What is truth ?

[JonathanR]

Hi Maggie

Forgive my brevity but I am traveling today and for a few days. I will post again as soon as possible.

All best

Jon

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon,

Thoughts may appear with various explanations or interpretations of what is happening but we must examine what the actual experience is like. Is seeing just happening?

seeing just happening ,yes

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon,

enjoy your trip 😍😍

[JonathanR]

Hi Maggie

Great! There is WiFi at the moment.where I am staying.

. what is it that "does" the noticing of these ideas?
The "unchanged", the background , the "that" that never go and never come, is always there, no start no ending...

Ok. So, is it clear that it is not a separate 'self' that does this noticing?

. Is seeing just happening?

seeing just happening ,yes

I noticed you changed how you answered from "lost" to "seeing just happening". 😊.

So is it clear that in the experience (we label) "seeing" ,seeing is not an experience of "eyes seeing" or of "body seeing" or of "Maggie seeing" ,but just the direct experience?

You may notice thoughts came too? Not only the direct experience of seeing, but also mental narrative?

There is another experiment to try. This time Hearing.

When you will not be interrupted take some time to notice whatever sounds appear. These may range from quiet noises such as breathing, to louder noises such as a car outside or birds singing, to loud noises such as machinery or shouting voices.

It doesn't matter what sounds are heard. Simply allow them and notice what can be heard.

Now,again, as with the earlier experiment , is there an experience of "ears hearing" or ,"a self, hearing"?

Does hearing simply happen? What about thoughts?. Do thoughts also appear?

If so, do thoughts have anything to do with making hearing happen ? Or are they like a story that is somehow added on to direct experience of hearing?

(I hope to communicate tomorrow but this will depend on availability of WiFi. Thanks for your patience.

Best wishes

Jon

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon,
Appreciate very much as you reply during your vacation

So is it clear that in the experience (we label) "seeing" ,seeing is not an experience of "eyes seeing" or of "body seeing" or of "Maggie seeing" ,but just the direct experience?

yes

You may notice thoughts came too? Not only the direct experience of seeing, but also mental narrative?

yes

There is another experiment to try. This time Hearing.

ok

When you will not be interrupted take some time to notice whatever sounds appear. These may range from quiet noises such as breathing, to louder noises such as a car outside or birds singing, to loud noises such as machinery or shouting voices.

It doesn't matter what sounds are heard. Simply allow them and notice what can be heard.

Now,again, as with the earlier experiment , is there an experience of "ears hearing" or ,"a self, hearing"?

self hearing, just happen

Does hearing simply happen? What about thoughts?. Do thoughts also appear?

hearing , thoughts just simply happen and appear

If so, do thoughts have anything to do with making hearing happen ?

no
Or are they like a story that is somehow added on to direct experience of hearing?[/quote]
no ..all just simply happen

(I hope to communicate tomorrow but this will depend on availability of WiFi. Thanks for your patience.

Thank you Jon

[JonathanR]

Hello Maggie

I have to be brief tonight due to poor Internet connection.

Please forgive any repetition. I need to understand the exact meaning of what you say so that I can guide clearly.

Does a separate "self" hear or see?


I agree that thoughts do not make hearing (or seeing) happen.

Thoughts are often about this or that. Thoughts may or may not "talk" about hearing or seeing. But whatever thoughts "say" is it clear that they are not doing the hearing at all and are like an extra thing in addition to hearing?

This question can also apply to seeing,hearing, touch, taste and smell.

Best wishes

Jon

[MaggieNew]

dear Jon,

I have to be brief tonight due to poor Internet connection.

thank you very much as you spare sometime for me during your vacation

Please forgive any repetition. I need to understand the exact meaning of what you say so that I can guide clearly.

It is your afford. appreciate very much

Does a separate "self" hear or see?

Yes, yes ...

I agree that thoughts do not make hearing (or seeing) happen.
Thoughts are often about this or that. Thoughts may or may not "talk" about hearing or seeing.
But whatever thoughts "say" is it clear that they are not doing the hearing at all and are like an extra thing in addition to hearing?

ya..making story

This question can also apply to seeing,hearing, touch, taste and smell.

Five Senses ，yes , making additional story



Best wishes

[MaggieNew]

dear Jon,
please note that from my understanding of the Q

Does a separate "self" hear or see?

is that means （Does a separate "self" BEING heard or see?

If my understanding correct , the the unswe is "YES"

[JonathanR]

Hi Maggie

. please note that from my understanding of the Q
Does a separate "self" hear or see?
is that means （Does a separate "self" BEING heard or see?

If my understanding correct , the the unswe is "YES

This is why I asked the question. We need to be clear about what is meant.

When I ask about a separate "self" I am meaning an imagined entity that is somehow supposed to exist independently of the rest of life and often imagined to be located "inside a body" or as a "thinking, controling mind".

I mean Identification with the idea of separate existence in or as a body or mind, separate from everything that is imagined to be "not me".

(Confusingly There can be another understanding for the word Self which is different from this, which is not dualistic at all, but I was asking about the 'separate entity' type of 'self' described above.

Does this make sense Maggie?

Jon

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon ,

Thank you for spare time with me

This is why I asked the question. We need to be clear about what is meant.

ok

When I ask about a separate "self" I am meaning an imagined entity that is somehow supposed to exist independently of the rest of life and often imagined to be located "inside a body" or as a "thinking, controling mind".

I mean Identification with the idea of separate existence in or as a body or mind, separate from everything that is imagined to be "not me".

#shall we call this "not me ,the separate self " as ✨ MAGGIE here,
#and the truth self-the non dualistic, we call it as "✨that " ,

so easy to communicate next time , is it ok ? 😊

I know you are trying to make me understand this different "self " 😊

(Confusingly There can be another understanding for the word Self which is different from this, which is not dualistic at all, but I was asking about the 'separate entity' type of 'self' described above.

Does this make sense Maggie?

Yes Jon. And I got what you mean.

regards, Maggie

[JonathanR]

Hi Maggie

. #shall we call this "not me ,the separate self " as ✨ MAGGIE here,
#and the truth self-the non dualistic, we call it as "✨that " ,

so easy to communicate next time , is it ok ? 😊

Yes that will work.

Ok. So, in seeing or hearing, does a MAGGIE do that ?

Regards

Jon

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon ,
hows your holiday ?

Ok. So, in seeing or hearing, does a MAGGIE do that ?

No.....


regards,

Maggie

[MaggieNew]

Dear Jon,

Ok. So, in seeing or hearing, does a MAGGIE do that ?

NO..It happens spontaneously..

regards,

Maggie

[JonathanR]

Hi,

It was a great holiday thank you.

So, seeing, hearing, taste, touch , smell,;. All these are just happening spontaneously. It is possible to check that this is true.

Earlier you said these this:

.
Is there an expectation that appearance or story of "Maggie" must cease?
yes

But what if thoughts are like sensations, spontaneously appearing? Does hearing cease? Does seeing cease?

How would the story or narrative about Maggie be prevented ?

What would need the story to cease?

And

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?
ya.. if we able to break thru to see all the "fake"

Who, or what would do the 'breaking through" ?

What prevents noticing all the "fake"?

Is possible to notice a thought appearing and then another, and another? Sit quietly for a while and notice this. Then find out if it is possible to notice a gap between the end of one thought and the start of the next one.?

Is there a gap or space between thoughts?

Best wishes

Jon

[MaggieNew]

dear Jon,
this is wonderful pointing！！ I would to quiet down ...come back a short while

regards，
Maggie