollercoaster ride pretending "Yorck is experiencing this". But there is no experiencer. There is just experience and it can be observed. So one answer to the question "What are you without seeking" is: Nothing, just observation.

I can see that observing is purifying. There are so many crap thoughts, namely of desire and hatred. But when the eye of observation looks at them -without any intention, just looks at them - they cease. As if there is no point for them any more.

And what is observation? I don't know. To me it has a devine quality. It does nothing, just observes, and changes everything. It is the source of awakening. By observation thought becomes aware of its confused ways. Observation allows to see through thought's ways.

So I am strongly I convinced that there is no Yorck person. Almost completely. Do I have any doubt that there really is nobody, that everything is just happening and that all there is, are just various processes coming together, creating an illusion? No I do not doubt it. I am convinced that this is so. But in everyday life I might still "react as a person" which is to say sometimes become defensive or act in some other way that does not reflect this understanding. I also have some doubt with respect to my insight because of the fleetingness of my experience and the not very deep relief that it brought (I read it should be a deep feeling of relief).

Nevertheless, I can say that there is a new quality to the way I look at the world compared to prior to this meditation period. The way I see it now: There is this world where things unfold in myriad intricate ways (too many to know them all) and as long as we don't look through this veil we believe "we" are here. Then we see: No, there are only these processes happening and they just rise up and cease. So why this wakening up? Because of the eye of observation. Observation brings realization, brings insight, brings purification.

So, have I crossed the river to the other bank or I am still on some sandbank in the middle? This is where I am not so sure.

In any case there is more work to do. Purification namely.

Much love, dear Vivivien, thank you again and all the best

Y

[Vivien]

Hello Yorck,

So you had a glimpse. That's good, but what is it that you SEE now when you look?
Can you see in experience now?
And now?
And what about this moment?

It's not simply about what you believe, but what you SEE moment by moment.
If I don't see it right now, then it's just a new belief.

Can you SEE it EXPERIENTIALLY repeatedly and reliably every time when you look?
Or you are just relying on the memory of that fleeting moment of seeing?

I wrote about this in my blog. Please read it:
https://fadingveiling.com/2020/10/04/no ... -here-now/

Love,
Vivien

[Dhamma]

Thank you Vivien,

So you had a glimpse. That's good, but what is it that you SEE now when you look?
Can you see in experience now?
And now?
And what about this moment?

I find it is still hard to catch the upcoming thought in every moment. The habit to look at any given moment has definitely grown stronger. But I certainly do not do it at any given moment. To answer the question what I SEE now when I look... Actually when I really look then things (thoughts) calm down completely and there is nothing. Then after a moment (or rather some moments) a thought will crop up. And there could be the experience to get carried away with it without realizing or not. Other sense experiences, on the other hand, keep going. Sensations, hearing and so on. So when I really look at thoughts they seem to evaporate for a while and the come back.

It's not simply about what you believe, but what you SEE moment by moment.
If I don't see it right now, then it's just a new belief.

Thank you for the reminder. I find it very valualble. This is the way: Keep looking, every moment (still not so easy I find...).

Can you SEE it EXPERIENTIALLY repeatedly and reliably every time when you look?
Or you are just relying on the memory of that fleeting moment of seeing?

"It" would be the story, the invented character, wouldn't it? As I said when I look thoughts first stop and then I can see that they start up again, just by themselves, nobody doing it. And, yes, I think that there was this danger to rely on that fleeting moment of seeing. So thanks again for the reminder. And so yes, looking is the only way to see that the story keeps telling itself.

I wrote about this in my blog. Please read it:

Yes, thanks. I find it very clear.

Y

[Vivien]

All right. Just keep looking.

Remember, it's not just simply about thoughts, whether they stop or not, but rather if there is a me, a person, an I, an entity BEHIND those thoughts thinking them. If there is a doer, a chooser, a decider, a mover of the body. A person having a life.

So just look at these pointers.

Have a nice day,
Vivien

[Dhamma]

Dear Vivien, I hope you are fine.

So then - it's all one. And always changing. And disappearing and rising. It's simple and awsome.

My sofa is me. And is nothing.

Wow.

Y