No me

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana -

Bahyia sutta

In the seen, there is only the seen,

There is just seeing, not a separate seer or an object. There is no one looking

in the heard, there is only the heard

,

Sound is not separate from hearing. It’s just hearing

in the sensed, there is only the sensed,

In sensation, there isn’t a separate feeler. Just sensation.

in the cognized, there is only the cognized.

I had to look up this word, which is to perceive or be aware of. Yes there’s no perceiver. Perceiving happens… I wonder if this is talking about perceiving that is constant… I wonder if the little gaps are a perception of emptiness

Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.

in my experience this means when you see there is no one looking… you can keep checking your immediate experience. For instance when thought says “I’m frustrated” , immediately a practice can arise that asks, is there anyone here that is frustration and there’s a recognition that it’s just frustration arising for no one

Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,

I think this is repeating the previous lines …

and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.

When I see there is no one here in this body, I see there is no one in my son… husband daughter. The objects named as chair is just a label for emptiness. Emptiness chairing chairing.

As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.”

If there’s no one in the body, nothing can find itself anywhere. There’s no this and that. There’s no two. There’s no between. There’s no separation. Suffering ends when the sense of separation is seen through as an illusion.

Warm feelings of sensation in my chest while looking at this often and writing about it…

Love, nikkie

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie.

If there’s no one in the body, nothing can find itself anywhere. There’s no this and that. There’s no two. There’s no between. There’s no separation. Suffering ends when the sense of separation is seen through as an illusion.

Such a beautiful description. Mental suffering ends yes and what's left is everything without been labeled with thougths constantly. This doesn't mean that we are protected from phisical pain and unresolve trauma's. They are just seen as not mine.

What I would suggest is one of the next day to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Nikkie am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is here and answer these questions:

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?

Does the character choose this story?

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?

Can the story of Nikkie be seen as what it is - just a story, including Nikkie?


Take your time
Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana -

What I would suggest is one of the next day to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Nikkie am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is here and answer these questions:

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?

There is no choice in what the character is doing. Feelings arise, wow look at how the snow glistens… even what direction to walk is spontaneous, which way to go. There’s just noticing thoughts - thoughts that come from nowhere and are empty in their meaning - sensations of cold on the body, sensations of tiredness in the legs all arising with the sound of a snow plow, and children in the background - yes, one happening. And wow, everything is equal. There’s no specialness in what is arising and somehow it is all so beautiful.

Does the character choose this story?

No the character cannot choose the story, because the character is a story. A story can arise, but it comes and goes.

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?

No it cannot choose another story. A thought might come that says there’s a choice about what I’m doing - even this exercise - but if I really look, writing is just happening, looking is happening. Happiness is arising for no reason. The story is feeling even lighter. Even reflecting on the apparent “dark night” period, that seems lighter. And funny. So, no, there is no choice in what story is chosen. It’s a choice less story for no one lol

Can the story of Nikkie be seen as what it is - just a story, including Nikkie?

Oh yes! Even reading that name “nikkie”, who is she even? I don’t know. Thoughts.. stories. Actually just laughter is coming, because it is seen she never existed. A fictional character in a fictional movie written by no one performing to no one lol she is made up.

Love, nikkie (haha)

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie,

There is no choice in what the character is doing. Feelings arise, wow look at how the snow glistens… even what direction to walk is spontaneous, which way to go. There’s just noticing thoughts - thoughts that come from nowhere and are empty in their meaning - sensations of cold on the body, sensations of tiredness in the legs all arising with the sound of a snow plow, and children in the background - yes, one happening. And wow, everything is equal. There’s no specialness in what is arising and somehow it is all so beautiful.

I am smiling :-)

you did a beautiful imvestigation.

Oh yes! Even reading that name “nikkie”, who is she even? I don’t know. Thoughts.. stories. Actually just laughter is coming, because it is seen she never existed. A fictional character in a fictional movie written by no one performing to no one lol she is made up.

Such a joke, m? :-)

Even reflecting on the apparent “dark night” period, that seems lighter. And funny. So, no, there is no choice in what story is chosen. It’s a choice less story for no one lol

Let's look at the apparent “dark night” period and the assumption that this period is a part of a timeline and eventually it happened.


So what is time (in this very moment)?

How time is experienced?

What is past and future?

How past or future is experienced?

Does past or future ‘exists’ other than contents of thoughts?

Is there a proof that you had dinner last night?

Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Have fun.

Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana,

So what is time (in this very moment)?

I can’t tell what time is. It’s just what seems to be happening. You could say a clock is ticking for practical means, but I can’t find real time.

How time is experienced?

For you to make time seem real, you’d have to create a timeline. Thoughts come, story appears, story of events in order, creating a fictional character called nikkie, apparent memories appearing, creating a present moment (which doesn’t exist), then adding on a future (which doesn’t exist). Now looking, past present and future are only thoughts labeling thoughts or stories lol you could say apparently the body ages… the babies get bigger but only when an appearance of thought compares a body to an image of a past body.

What is past and future?

They are images appearing in the mind. What a joke! The me creates it… and me is only a thought.

How past or future is experienced?

It can’t be really experienced. It can be a thought of a memory - there is no memory bank. It’s just a random thought happening. And as for future, it’s another image appearing, usually a spooky one or a pleasant one. Neither past nor future are an experience, they are an appearance - an illusory appearance.

Does past or future ‘exists’ other than contents of thoughts?

No, past and future does not exist. It’s a thought. An empty thought. A story.

Is there a proof that you had dinner last night?

I can’t find any proof of dinner last night. An assumption - a thought -can appear if there are dishes in the sink. But only a thought.

Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

A sadness arose today upon this reflection. What if all the “good” experiences never happened? I never did that “amazing” thing, AND IT NEVER happened (wow), I never gave birth to 2 babies. Wow… you could say the proof that birth happened is babies are here. But the memory doesn’t even feel that real. It feels like a story now. Almost like it never happened. There are photos of the past, but does that prove that something happened? I can’t say. It appears as though photos of images are appearing - and thats all. a story comes after to say what that was and what it means and gives a timeline. But this thought is only thought.

I am looking…has the past ever happened? It does not feel like it happened. The past doesn’t feel real. Lately when someone asks what I did this week or weekend, I can’t remember. I have to try really hard to remember but no memories are really sticking.

Did I ever birth my daughter? The memory of that day appears, but that is all. And the mystery of her stunning eyes.

Is there any more depth to this looking of timelessness?

Love,
Nikkie

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie,

another beautiul invesitgation.

For you to make time seem real, you’d have to create a timeline. Thoughts come, story appears, story of events in order, creating a fictional character called nikkie, apparent memories appearing, creating a present moment (which doesn’t exist), then adding on a future (which doesn’t exist). Now looking, past present and future are only thoughts labeling thoughts or stories lol you could say apparently the body ages… the babies get bigger but only when an appearance of thought compares a body to an image of a past body.

Exactly! Present moment as such can't be found.

A sadness arose today upon this reflection. What if all the “good” experiences never happened? I never did that “amazing” thing, AND IT NEVER happened (wow), I never gave birth to 2 babies. Wow… you could say the proof that birth happened is babies are here. But the memory doesn’t even feel that real. It feels like a story now. Almost like it never happened. There are photos of the past, but does that prove that something happened? I can’t say. It appears as though photos of images are appearing - and thats all. a story comes after to say what that was and what it means and gives a timeline. But this thought is only thought.

Oh, sadness is so welcome here. Yes, there maybe a sense of grief and loss.

Is it ok to fully feel the sadness?
Sink deeper in the pure sensation and notice

Does the sadness belong to someone?

Did I ever birth my daughter? The memory of that day appears, but that is all. And the mystery of her stunning eyes.

My eyes are full of tears. Thank you for this revelation.

Is there any more depth to this looking of timelessness?

Yes, we can sink a little bit more here

Let's look again for the so called "now" or "present moment"

What is the experience of the now moving along the line of time?

How fast the "present moment" is actually moving?

How long does the now last?

Where does it start and where does it end?

When does the now exactly become the past?

How is it known that the now is moving? Or that it lasts?

How is it known exactly that there is such thing as 'now'?

Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana -

Thank you again.

Is it ok to fully feel the sadness?

Yes. It is… what’s happening.

Sink deeper in the pure sensation and notice

Just a tingling in the chest, a watery of the eyes, a sense of home. Hmm empty sadness without a story, it’s never had a story.

Upon reading, “There is no you dreaming”…just a naked sadness without a story. A full sadness… a beauty in the mystery.

Does the sadness belong to someone?

No. It’s just emotion appearing, a sensation appearing, a story might appear after.

Let's look again for the so called "now" or "present moment"

What is the experience of the now moving along the line of time?

It can’t be found. A personal thought tries to take a snap shot or hold what is. It’s ungraspable. There’s no now. But if there seems to be a now it’s bc a story appears to add to what is… what just happened early today or what is planned to come later … those two movements of mind appear to create a now. But it is an illusion. While walking to the bathroom, thoughts appear “I did this today and that’s good and now there’s more to do later” it’s kinda funny when looked at…

How fast the "present moment" is actually moving?

My husband just clapped his hands 3 times while reading this, Son is jumping, toys making sounds. How could the instantaneous of the simultaneous-ness of this be found? There isn’t a time or distance to what is happening

How long does the now last?

It never began… wow to say that… to see that and recognize it. The now never happens

Where does it start and where does it end?

Yes, yes, it never began, and never ended. Just a warmth flooding the chest of this body upon recognizing

When does the now exactly become the past?

It can’t be found .. slippery no time, and yet the clock gives us a story… for life to unfold. But life cannot be contained. The time, the now, is an add on story…for function.

How is it known that the now is moving? Or that it lasts?

In order for there to be a “now” moving, there has to appear a narrative which creates a story about what was, is and will be. For it to seem like there is a “now” lasting, there has to be a story about “this is the now”, “I’m in the now”, “look how wonderful the now is.”

How is it known exactly that there is such thing as 'now'?

Well it can’t actually be known. Unless there is a story running about a past present and future. It is seen here that even if there is a narrative running about time, it’s just a story. The elusive now is a dream.

Love, nikkie

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie,

Upon reading, “There is no you dreaming”…just a naked sadness without a story. A full sadness… a beauty in the mystery.

Sadness can be sweet when the story is seen for what it is - just a story :-)


And you did an exellent investigation

Yes, "now" is nothing more than a word, a concept like time, space, conciosness, awareness ...Self ..wholness, oneness.
And it is so funny when all these are taken to be something very serios and solid.

How do you feel about this?
Are there any expectaions hiding that it could be any different?
Was there ever been a self, a you separate from life happening?
Are there any doubts?
Is there something else you would like to look at together?


Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Hi Luchana!!

Sorry it took some time to get back. I wanted to take some more time with this. Also the teething baby is looking for extra attention!

Yes, "now" is nothing more than a word, a concept like time, space, conciosness, awareness ...Self ..wholness, oneness.
And it is so funny when all these are taken to be something very serios and solid.

How do you feel about this?

Yes, reading your words… I feel like wow, of course this has always been the case. There’s a lightness while looking. And throughout the day. It’s very playful for the most part. Silly. Also some rushes of frustration. Like a release valve, not sure if it’s hormones or what.. but that’s just looking for a story or reason. Just frustration and anger are appearing. Guilt doesn’t seem to stick, although it can arise. Also a deep sense of relief that there’s nothing more to do lol… as If there ever was…Anyone doing anything !

Yes, those words you used are meaningless (now time space consciousness awareness - even god) , so you could use them them as pointers but they don’t really mean anything.

Are there any expectaions hiding that it could be any different?

This could not be any different. That’s obvious. Even the intensity in emotion that is coming. How could it?

Was there ever been a self, a you separate from life happening?

Self is an assumption. It is only a belief - or a thought or a concept lol. No, there has never been a separate self.

Are there any doubts?

What arises is the space concept. So I did some looking last night. While my husband rubbed my feet, “is there a me in this body and a him over there?” Because an assumption arises like I am in this body…. I’m here. So when I looked… No. Only sensation arising, but where are the feet? I can’t find a me or feet. Is there a him over there? No. Only seeing a body, no distance. Seeing and a body are not separate. hands, feet, sensation, one happening.

Another doubt… is this really it? Simplicity that has always been? Of course this is so sweet and hilarious. But there’s a thought that arises that says “when you look in the mirror it should look like there is no you looking…”. This is an assumption based on stories I’ve heard that have been told.

A belief that says you aren’t there yet… then comes some laughter… you aren’t there at all anyway…

Is there something else you would like to look at together?

Just the thing I stare above… this assumption that looking in the mirror would appear differently…

Love, nikkie

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie,

what a wonderful replies and what a wondeful meeting today.

We cover almost everything and like I mentioned - there are more beliefes and things to be seen, but usally when the self is seen as non-existent it is easer to look at whats left.

HEre is a beautiful video where Illona is saying almost everything that could be said about this so called phase.
Enjoy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w&t=309s

Just the thing I stare above… this assumption that looking in the mirror would appear differently…

Why would appear differently? :-)
Just because we've seen through the illusion that there never was a separate self to begin with?
Yes, it is just an assumption..and that's all.

Here are some more questions to look at:

Investigate the followings one-by-one very carefully. Spend several minutes with each question.

Is there a control over ‘sensations’?

Is there a control over ‘sounds’?

Is there a control over ‘visual image/colors’?

Is there a control over ‘smells’?

Is there a control over ‘tastes’?

Is there a control over ‘thoughts’?

Is there a control over anything?

Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana -

Hi oh yes so lovely to chat today! Such joy

Here are some more questions to look at:

Investigate the followings one-by-one very carefully. Spend several minutes with each question.

Is there a control over ‘sensations’?

No, sensations just appear. Coolness on skin, tightness in back, breath on nostrils… pursing of lips. Exploring during a bath..heat on skin, belly feeling full of food, body tense and body relaxes. Baby nursing on skin. Just sensations appearing

Is there a control over ‘sounds’?

No there isn’t a controller of sounds, no awareness that can be directed. Just sounds appearing …or hearing happening. There’s a thought who can claim a redirection of thoughts, but it’s just a thought claim to have control. Just sounds are happening or hearing is happening.

Is there a control over ‘visual image/colors’?

There is no controller of images and colors being seen. There’s no one who decides which way to scan the room or where to rest the eyes. Seeing happens… spontaneously

Is there a control over ‘smells’?

No control of smells. Smelling happens or doesn’t happen. There’s no aware, separate person smelling … just scent or smelling.

Is there a control over ‘tastes’?

No control over tastes. Flavors appear. There’s no one who can decide to taste. Taste happens. Taste is kind of a sensation in a way. Just a word, taste.

Is there a control over ‘thoughts’?

No controller over thoughts. They just appear. Even the thought that says don’t think that or do think this, is just another thought. No one is behind the thought.

Is there a control over anything?

Nope! No control at all in the least.

Love, nikkie

[NikkiePhil21]

L - oh, and yes Illona’s video is perfect. Watched it twice!

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie.

beuatiful

No control whatsoever seems to be the case :-)

It seems also that I am about to send you so callled final questions. Althougth nothing is final, there is no final as there is no begining..lol. But we could say that seeing that there is no one running the show called "my life" opens wildly a door to live and explore this mystery with awe and wonder.

And because LU is focused on guiding that there is no separate self our chat is going to its end. But only here in the forum.
We will continue with our meetings - I would love to! Also there are some other areas here in the forum to explore and in FB as well if you decide to join there.

So shall I send those questions?
How do you feel about this?


Much love,
Luchana

[NikkiePhil21]

Luchana ,

But we could say that seeing that there is no one running the show called "my life" opens wildly a door to live and explore this mystery with awe and wonder.

This just gave my body tingles and a big smile.
And yes, I love our chats, so I’d like to keep talking about the unfoldings - thank you !

So shall I send those questions?

Yes I’m ready lol

How do you feel about this?

I feel excited to look… appearing within a backdrop of stillness.

Love, nikkie

[Luchana]

Hi Nikkie,

great!

Of we go :-)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.


6) Anything to add?



Have fun.

Much love,
Luchana