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[Arthur]

Is there anything else in 'feeling emotion' other than the emotion that is felt?

Can what is feeling the emotion be found?

Can a ‘feeler’ be found in the emotion?

Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just the emotion'?

Is the emotion itself anything more than a label for certain sensations and thoughts?

Wow, way to rain on my parade! Just kidding. Yes, there was a bit of separation there, before I analyzed it. But you’re absolutely correct. “Emotions” are nothing other than arisings, or sensations prior to being labeled by the mind. My personal narrative typically labels something as an emotion, then goes on to tell me how I shouldn’t feel that way “if I was doing this right.” Oddly enough, it’s normally the “shoulds” and “shouldn’ts” that snap me back out of the narrative and into present awareness. Although, it’s really all present awareness anyway. It’s really quite inescapable, anything that is happening is always happening right now, whether your narrative believes it or not.

[Harry]

Great work! ;)

Let’s do some more, just for fun.

According to your direct experience, not theory or speculation…


In distraction, is there someone who is distracted, in addition to the distraction?

In SEEING, is there a SEER in addition to the SEEING?

In analysing, is there an analyser in addition to the analysis?

In LOOKING, is there a LOOKER in addition to the LOOKING?

[Harry]

Is there someone or something that travels between narratives and present awareness?

Are narratives owned by something or someone?

If yes, who or what, according to experience?

[Arthur]

Is there someone or something that travels between narratives and present awareness?

Are narratives owned by something or someone?

If yes, who or what, according to experience?


In distraction, is there someone who is distracted, in addition to the distraction?

In SEEING, is there a SEER in addition to the SEEING?

In analysing, is there an analyser in addition to the analysis?

In LOOKING, is there a LOOKER in addition to the LOOKING?

The quick answer is “no, everything is just happening in direct experience, there is no real separation.” However, I really want to spend some time with this, because I fear mind has hijacked any insights “I” may have had. I can’t tell if I’m just having trouble using language to express to you what is being experienced, or if there really is still a subtler separation present that is being persistent. There definitely is a sense of flow to life, from experience to experience, with really everything being part of experience. There is a lack of identification with any mental narratives, and yes, they are just experienced as another arising. There is definitely a sense of frustration, and “just forget about all of it, because it doesn’t really matter anyway” that is arising, which is experienced as sensations and metal formations. I’m just trying to relax, observe, and not try or think too hard about all of this, which is causing some dissonance because I’m quite aware that I don’t have any control over any of it anyway. The lack of any real, tangible meaning to concepts and mental formations is also contributing to a sense of pointlessness and meaninglessness as well. Not sure where to go from here, this got longer and more depressing than was intended when I started it.
Hoping for more insights!?
J

[Harry]

Hi J,

Thank you for answering with honesty and integrity, that’s much appreciated. Also, I’m grateful of your effort to describe your experience clearly and openly.

I fear mind has hijacked any insights “I” may have had. I can’t tell if I’m just having trouble using language to express to you what is being experienced, or if there really is still a subtler separation present that is being persistent.

I appreciate that the dualistic structure of language can make our job of communicating non-dual experience feel impossible. Did the sense of doubt come from my questions? Or are you having doubts about your own experience as well or instead? What is the ‘doubter’ like?

There definitely is a sense of flow to life, from experience to experience, with really everything being part of experience. There is a lack of identification with any mental narratives, and yes, they are just experienced as another arising.

Great. How does this feel?

There is definitely a sense of frustration, and “just forget about all of it, because it doesn’t really matter anyway” that is arising, which is experienced as sensations and metal formations. I’m just trying to relax, observe, and not try or think too hard about all of this, which is causing some dissonance because I’m quite aware that I don’t have any control over any of it anyway. The lack of any real, tangible meaning to concepts and mental formations is also contributing to a sense of pointlessness and meaninglessness as well. Not sure where to go from here, this got longer and more depressing than was intended when I started it.

Thanks for telling me this, I am sorry to hear about the sense of meaninglessness and depressiveness. Was that since my questions too? Just to check, was frustration experienced as thought and sensation, or was it labelled by thought as thought and sensation?

This may just be a language thing… but if not, perhaps it would be helpful to watch for stories about a self who is detached, and who has no control, who can forget everything, who things don’t matter to, who passively witnesses. A ‘one’ without control. Is such a self existent in your experience?

How is the sense of pointlessness and meaninglessness known?


Sorry again to hear about these feelings. Let me know if you’d like to take a break from this inquiry if it’s continuing to cause negative feelings or if you’ld like to put the inquiry aside. Up to you. I’ll do my best, should you wish to stay, to try and find the heart of this with you. Nothing of importance will be encouraged to be discarded here. My efforts are only to point towards what is, in the hope of finding freedom and wellbeing there.

[Arthur]

Did the sense of doubt come from my questions? Or are you having doubts about your own experience as well or instead? What is the ‘doubter’ like?

Probably both. But it was interesting to observe the “doubter”. It really is just another thought, or mental concept.

Was that since my questions too? Just to check, was frustration experienced as thought and sensation, or was it labelled by thought as thought and sensation?

Definitely still just thoughts, being labeled as thoughts. The feelings arise separately from the thoughts, normally after the thoughts.

Is such a self existent in your experience?

How is the sense of pointlessness and meaninglessness known?

No, there really isn’t anything other than thoughts, about thoughts, about thoughts. It is interesting how certain triggers can pull one back into believing the thoughts. Then, as soon as there is belief in that thought, a belief, or at least a questioning of the “I” thought comes back as well. All the thoughts about “am I getting it”, or “I’ll never get it,” are just as empty as “I’m getting it!” because once again, just thoughts referring to thoughts, about an “I” thought.
Thanks so much for continuing to work with my thoughts, it is very helpful, and your pointing is just what is needed to actually “see” what is “happening”. As in just life, once the thoughts are seen through.
J

[Harry]

Hi J,

You’re welcome and I’m really glad things are feeling clearer.

Great work SEEING thoughts as they are.

Do you have any other questions, doubts, or uncertainties to do with this self exploration?

Thanks,

Harry

[Arthur]

Do you have any other questions, doubts, or uncertainties to do with this self exploration?

I hope you’re not trying to get rid of me! Just kidding. No, actually I feel pretty good about things. Everything just is, without any control over it. Things just flow, with a dreamlike quality, until it is necessary to focus on a task. Even then, though, there isn’t any me doing said task, it just just gets done. The emptiness of concepts like, “I’ll never get this” was the last thing really to go. “Who is there to “get” any of it?” No one!

[Harry]

Sounds great, J.

And no, not trying to get rid of you ;). Just want to make sure you’re feeling confident SEEING. Feel free to bring up anything you want to clarify.

Would you like to continue with final questions?

[Arthur]

Would you like to continue with final questions?

Yes, I believe so!

[Harry]

1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way,
   shape or form?
   Was there ever?
2. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
   works from your own experience.
   Describe it fully as you see it now.
3. How does it feel to see this?
   What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
   Please report from the past few days.
4. What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
   What makes things happen?
   How does it work?
   What are you responsible for?
   Give examples from experience.
6. Anything to add?

[Harry]

Hi J,

Here they are. Feel free to take your time with these. Let me know if there’s anything you’re not sure about.

Thanks,

Harry

[Arthur]

quote]Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way,
shape or form?
Was there ever?[/quote]

No, there is not. Nor was there ever a separate self.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self begins in childhood, with the development of language. What initially starts as a convenient was of describing experience, essentially develops a life of its own. I see it as internal language structure, that forms a veil over actual experience. The thoughts “I did this, I want that,” are nothing more than thoughts, without a true reference in reality.

How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

It is very freeing. There honestly is a bit of cognitive dissonance experienced, because of the internal dialog referring to self as I, but realizing that there isn’t an I actually doing anything. I assume this will pass with time.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Honestly not sure. The part they definitely freed me from allowing mind to hijack things was the question to “Find the doubter.” Once this was seen through as another concept or thought, things really fell into place.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen?
How does it work?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from experience.

This is a very interesting one! Having a medical background, I alway “knew” how hormones, reflexes, reactions, and hard wired responses work in the brain, but it was literally mind blowing to really “see” it. Things just happen, without really any conscious control at all! Thoughts happen, responses happen, movement happens, decisions happen, without any conscious control, me nor I nor anyone else gets a say in any of it!
And “I” have really looked, because “I” couldn’t believe it. Honestly there is continued looking at this, because it’s so interesting. The easiest way I have noticed this is getting lost in thoughts while doing something else, like driving, walking, or exercising. Everything continues to work, everything continues to happen, and there is clearly no “you” controlling it. The exercise of trying to find a “chooser” or “decider” or where thoughts come from during daily life is fun as well.

Anything to add?

Not too much at this time. Things are still settling, but there is really a significant decrease in reactivity, without events being interpreted as personally. There have definitely been ups and downs in this inquiry, but I really thank Harry for being patient and understanding with any issues experienced. The questions really were spot on, and helped in “seeing” where handfuls were occurring.

Thanks so much for everything!

[Harry]

Thanks for your answers, J.

Great work throughout this whole inquiry. Thanks for your efforts, persistence and honesty. To me, there definitely seems to be SEEING happening as a result, which is fantastic!

Also, you’re very welcome; it was lovely to guide you!

I’ll pass on your answers to the other guides in case they have any further questions.

Once I hear from them, I’ll let you know what happens next.

All the best,

Harry

[Harry]

Hi J,

The other guides have given their confirmation of your SEEING.

You should be receiving a PM from admin soon with more information.

Again, it’s been great guiding you and feel free to stay in contact if you’d like to, just let me know and I’ll give you my email.

All the best,

Harry