Cessation of becoming

[jmc]

How does it FEEL to notice only Direct Experience?

I’m not 100% sure. When I ask myself that question, the mind wants to convey a story. I will pay more attention to how I feel but when I check now, the best I can say is that something feels different but I can’t put my finger on what it is.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

red

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

The color red is experienced

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Right now the label green respresent red. Who knows what it will represent next experience. 😊

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Just a label

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Labels have no affect

Let me know what is SEEN.

Letters on my ipad screen, to which the mind has been trained to assign meaning.

John

[Anastacia42]

All very good. How about this:

Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Let me know what is found.

Labeling the day, the Sensations, etc. does nothing to reduce their beauty or joy, but can hide them from our awareness.

Loving,

[jmc]

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

I’ve combined my answer to these two questions because my response to the first question is that a thought is a thought, and so the only difference is in the content of those thoughts. I wanted to be sure that’s true (it’s counter-intuitive and would appear to have huge implications) so I took a little time to focus on thought experience. What I came to see are two things, two sides of the same coin. On one side, the existence of the ‘self’ seems dependent on paying attention to and believing thought content. On the other side, thought content has no owner because it is neither produced nor held by anyone/anything. Without thought content the fallacy of a self is evident.

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

No, the same.

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Wow, no! Those thoughts just have different content but no specialness if content isn’t the focus.

Let me know what is found.

I think I did. 😊

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Very good, John.

Without thought content the fallacy of a self is evident.

Yes!

Here's a fun one:

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where "John" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'John' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Relax & have fun!

Loving,

~ Stacy

[jmc]

Hi Stacy,

I will respond to this first thing in the morning. Needs more quiet time than I have available this evening. Hope that’s ok.

John

[Anastacia42]

Sure. Thanks for telling me.

Good night,

[jmc]

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

It is easy for me to see that the stream does not choose its directions. There is not a decision making entity called ‘stream’. The stream is also not a single, static thing. For example, it’s form/shape changes continuously and there is no start/end to it, just constant transformation whether in shape or what it becomes (ex. eventually being absorbed by plants). Yes it is a product of its environment, but that too is not a ‘thing’, and so it’s just one gigantic ‘happening’.

1. Can you find anywhere where "John" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

Of course the mind wants to believe the answer is a resolute “yes”. There is a tremendous amount of conditioning of the mind to believe that’s absolutely true. But when it is examined here and now, the brain is making decisions but the source/cause of any particular brain behavior is not known. Perhaps cannot be known as it happens spontaneously like the stream going over a rock.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

I can’t find it. It’s all spontaneous brain behavior. But nobody/nothing is behind it. To see that clearly is a bit startling!

3. Can anything be found for which 'John' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Interestingly, that is exactly the nature of the question that arises for this mind when contemplating the previous questions. The primary orientation of my life has been to be good, worthy, and lovable. I believed I could make those things happen and was responsible to do so. Given the energy spent over the years on that orientation, it will no doubt take time for me to see through it on a consistent basis. But this morning, at least for a little while, I do.

Thank you Stacy.

[Anastacia42]

That's great, John.

Here's another way to practice that:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

~ Stacy

[jmc]

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

The qualities were not chosen. They were thought of as distinguishing characteristics of each drink. Very interesting. I see that I didn’t chose the preferences though I certainly had them and would have normally believed they were my choice.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

I had to reflect on this for a little bit. My initial reaction was, yes, I was given instructions that I chose to follow. But I don’t think that’s the question. I believe the question is whether I chose to make the preferences go away while I was counting. The answer to that is no, I did not.

Now I’m reflecting more on what appeared to be a choice to follow the instructions of this exercise. It certainly felt like a choice but if I go back to previous exercise and apply the same understanding, then I see that there was nobody making that choice. Only a brain acting on info it had been given but no owner of that choice.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

No DE. I see only the outcome of an apparent choice, not the mental function in action.

In this moment I see the mind working hard to hold on to the idea that it is that faculty for doing the choosing. But at the same time, if the surface answer of the mind is not accepted at face value, it is seen that there NEVER has been DE of a ‘thing’ making choices.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

No. Same as above. There is no DE experience of a mental function that is the chooser.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

I certainly would have said something like “it feels like I made a choice”. But what has become understood here/now is that a feeling is just a story. An examination below that story is all it takes to see it’s fiction.

As a side note, there’s a somewhat expected crumbling of the ‘self’ that seems to be going on here. The full implications are not known.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, upon examination any illusion of a self must crumble.

Can you find any "self" anywhere? No?

How does it FEEL to SEE this?

Loving,

[jmc]

Can you find any "self" anywhere? No?

When I purposefully look for evidence of a self, I can’t find any. That’s quite remarkable.

However, when I am not intentionally looking, it seems that thoughts and feelings are at the surface and still give the illusion of a self, which is most of the time.

How does it FEEL to SEE this?

I’ve been checking in periodically today for how it FEELS to see ‘no self’. Here’s what I found.
- a sensation in the chest, almost like a flow of energy, that has in the past been present with apprehension
- a lightheaded type sensation, also with an energetic quality, and at times my head wants to fall back
- an subtle energetic flow of sorts down my arms

[Anastacia42]

Okay...

***seems*** that thoughts and feelings are at the surface and still give the illusion of a self, which is most of the time

.

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

- a sensation in the chest, almost like a flow of energy, that has in the past been present with apprehension
- a lightheaded type sensation, also with an energetic quality, and at times my head wants to fall back
- an subtle energetic flow of sorts down my arms

That first Sensation - is it in the same family of feelings as the lies we discussed earlier?

Loving,

~ Stacy

[jmc]

Does the sense of self have a location?

I was inclined to place it in the body, perhaps in the head. But when I ask, where is the actual sensation of the sense of self in the body, I can’t find one. Only passing experiences.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No, it can’t be found.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No. There is definitely constant mind chatter. And that has always been thought of as the ‘self’ talking. However a ‘sense’ of something is just another thought. Just like the idea of keys in a pocket is only a thought.

I can’t ‘feel’ a source of the mind chatter.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

Only as a thought.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Thought certainly. I don’t believe a sense of self is felt as anything else.

What is found?

The sense of self seems to rise up most prominently when there is resistance and comes in the form of things like dislikes, anger, fear, etc. They are felt in the body as tension and contraction, typically in the chest. It arises as an emotion first and then thought takes over to add a story.

Looking closely, no feeling/sensation can be attributed directly to the sense of self.

Although my answers are somewhat brief, I did spend a fair amount of time exploring these questions through feeling. That said, I’m just not sure if this fully penetrated the illusion.

That first Sensation - is it in the same family of feelings as the lies we discussed earlier?

I’m not sure. Maybe. They are both based on fear at some level, but the lie feeling seemed more like contraction where as this one seemed more like a more generalized energetic feeling. But I’m not sure, maybe they are the same.

[Anastacia42]

Good evening

Okay...

The sense of self seems to... felt in the body as tension and contraction, typically in the chest.

And why is that, do you suppose? :)

I’m just not sure if this fully penetrated the illusion.

Then it didn't. You're still believing the lie of thoughts.

Stay out of thinking. Focus strictly on FEELING & SEEING. Things will actually look different when you LOOK & ignore thought.

Loving,

[jmc]

And why is that, do you suppose? :)

It’s a lie!

Code: Select all

Then it didn't. You're still believing the lie of thoughts. Stay out of thinking. Focus strictly on FEELING & SEEING. Things will actually look different when you LOOK & ignore thought.

Yes, it does appear as if I’m still believing the lie.

I know that “FEELING” references sensations of the body. But can you confirm what you mean when you use the word “SEEING” above?

This morning as I focus on FEELING and staying out of thinking (as much as possible), the feeling of contraction in my chest is stronger and what I referred to as the energetic sensation in my shoulders, arms, and head are strong. There is no doubt some fear here.