Recently passed through the gate and hoping to be a guide

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

I wanted to sit with this information for a while and let it sink in, so to speak, and do more experiencing of this.

If you look very carefully, you’ll find that there are some parts where the sensations are really strong, but there are other areas where there is hardly any sensation going on, or even nothing. So even the sensations what are labelled as ‘body’ cannot be experienced as a whole. I mean you cannot feel all ‘parts’ of the body at the same time. There is only a constructed visual thought and with the label ‘body’, and the belief that the body is a whole unit, always present, always available. But this cannot be further from the truth. Body as such exists only as a construct.
Can you see this?

Yes I can see this now.

There is ZERO experience of body.
Body as such cannot be experienced.
Body is just a mental construct ( = thought), nothing else.
The body is just a conceptual overlay on the experience of colors and sensations. Can you see this?

Just starting to see this. It can be a bit disorienting when seen.

I realize this is thought and wanting a conceptual answer, but what about the need for food, water, shelter? Thoughts, colors and sensations shouldn't require this if I'm understanding correctly. Is there an organism here at all? Is there a "here" for anything? Or even a "here" at all?

If I go by what I am experiencing with closed eyes, it seems as if there is only alive vastness with sensations and thoughts popping in and out. There's no matter of any kind. But it doesn't explain why there are basic needs for life as a human. Is it all just part of the experience? The experience has rules and limitations?

Thank you as always for your insight.

Erin

[Vivien]

Hi Erin,

I realize this is thought and wanting a conceptual answer, but what about the need for food, water, shelter? Thoughts, colors and sensations shouldn't require this if I'm understanding correctly. Is there an organism here at all? Is there a "here" for anything? Or even a "here" at all?

Notice, that you are mixing conventional reality with seeing. In everyday term, yes, of course, there is a body here needing food and shelter. But what happens if you look at it from a different angle? It’s a shift in perception. If you look at it from two different angles.

If I go by what I am experiencing with closed eyes, it seems as if there is only alive vastness with sensations and thoughts popping in and out. There's no matter of any kind. But it doesn't explain why there are basic needs for life as a human. Is it all just part of the experience? The experience has rules and limitations?

Aren’t these thoughts also just popping up on their own?

Is there someone thinking them?

Notice, on whose behalf these thoughts appear?

Who is bothered by the answer?

Vivien

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

Notice, that you are mixing conventional reality with seeing. In everyday term, yes, of course, there is a body here needing food and shelter. But what happens if you look at it from a different angle? It’s a shift in perception. If you look at it from two different angles.

Yes I definitely see the shift in perception.

Aren’t these thoughts also just popping up on their own?

Is there someone thinking them?

Notice, on whose behalf these thoughts appear?

Who is bothered by the answer?

Yes, I can see these are also thoughts popping in. Since they were popping up here, I thought it best to clarify since others (clients) might have similar thoughts.
I won't even say there was any tension around the answer, but more of thoughts asking for clarification to understand. I know the thoughts are just popping in and not 'wanting" anything, but it was what came up, and 'I' felt it should be asked. Not sure how exactly to word it.

Thank you
Erin

[Vivien]

Hi Erin,

es, I can see these are also thoughts popping in. Since they were popping up here, I thought it best to clarify since others (clients) might have similar thoughts.

When why and how thoughts come up, I hardly every answer them. Rather I point to show that those are just more thoughts on behalf of a person wanting to know. The intellect will always want to know an answer, it wants to understand, and by doing so, it’s putting it into a box “I get it, I know it now”. With that, investigation is over. As soon as I know something, I stop looking, since it has become a belief.

Also, we can never really know the answers for why-s and how-s. We can speculate, we can rationalize, philosophize, but that always will stay on the level of the intellect/thought. There are no reasons in reality. All reason just ‘reasoned’ :) Reality is simple, as it is. So we only ever looking at how things are actually are, but not why and how. Of course, that can be fun to speculate on that, but that is not inquiry.

But if we want to reason, then we can use the analogy of the matrix. In the matrix bodies and their needs seem to be very real. The body eats, protects itself, etc. But in reality, the body only ever exists (alongside with the world) in the mind of the dreamer / in the matrix. Of course, this is not a perfect analogy, since there is nothing outside of the dream / matrix. Although, awakening can happen in the matrix, recognizing that it’s just a matrix, but there is no way out of it. Since matrix/dream is all there is. That which knows or aware of the matrix is not separate from it.

So let’s look at this….

Whatever is happening, it is known. Right? – please check… make sure that this is super clear.

Now, look, is there a separate knower knowing the known (whatever is happening)?

Is there an awareness separate from the ‘awared’?

Vivien

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

Ok thank for the information.

Whatever is happening, it is known. Right? – please check… make sure that this is super clear.

Now, look, is there a separate knower knowing the known (whatever is happening)?

Is there an awareness separate from the ‘awared’?

Yes this is very clear.
There is only one knowing.
No, there is no separation. There is just the awareness aware-ing.

Thank you,
Erin

[Vivien]

Hi Erin,

Thank you for your replies. Please spend a few days looking and checking if there is anything that is not super clear and you would like to look at.

Love,
Vivien

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

I have been looking as much as possible. There are no more questions arising.

Thank you.

With Love
Erin

[Vivien]

Do you feel ready to the final questions?

Love,
Vivien

[Vivien]

Do you feel ready to the final questions?

Love,
Vivien

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

Yes I am ready.

Erin

[Vivien]

Hi Erin,

What we usually do at this stage is to ask some checking questions to see if everything is clear and no stone left unturned.

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Vivien

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien

I’ve been working long days this week, but will be off tomorrow and answer these questions.

Be in touch soon.

Thank you
Erin

[Vivien]

All right, thank you, you don't need to rush :)

[plantborn]

Hi Vivien,

Sorry I took so long to get back. I ended up getting COVID that put me behind.

Please see responses below.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No there is no self, me, I, person or entity Erin. There isn’t a self now and there never was.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self or Erin as a person is a string of thoughts. The thoughts were believed and ultimately created the idea of a fictitious Erin living a separate life. Sensations in the body tied to a thought make the belief much stronger for a separate self. Pain in stomach accompanied with a thought I am worried. Or pressure in the chest, my heart is broken over a lost love. Now things are seen for what they are: thoughts alone or body sensation paired with a thought.

How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The suffering is much less knowing that there is no self creating the thoughts or that the thoughts must be believed in. For instance, recurrent worry about Erin’s future. There is no decisions to be made. What will happen will happen without anyone’s control or influence. Most of suffering emotionally is from sensations in the body. Those can be looked at now for what they are.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

I’m not exactly sure how to answer this…In the beginning, my magic mushroom experience showed me over and over that Erin was a story and that the body is just a body. An organism. That set the fire for seeking trying to figure out what it all meant and what to do from here. With the LU book, about 3/4 through it clicked that what she was saying is that there is no person. There is no Erin. And when looked for, indeed, there was no separate self. That created feelings of dread and sadness that were so intense, I had to put the seeking down for a few weeks. Then after that, I started working with you. In the middle of our talks, I woke up one morning and the idea was very clear… Erin is only thoughts and sensations. This created the idea of a person that never existed. My thoughts were very minimal for about 3 days. There was a relaxed state in the body. The clarity has stuck with “me” since then, but the relaxed body and suffering ups and downs returned. Working with the body and sensations the past few weeks has taken me to a deeper knowing.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

a) There is no decisions to be made. There is no intention to do or not do something. Free will, choice, and the idea of control are all just thoughts. Nothing “makes” things happen. They just happen. It’s a free flow of life. A phenomenon that is unable to be explained and figured out. An example would be everything actually (lol), but for instance, sound and hearing just happen with listening to music. I am not creating the sound and I am not hearing the sound. The sound is just heard or experienced. Also experiencing the sensation of the body. The experience of a foot is a sensation. The sensation is just experienced and there is no Erin registering this is my foot. This is my foot, is a thought. There is no Erin. Legs are just walking on their own, Driving is happening, etc. It’s all happening without any controller conducting it.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

b) I am not responsible for anything! The question of needing to eat, drink, etc came up. As a responsibility to take care of the body. But the idea I’m hungry just pops up and then cooking or eating happens. Sensation of dryness in the mouth with thought, I am thirsty, and drinking happens. The body takes care of itself so to speak.

6) Anything to add?

No other thoughts are arising at the moment.

Thank you so much for your time and knowledge.

Warmly,
Erin

[Vivien]

Hi Erin,

Thank you for your responses. I am going to ask other guides to have a look at the thread to ensure that I have covered everything and that my pointing has been clear. This may take a few days. Other guides might have further questions, and if they do, I will bring them to you.

V