Seeing what is

[Life]

Sorry Machiel. I did, indeed, miss quite a few questions out. Let me rectify that now. Thank you for your patience.

That would be just another identity you cannot find in direct experience, right? Why call it I? Why call it anything? This awareness is it always there?
Yes. Awareness is always present.

Are you really sure about that? What do you consider awareness to be?

1) With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I
mentioned?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?

No

3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
No, it can only be felt /known

How does it feel? How is it known?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Philomena be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'?

No

Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?

Yes

What do you find?

There is the knowing that only what can be seen is there.

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er,
be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No- yet what can be seen can be known to be seen?

Try not to guess! Look for yourself, don't ask me. We say seeing just happens without you, is that true?

Please look with all your might! Leave everything else, every method, every concept, all thinking about this, don't stop thinking just stop paying attention to it! LOOK!! Directly look, looking if you actually are any of that happening, not as a concept to gain anything or stay anywhere else, can you see that you stays intact when trying to be "who you really are" or in your natural state?
This has taken me a few readings to understand that the' trying ' is misplaced - that there is no need to try nor to do anything but experience what is here.

Is experiencing something you are doing or just experiences happening?

You cannot get there. That it isn't about you at all? That you cannot do this? Nothing to do, everything already being done?
Can you see or is seeing just happening?
Seeing is just happening

So seeing is not you, so the eye is not you, is that also true with all the other senses? Investigate!

You missed some questions there. Did I totally miss the mark there about the Self-injury stuff?
What do you mean by 'the self-injury stuff'?

Well I assumed this was something you did regularly because you mentioned advaita vedanta but the asking and meditating on the question 'who am I?' is Ramana Maharshi. Something I did a lot myself… But at the very beginning you said you wanted to stay present as 'Higher Consciousness' while that is an assumption that this is there and is only strengthening the sense of there being a self. There is a sense of self that is useful too but is there really a self behind this sense?

Absolutely great stuff but in the end it's about you knowing who you are and staying there. Actually all the spiritual stuff is about you, for all different kinds of reasons but always for the person. Maybe you want to keep all that and not know the actual truth, which is also fine, but if you want truth we have to go a little deeper than pondering and repeating after me… All the Holy houses need to crumble so to speak.
I absolutely want to know the truth- that's why I am here.

Ok good to hear :) Do you agree though that it needs to be seen not known?

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh.

No- that's not harsh. I'm just wondering which 'you' you are referring to at times.

Maybe you are really seeing there is no one doing seeing, no seer and we are done. So if seeing is just happening do you exist? What comes up?
If seeing is just happening, it is happening within awareness and awareness is aware of it happening.

Is seeing just happening or are you doing something for seeing to occur?

This would be good to look at:
For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: ​ ​ Notice all
sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.​ Notice how you're making absolutely no
effort to be aware of them.​ And ​ notice that you're not making them happen.​ You're ​ not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.​
And ​notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.​ You're ​effortlessly
aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which
say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts. Look there and tell me what you find.

Looking forward to your reply.
Machiel

[InspireMe54]

3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
No, it can only be felt /known
How does it feel? How is it known?

Through the senses

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Philomena be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'?
No
Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?
Yes
What do you find?
There is the knowing that only what can be seen is there.
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er,
be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
No- yet what can be seen can be known to be seen?

Try not to guess! Look for yourself, don't ask me. We say seeing just happens without you, is that true?

It depends on what you mean by 'you'. I feel seeing happens within awareness through the medium of the eyes ie awareness is aware of experiencing seeing through the sense of sight in this human body.

Is experiencing something you are doing or just experiences happening?

Experiencing is happening

So seeing is not you, so the eye is not you, is that also true with all the other senses? Investigate!

Yes- the senses are merely conduits for awareness to experience
.

Maybe you are really seeing there is no one doing seeing, no seer and we are done. So if seeing is just happening do you exist? What comes up?

If seeing is just happening, it is happening within awareness and awareness is aware of it happening.

Is seeing just happening or are you doing something for seeing to occur?

Seeing is just happening

This would be good to look at:
For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: ​ ​ Notice all
sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.​ Notice how you're making absolutely no
effort to be aware of them.​ And ​ notice that you're not making them happen.​ You're ​ not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.​
And ​notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.​ You're ​effortlessly
aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which
say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts. Look there and tell me what you find.

I find a spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace ......

Looking forward to your reply.
Machiel

[Life]

3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
No, it can only be felt /known
How does it feel? How is it known?
Through the senses

But how does it feel?
So how does that work? It is seen through the senses that which witnesses you say? How sure are you about that? So how does it look like, sound like, feel, taste and smell then? Be honest for this process to end with seeing it for yourself! Can what is witnessing Itself be witnessed? LOOK right now when reading this…

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Philomena be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'?
No
Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?
Yes
What do you find?
There is the knowing that only what can be seen is there.
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er,
be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
No- yet what can be seen can be known to be seen?

Try not to guess! Look for yourself, don't ask me. We say seeing just happens without you, is that true?
It depends on what you mean by 'you'. I feel seeing happens within awareness through the medium of the eyes ie awareness is aware of experiencing seeing through the sense of sight in this human body.

It does not matter what I meant by it it matters if it exists and moreover if you see if it exists or not. Look I know that sounds insane and impossible but this is not logical and it does not need to be logical to be true, like the universe is also not always logical, you see what I mean?

Is experiencing something you are doing or just experiences happening?
Experiencing is happening

Right experiences happen and it seems you do it sometimes but that does not mean it is really true, we will look into that. Actually we do it here, like when taking a ride in a car, spontaneously the thought comes to go to town to buy something, you get in and go, you see other cars, traffic lights, trees but did you cause that experience? The thought to go? The actions, seeing what you saw? Maybe take that ride ;)

So seeing is not you, so the eye is not you, is that also true with all the other senses? Investigate!
Yes- the senses are merely conduits for awareness to experience

Is that true do senses combined make a separate thing called awareness? Or just sensing without a senser?
.

Maybe you are really seeing there is no one doing seeing, no seer and we are done. So if seeing is just happening do you exist? What comes up?
If seeing is just happening, it is happening within awareness and awareness is aware of it happening.

If? Right, is it? Investigate more!

Is seeing just happening or are you doing something for seeing to occur?

Seeing is just happening

This would be good to look at:
For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: ​ ​ Notice all
sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.​ Notice how you're making absolutely no
effort to be aware of them.​ And ​notice that you're not making them happen.​ You're ​ not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.​
And ​notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.​ You're ​effortlessly
aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which
say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts. Look there and tell me what you find.

I find a spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace ......

Nice, is it your spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace .....?? Or is it just a sort of feeling Is there a need to hold on to it? expand a bit.

Ok let's also expand on thoughts and labels here. Can you see that thoughts are labeling everything? Like car and chair and also 'Philomena? And certain feelings? And even a thinker, that self is a label created by thought, but can a thought itself think? Do you think or is thinking just happening without a controller? Are you orchestrating the thoughts?


We're making "progress" keep going.
M

[InspireMe54]

That would be just another identity you cannot find in direct experience, right? Why call it I? Why call it anything? This awareness is it always there?
Yes. Awareness is always present.
Are you really sure about that? What do you consider awareness to be?

It's hard to put into words but I consider awareness to be the very 'stuff'/ substance of the universe within which every experience/movement/expansion is happening. So, when I let go of my perceptions and concepts, I simply rest in the awareness that I am.

3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
No, it can only be felt /known
How does it feel? How is it known?

It is felt and known through the sensations in the body

But how does it feel?
So how does that work? It is seen through the senses that which witnesses you say? How sure are you about that? So how does it look like, sound like, feel, taste and smell then? Be honest for this process to end with seeing it for yourself! Can what is witnessing Itself be witnessed? LOOK right now when reading this…

Awareness itself cannot be tasted, smelled, touched etc These experiences simply arise within awareness .
Awareness cannot be witnessed except by itself

Try not to guess! Look for yourself, don't ask me. We say seeing just happens without you, is that true?
It depends on what you mean by 'you'. I feel seeing happens within awareness through the medium of the eyes ie awareness is aware of experiencing seeing through the sense of sight in this human body.
It does not matter what I meant by it it matters if it exists and moreover if you see if it exists or not. Look I know that sounds insane and impossible but this is not logical and it does not need to be logical to be true, like the universe is also not always logical, you see what I mean?

Yes. I see how logic is a function of the mind and, as such, has limitations. Going beyond the mind and recognising that it too is an experience within awareness is a concept I know but one that gets the mind into tight spot. It's as though I'm willing it to give way so I can just fall into awareness full stop.

Right experiences happen and it seems you do it sometimes but that does not mean it is really true, we will look into that. Actually we do it here, like when taking a ride in a car, spontaneously the thought comes to go to town to buy something, you get in and go, you see other cars, traffic lights, trees but did you cause that experience? The thought to go? The actions, seeing what you saw? Maybe take that ride ;)

I agree spontaneous thoughts appear to arise 'out of nowhere' or instinctively. In that case it's less me causing the experience but, rather, agreeing to take part in the experience.
Deliberate planning seems more likely that the thinker is creating the scenario although that, too, may be coming from a hidden agenda or intuition.

So seeing is not you, so the eye is not you, is that also true with all the other senses? Investigate!
Yes- the senses are merely conduits for awareness to experience
Is that true do senses combined make a separate thing called awareness? /quote]
No- senses combined do not create a separate thing called awareness. Senses are simply ways for awareness to experience through a human body.

Or just sensing without a senser?[

Part of me wants to say ' just sensing' but the mind is working through the questions that for sensing to take place there must be a sensor otherwise what would be the point of the experience. the senses, the human body etc.

Maybe you are really seeing there is no one doing seeing, no seer and we are done. So if seeing is just happening do you exist? What comes up?
If seeing is just happening, it is happening within awareness and awareness is aware of it happening.
If? Right, is it? Investigate more!

Maybe not- maybe there is just awareness and that's all there is. Maybe the rest is just stories I tell myself to justify 'my' existence as a human being.

Nice, is it your spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace .....?? Or is it just a sort of feeling Is there a need to hold on to it? expand a bit.

It is just a sort of feeling. No need to hold onto it as it is always there when I fall back into it

Ok let's also expand on thoughts and labels here. Can you see that thoughts are labelling everything? Like car and chair and also 'Philomena? And certain feelings? And even a thinker, that self is a label created by thought, but can a thought itself think? Do you think or is thinking just happening without a controller? Are you orchestrating the thoughts?

Yes. I see that thoughts are labelling everything and no- a thought cannot think.
If I think I'm thinking then that is just a thought. It's true that thinking just happens though I feel I have got the ability to choose and orchestrate some thoughts when I wish. When I am aware of thinking I can choose to recognise if the thoughts are helpful and , if not, I can change the thoughts to create sensations of wellness in my body to change the experience.

OK- again, thanks for your support and pointing. My little mind is taking me for a cup of tea now!:)

Best wishes, Philomena

[Life]

Yes. Awareness is always present.
Are you really sure about that? What do you consider awareness to be?

It's hard to put into words but I consider awareness to be the very 'stuff'/ substance of the universe within which every experience/movement/expansion is happening. So, when I let go of my perceptions and concepts, I simply rest in the awareness that I am.

In what way are you awareness? And if you are awareness how come you have to make conscious effort to let go of something and rest in it?

But how does it feel?
So how does that work? It is seen through the senses that which witnesses you say? How sure are you about that? So how does it look like, sound like, feel, taste and smell then? Be honest for this process to end with seeing it for yourself! Can what is witnessing Itself be witnessed? LOOK right now when reading this…

Awareness itself cannot be tasted, smelled, touched etc These experiences simply arise within awareness .
Awareness cannot be witnessed except by itself

Yeah then you get awareness watching awareness, so there are two awarenesses now? For this you would first have to identify with awareness and then witness the other awareness, let it go, at least if you want to find out if there truly is a self or not… This is not your belief vs our belief this is not about belief but about what is real and seeing what is true right now in the normal every day direct experience. I say you picked that up from somewhere or someone, nothing wrong with that I know how that feels but it is in the end a never ending struggle to make such an undertaking lasting, better to first check if there really is a you, I, self or ego to do all of that.

Yes. I see how logic is a function of the mind and, as such, has limitations. Going beyond the mind and recognizing that it too is an experience within awareness is a concept I know but one that gets the mind into tight spot. It's as though I'm willing it to give way so I can just fall into awareness full stop.

Ok a tight spot is a lighter version of fear, fear is a sort of protection mechanism, can you look exactly at this tight spot? Is there something behind that it is protecting? Look behind it please, what do you find?

I agree spontaneous thoughts appear to arise 'out of nowhere' or instinctively. In that case it's less me causing the experience but, rather, agreeing to take part in the experience.
Deliberate planning seems more likely that the thinker is creating the scenario although that, too, may be coming from a hidden agenda or intuition.

I understand the inclination to do but try not to answer with "I agree, seems to" and I don't only mean change your vocabulary but specially looking to see what is true in direct experience, hard but doable. But nonetheless when one can see that thoughts just arise then you see they cannot be you or yours. What I mean is you don't choose your impulses, right? The things you like and dislike.
Let's look a little deeper into choice, can you go to another room and get an object and bring it to the computer?

Can you now tell me exactly why you took that particular object? How did you pick?

Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction
etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

Is that true do senses combined make a separate thing called awareness? /quote]
No- senses combined do not create a separate thing called awareness. Senses are simply ways for awareness to experience through a human body.

Again can you actually find this awareness right now? Can you describe it for me? Is it your awareness, are you awareness awaring? Can you see that awareness is just a label for yeah for what?

Or just sensing without a senser?
Part of me wants to say ' just sensing' but the mind is working through the questions that for sensing to take place there must be a sensor otherwise what would be the point of the experience. the senses, the human body etc.

Why must there be a point? That is besides the point. You want to understand your way into this that will not work, seeing that experience does not need an experiencer to be is our aim. Is it so that experience is not personal that it only seems that way? Describe your exact experience right now! Sitting and so on, then look at objects without assigning any word to it at all, just looking…

If seeing is just happening, it is happening within awareness and awareness is aware of it happening.
If? Right, is it? Investigate more

Maybe not- maybe there is just awareness and that's all there is. Maybe the rest is just stories I tell myself to justify 'my' existence as a human being.

Of maybe Santa Claus exists ;) You really needs to get clear by really looking into this more, keep looking, then answer.

Nice, is it your spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace .....?? Or is it just a sort of feeling Is there a need to hold on to it? expand a bit.
It is just a sort of feeling. No need to hold onto it as it is always there when I fall back into it

So are you awareness or are you not awareness? Or what are you?

Ok let's also expand on thoughts and labels here. Can you see that thoughts are labeing everything? Like car and chair and also 'Philomena? And certain feelings? And even a thinker, that self is a label created by thought, but can a thought itself think? Do you think or is thinking just happening without a controller? Are you orchestrating the thoughts
Yes. I see that thoughts are labeling everything and no- a thought cannot think.
If I think I'm thinking then that is just a thought. It's true that thinking just happens though I feel I have got the ability to choose and orchestrate some thoughts when I wish. When I am aware of thinking I can choose to recognize if the thoughts are helpful and , if not, I can change the thoughts to create sensations of wellness in my body to change the experience.

I is also a thought so are you then thought and are thoughts really yours or just thoughts without a thinker?

OK- again, thanks for your support and pointing. My little mind is taking me for a cup of tea now!:)

Does anything differ from looking into these things and drinking tea?

Another exercise about thoughts:
Sit quietly and pay close attention to your thoughts for 20 minutes. Notice that thoughts
seem to pop out of nowhere and have no obvious cause. They are a total surprise and you
can find no cause or reason for their appearance. It should be obvious you were not
involved in any way in the creation of these thoughts.

Do you have unpleasant thoughts? Do you want to have them? If you had any control
over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t
you be able to choose never to have thoughts that seem to make you unhappy?

Okay lots of questions take your time, take care.
Machiel

[InspireMe54]

Dear Machiel,
Please bear with me for the next few days. I am spending time with my family- it's my grandson's first birthday so we are all gathering together. I will be home again on Monday/Tuesday and will resume this thread if that's ok with you.
Thank you for your patience, support & encouragement.
Philomena

[InspireMe54]

It's hard to put into words but I consider awareness to be the very 'stuff'/ substance of the universe within which every experience/movement/expansion is happening. So, when I let go of my perceptions and concepts, I simply rest in the awareness that I am.

In what way are you awareness? And if you are awareness how come you have to make conscious effort to let go of something and rest in it?

The I that is awareness just is. That which makes a conscious effort to let go of the activity of the mind feels to be the limited mind itself.

Awareness itself cannot be tasted, smelled, touched etc These experiences simply arise within awareness .
Awareness cannot be witnessed except by itself

Yeah then you get awareness watching awareness, so there are two awarenesses now? For this you would first have to identify with awareness and then witness the other awareness, let it go, at least if you want to find out if there truly is a self or not… This is not your belief vs our belief this is not about belief but about what is real and seeing what is true right now in the normal every day direct experience. I say you picked that up from somewhere or someone, nothing wrong with that I know how that feels but it is in the end a never ending struggle to make such an undertaking lasting, better to first check if there really is a you, I, self or ego to do all of that.

Again, I think I have been identifying with a concept of mind/ ego as though I need to go through them to open to awareness. When I ask myself 'who is it that is wanting to let go of the concepts etc, then There is only space.


Yes. I see how logic is a function of the mind and, as such, has limitations. Going beyond the mind and recognizing that it too is an experience within awareness is a concept I know but one that gets the mind into tight spot. It's as though I'm willing it to give way so I can just fall into awareness full stop.

Ok a tight spot is a lighter version of fear, fear is a sort of protection mechanism, can you look exactly at this tight spot? Is there something behind that it is protecting? Look behind it please, what do you find?

The thought' the mind is protecting the Mind' comes up yet there is no mind to protect.

I agree spontaneous thoughts appear to arise 'out of nowhere' or instinctively. In that case it's less me causing the experience but, rather, agreeing to take part in the experience.
Deliberate planning seems more likely that the thinker is creating the scenario although that, too, may be coming from a hidden agenda or intuition.
I

understand the inclination to do but try not to answer with "I agree, seems to" and I don't only mean change your vocabulary but specially looking to see what is true in direct experience, hard but doable. But nonetheless when one can see that thoughts just arise then you see they cannot be you or yours. What I mean is you don't choose your impulses, right? The things you like and dislike.
Let's look a little deeper into choice, can you go to another room and get an object and bring it to the computer?

Can you now tell me exactly why you took that particular object? How did you pick?

At first I thought I would choose something lovely, then I realised it didn't matter- an object is just an object, Then I chose something that was practical- that I could use .

Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction
etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

No

Again can you actually find this awareness right now? Can you describe it for me? Is it your awareness, are you awareness awaring? Can you see that awareness is just a label for yeah for what?

There is no need for 'finding' as awareness is always present . It's hard to describe - it feels more like a sensation, spaciousness with no edges.It cannot be owned, boxed, labelled - it just is.

Or just sensing without a senser?
Part of me wants to say ' just sensing' but the mind is working through the questions that for sensing to take place there must be a sensor otherwise what would be the point of the experience. the senses, the human body etc.

Why must there be a point? That is besides the point. You want to understand your way into this that will not work, seeing that experience does not need an experiencer to be is our aim. Is it so that experience is not personal that it only seems that way? Describe your exact experience right now! Sitting and so on, then look at objects without assigning any word to it at all, just looking…

Sitting. feeling. hearing. thinking. typing, sensing, seeing,


Maybe not- maybe there is just awareness and that's all there is. Maybe the rest is just stories I tell myself to justify 'my' existence as a human being.

Of maybe Santa Claus exists ;) You really needs to get clear by really looking into this more, keep looking, then answer.

There is just this presence

Nice, is it your spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace .....?? Or is it just a sort of feeling Is there a need to hold on to it? expand a bit.
It is just a sort of feeling. No need to hold onto it as it is always there when I fall back into it

So are you awareness or are you not awareness? Or what are you?

I am awareness

Ok let's also expand on thoughts and labels here. Can you see that thoughts are labeing everything? Like car and chair and also 'Philomena? And certain feelings? And even a thinker, that self is a label created by thought, but can a thought itself think? Do you think or is thinking just happening without a controller? Are you orchestrating the thoughts
Yes. I see that thoughts are labeling everything and no- a thought cannot think.
If I think I'm thinking then that is just a thought. It's true that thinking just happens though I feel I have got the ability to choose and orchestrate some thoughts when I wish. When I am aware of thinking I can choose to recognize if the thoughts are helpful and , if not, I can change the thoughts to create sensations of wellness in my body to change the experience.

I is also a thought so are you then thought and are thoughts really yours or just thoughts without a thinker?

I see now that Thoughts just happen without a thinker.

OK- again, thanks for your support and pointing. My little mind is taking me for a cup of tea now!:)

Does anything differ from looking into these things and drinking tea?

Not really. All are happenings within awareness.

Another exercise about thoughts:
Sit quietly and pay close attention to your thoughts for 20 minutes. Notice that thoughts
seem to pop out of nowhere and have no obvious cause. They are a total surprise and you
can find no cause or reason for their appearance. It should be obvious you were not
involved in any way in the creation of these thoughts.

Do you have unpleasant thoughts?

yes at times
[quote Do you want to have them?[/quote] I don't mind any more- the more I realise I am not my thoughts, the less my body responds to them.

If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t
you be able to choose never to have thoughts that seem to make you unhappy?

Recognising that thoughts happen, rather than choose not to think them, I can just allow them to be without being affected by them.

Okay lots of questions take your time, take care.

Thank you Machiel. It was interesting today that each of my children had planned something for themselves this evening and it meant me having time to sit with these questions. I am grateful for having this opportunity to sit and grateful to you for the questions.
Kind regards,
Philomena

[Life]

The I that is awareness just is. That which makes a conscious effort to let go of the activity of the mind feels to be the limited mind itself.

You say you are awareness, is that really true? Are you in control of awareness? Is this awareness always there? Are you always there also in deep sleep or unconscious? Awareness is but is it you?

Again, I think I have been identifying with a concept of mind/ ego as though I need to go through them to open to awareness. When I ask myself 'who is it that is wanting to let go of the concepts etc, then There is only space.

Great, only who is it that needs to open (up) to awareness? Leave awareness alone for a while do you exist as a solid, rigid separate entity to be open or closed to awareness?

The thought' the mind is protecting the Mind' comes up yet there is no mind to protect.

Not what I asked there, is there something behind the tight spot? Can you see or look at this tight spot directly? So no mind to protect, is there also no I to protect?

At first I thought I would choose something lovely, then I realised it didn't matter- an object is just an object, Then I chose something that was practical- that I could use.

Good, did you choose those thoughts used to eventually pick the item you chose? Do you choose impulses and preferences?

There is no need for 'finding' as awareness is always present . It's hard to describe - it feels more like a sensation, spaciousness with no edges.It cannot be owned, boxed, labelled - it just is.

Yeah, that's it, no edges no place for a separate self.

Sitting. feeling. hearing. thinking. typing, sensing, seeing,

Please try not to pick and choose which questions to answer… Is a meaning needed for experience. the senses, the human body? Is it so that experience is not personal that it only seems that way? then look at objects without assigning any word to it at all, just looking… Try this again in the same way, describe what is happening right now then freshly look at objects without paying attention to the interpreter, just looking…

Maybe not- maybe there is just awareness and that's all there is. Maybe the rest is just stories I tell myself to justify 'my' existence as a human being.

Of maybe Santa Claus exists ;) You really needs to get clear by really looking into this more, keep looking, then answer.

There is just this presence.

Nice, is it your spaciousness/ emptiness/ awareness- / presence/ peace .....?? Or is it just a sort of feeling Is there a need to hold on to it? expand a bit.
It is just a sort of feeling. No need to hold onto it as it is always there when I fall back into it

So are you awareness or are you not awareness? Or what are you?
I am awareness

If you are awareness how do you fall back into it as well?

Look directly at self or I, can you see it? Sense of i yes but does it really point to something?

I see now that Thoughts just happen without a thinker.

Is that capital there on purpose?

Does anything differ from looking into these things and drinking tea?
Not really. All are happenings within awareness.

Are you drinking or just drinking happening? Cup to mouth, feeling the hotness, tasting, no you doing it?

Another exercise about thoughts:
Sit quietly and pay close attention to your thoughts for 20 minutes. Notice that thoughts
seem to pop out of nowhere and have no obvious cause. They are a total surprise and you
can find no cause or reason for their appearance. It should be obvious you were not
involved in any way in the creation of these thoughts.

Do you have unpleasant thoughts?

yes at times
[quote Do you want to have them? I don't mind any more- the more I realize I am not my thoughts, the less my body responds to them. [/quote]You are either your thoughts or your not thoughts, if you can realize it more or less then it's not fully realized.

If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t
you be able to choose never to have thoughts that seem to make you unhappy?
Recognizing that thoughts happen, rather than choose not to think them, I can just allow them to be without being affected by them.

Who is doing that? Are you the allower or is allowing them just happening?

Okay lots of questions take your time, take care.
Thank you Machiel. It was interesting today that each of my children had planned something for themselves this evening and it meant me having time to sit with these questions. I am grateful for having this opportunity to sit and grateful to you for the questions.
Kind regards,
Philomena

Things always work out ;) Still try also to look in every day life also when not sitting for it, just some questions in the head wondering who did that scratch or tidied the hair, that type of thing.

ps. Try only to quote the questions and then answer else we get huge heaps of text cluttering together…

[InspireMe54]

You say you are awareness, is that really true? Are you in control of awareness? Is this awareness always there? Are you always there also in deep sleep or unconscious? Awareness is but is it you?

Awareness is always present , experiencing the world through this body/ these senses. Nothing to control- simply experiencing sensing,

Great, only who is it that needs to open (up) to awareness? Leave awareness alone for a while do you exist as a solid, rigid separate entity to be open or closed to awareness?

No, I do not exist as a separate entity, merely an expression of consciousness.

Not what I asked there, is there something behind the tight spot? Can you see or look at this tight spot directly? So no mind to protect, is there also no I to protect?

There is no mind to protect and no I to protect

Good, did you choose those thoughts used to eventually pick the item you chose? Do you choose impulses and preferences?

I don't know who's doing the choosing anymore!

Is a meaning needed for experience. the senses, the human body? Is it so that experience is not personal that it only seems that way?

No meaning is needed in experiencing - it just happens

then look at objects without assigning any word to it at all, just looking… Try this again in the same way, describe what is happening right now then freshly look at objects without paying attention to the interpreter, just looking…

Yes, just looking is happening.

If you are awareness how do you fall back into it as well?

There is no self to fall into or out of anything

Is that capital there on purpose?

No- sorry - typo

Are you drinking or just drinking happening? Cup to mouth, feeling the hotness, tasting, no you doing it?

Drinking is just happening.

Who is doing that? Are you the allower or is allowing them just happening?

Allowing is just happening

ps. Try only to quote the questions and then answer else we get huge heaps of text cluttering togethe

r…
Yes-I seem to have been getting myself into some confusion- or confusion was happening. Hopefully easier to follow now.

Kind regards,
Philomena

[Life]

So then I feel you are right there at the gate, seeing happening, sensing happening, actions happening without I it happens to. So question are you an expression of consciousness or is there only consciousness without anything separate?

Do you exist is any way shape or form or beyond separately?

Is there a self in actual reality? Do you see a self in nature? Can you go into nature? Check with babies, or in animals? Look at birds, trees, plants all insects crawling around doing exactly what needs to be done, is there separation of a self? Maybe a sense of self for survival but is there a self in control of it all?

Sorry for the slow reaction something came up that graps some more attention now but will always respond eventually.
Take care,
Machiel

[InspireMe54]

So question are you an expression of consciousness or is there only consciousness without anything separate?

Consciousness is all there is , experiencing this world through everything in it ( in consciousness) . I am finding it hard to express what I mean.

Do you exist is any way shape or form or beyond separately?

No - if I say I am an expression or instrument of consciousness, the expression/ instrument is consciousness and not separate from it.

Is there a self in actual reality?

No

Do you see a self in nature?

No- all is simply flowing

Can you go into nature?

Nature and I are one

Check with babies, or in animals? Look at birds, trees, plants all insects crawling around doing exactly what needs to be done, is there separation of a self?

No- there is just being

Maybe a sense of self for survival but is there a self in control of it all?

No- just Divine Intelligence/ consciousness/ the ineffable

Sorry for the slow reaction something came up that graps some more attention now but will always respond eventually

.
Please do not apologise for anything. I am most grateful for your time and pointers. It is very valuable to me.
In appreciation.
Philomena

[Life]

Can you go to a forest if humanly possible, actually go for a walk and see! :) Saying there is no self and concluding it is not is something else than seeing it in direct experience. When walking look are you doing the walking or is walking just happening, breath happening no you deciding where to go and what to look at? Go

[InspireMe54]

C

an you go to a forest if humanly possible, actually go for a walk and see! :) Saying there is no self and concluding it is not is something else than seeing it in direct experience. When walking look are you doing the walking or is walking just happening, breath happening no you deciding where to go and what to look at? Go

Hi Makhiel.
I hope you are well.
I must admit I am finding the not deciding where to go etc rather difficult. I get that walking is taking place but I also know where I'm walking, otherwise I might get lost. Bear with what may seem ignorance but I think I'm having a hard time letting go of ego. I keep trying to figure it out when, at the same time, part of me knows there's nothing to figure out.....
I hope I'm not wasting your time.
Philomena

[Life]

Hi Makhiel.
I hope you are well.
I must admit I am finding the not deciding where to go etc rather difficult. I get that walking is taking place but I also know where I'm walking, otherwise I might get lost. Bear with what may seem ignorance but I think I'm having a hard time letting go of ego. I keep trying to figure it out when, at the same time, part of me knows there's nothing to figure out.....
I hope I'm not wasting your time.
Philomena

Always well exactly as it is…
Look, isn't it more like there is walking accompanied by the thought "I am paying attention else I might get lost"? Paying attention happening but no you doing it. Like the center, nature of the mind is there but no you to get there. Not going from point A to B but from A to A here and nobody to get there. Then the question should be who is trying to let go of himself? Are you trying to figure it all out or are there a lot of thoughts making it seem like there is a you doing that?
No that is the thing in the end there is no you as "the client" or a me as "the guide" and no "gate" we need to go through, no one's time is either wasted or put to good use, everything unfolding as it does…
Life

[Life]

Hi Philomena, please report back. Going into nature again for these questions I asked is not a necessity but of course a good idea although you can answer from last experience there or your general experience of nature. This process here is a simple theory there is no self anywhere look. Like let the eyes go shut and there is blackness seen, are you doing the seeing? Then open eyes everything is seem, are you in it? Or just experience of the senses, thoughts possibly leading to emotions like always but is a separate you in it? If you look for what is behind all that, is there anything there doing this? Some owner or doer? Or is it that there is just thinking, sensing, emoting but no thinker, senser or emoter that is the owner of them?

Two exercises on movement:
Palm Flipping Exercise
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like,
and each time inquire:-
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought
MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or
down?

Raising Hand Exercise
1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not
the other.
Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like,
and each time inquire:-
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Stay with direct experience, don't go into the thought content which is never actually the truth, that is only going into story land, see? It will not work along with seeing it's own nonexistence, so it is not relevant what mind thinks, what is mind, can you find the mind behind the thoughts?

With encouragement,
Machiel