Not certain

[Fiann]

Thanks for the update Stacy!

I'll be glad to hear of whatever comes.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

We got one question:

Hi Stacy, Fiann said "I've enjoyed answering these questions. They bring the whole topic into fuller view. But it still feels like it lives in thought: thought that there is no me. I wonder if there's anything I could do to make this clearer on the level of sensation, or even to reduce the number of selfing thoughts I get." Do you think that he (she) is done or does it need further investigation ?

How does it FEEL to see there is no "self?"

Has there been a shift in how it feels?

If not. yes, more pointing is needed.

Loving,

[Fiann]

Hmm this is interesting. It's the feeling that really makes me not certain.

How does it FEEL to see there is no "self?"

When called to mind, there is often a loosening up, particularly in the chest and shoulders. There's still tension around questions of what "I'm" doing with "my" life, where "my" spiritual practice is going, and being reminded of no-self offers less release in these areas.

Has there been a shift in how it feels?

Has there been a shift in how things feel in general? No, not really. Life keeps lifeing, and while I don't believe dogmatically in a self and have this built in to my worldview, its business as usual for the rest of the organism.

I regularly hear about the relief people experience once they've been through the gate and that hasn't been part of my experience. This makes me doubt.

What do you think, Stacy?

[Anastacia42]

Let's do a few pointers & see what comes up, starting v with some basics. Remember, LOOK,as in Colored Socks.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Just understand questions as written. We use language a little differently sometimes, attempting to more accurate.

Loving,

[Fiann]

Hey Stacy, going through a few pointers sounds good. I haven't had the chance to get around to giving this the appropriate time so I'll respond tomorrow when I do and answer these questions.

[Anastacia42]

Very good.

[Fiann]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second one, without an I, is truer. If there is any experience at all, like sitting, to say "I am sitting" is to add something extra.

2. What is here without labels?

Just sense experience, sensations, movements of attention.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels seem to be an added part of the experience. There is an experience of sensation, and then an label of "breathing", and then there can be a label of "I" on top. The "I" on top acts as a sort of weight and the experience appears differently, more complicated.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Definitely. I hadn't noticed this before and in many cases the difference was subtle. But when the I is added on top then the place in body the experience occured became tighter or more hard. This even happened when labelling "I am releasing my jaw"!

A very interesting one was when I noticed tightness in the bladder. When labelled as "I need to pee", there was discomfort. When labelled only as "pressure", "tightness", the urgency fell away.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good & good morning.

It has been found that tightness, heaviness, or contraction, usually in the gut or heart, indicates a lie. Relaxation, lightness or expansion indicates something true.


The seeing and visceral dawning of the fact of no self, to me :) , felt like a huge truth. It hit me like a ton of bricks. With others it is more subtle.

Keep paying attention for this contraction or expansion.


Let's take a Direct Look at sounds & hearing.

Hearing Exercise

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Whatever it is, I'll just refer to it as 'what can be heard'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears?

Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?


Loving,

[Fiann]

It has been found that tightness, heaviness, or contraction, usually in the gut or heart, indicates a lie. Relaxation, lightness or expansion indicates something true.

Thanks for this Stacy. I've been pointed towards expansion / contraction before but having it laid out like this makes a lot of sense.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears?

Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

In hearing there's only that which is heard. They're basically the same thing - if nothing was heard, there would be no hearing.

There is nothing doing the hearing!

There's definitely no I or any of the rest. None of these exist in direct experience. They can only be inferred by thoughts.

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

I just find sounds. And the more I let there be sound and nothing else the more expansive all experience is. The body relaxes more and more. As above, a hearer can only be found in thought.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Fiann,

Very good!

I just find sounds. And the more I let there be sound and nothing else the more expansive all experience is. The body relaxes more and more.

Yes! Perfect!

As you relax, SEEING becomes easier, until eventually, it is quite normal. The honeymoon period many experience seems very similar to the rush of expansion of SEEING truth. At least, that's my story. ;) Then it becomes normal. You don't lose the ability to think there is a "me" to interact with the world, but you no longer believe it. Seeking disappears. Overall, you are more relaxed.

You can practice this with Hearing, Seeing or any sense. Just let there be the Actual Experience and nothing more.

Why don't you do that? Practice with each Sense. Report what is found.

You might do it like this:

Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colors, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between youand life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found

You are quite welcome.

Loving,

[Fiann]

So this relaxing into direct experience is something I'm familiar with from spiritual practice. Although I could go a lot deeper with this (and these pointers are helpful to do that!) I'm wondering about an all-in, full strength seeing. I can get a taste of it, notice it, keep attention towards it, but it remains somewhat subtle. I'm still unsure about "seeing" an absence.

You can practice this with Hearing, Seeing or any sense. Just let there be the Actual Experience and nothing more.

Why don't you do that? Practice with each Sense. Report what is found

Each sense behaves in the same way, but with its own unique flavour. Sensations and hearing I find are quite obviously just happening - they are a lot like weather as you mention. I know that visual information is the same, but it is less obvious because there is a story about control in the eyes - I can always look away! But yes, the sights just appear, not coming from anywhere or going anywhere else.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

No boundary - and no space to be boundaried in perception really. It all arises in experience which doesn't exist in a "place" separate to another place where the objects are.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

I don't know if I understand this question. If you're referring to an inner world and outer world (like thoughts vs sight) then no, there is no inside or outside. All sense objects appear on their own, along with all volitions. Thoughts spins stories between them giving appearance of intention, preference, relating, but the thoughts are not in any way special - thought has its own flavour but it's still part of the weather.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Witnessing is the movement isn't it? Nothing appears in experience without being witnessed! No distance, no proximity - it doesn't really apply. How close is a flower to its petals?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Not at all! The sense of self is a story that just happens and the stopping of the story just happens. So if the story stops, what is there to look for, find, see? Can this lack be seen?

[Anastacia42]

Hi Fiann,

this relaxing into direct experience is something I'm familiar with from spiritual practice. Although I could go a lot deeper with this (and these pointers are helpful to do that!) I'm wondering about an all-in, full strength seeing.

That's a lot of expectation there. Expectations & fear are the only things that can keep you from SEEING.

This is the practice. You LOOK where the pointers point. Nothing can be found, of course, since there's no self. Relaxed LOOKING brings the shift in Awareness.

It's best not to assume this is the same as going deeper in previous practices. It may or may not be. But *thinking* you know all about it from previous practice isn't LOOKING in this moment. It prevents LOOKING.

Please watch this video:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers?" It is a free download under Resources on this site. Please do.

That may help. Some people have SEEN just following along with the reading. It will give you a sense of how this works. But remember, when & how you see is completely out of your control & unpredictable.

Don't analyze & compare. LOOK

Loving,

.

[Fiann]

Hey Stacy,

That's a lot of expectation there. Expectations & fear are the only things that can keep you from SEEING.

I think there's something to what you're saying. Yes, there are actually expectations I was less aware of - I have ideas about what seeing is based on what I've heard / read elsewhere.

Please watch this video:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Thanks for the video. He talks about seeing your own absence which sparks my interest!

Have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers?" It is a free download under Resources on this site. Please do.

I haven't read the book, but I have spent time with the Enlightening Quotes app. I'll download it!

And I'll keep looking!

[Fiann]

Could you say something about the seeing? I have understood so far that it is like an obvious knowing.

I can know there's no self, and I can know in the moment that feelings are happening without any feeler. When a feeling arise I can look at it and notice there's nothing behind it, inside it, or supporting it.

Is this what's meant by seeing?

[Anastacia42]

Hi

Could you say something about the seeing? I have understood so far that it is like an obvious knowing.

That's why I'm suggesting you read "Gateless Gatecrashers." See if you notice when the shift happens for each client. Those are good answers to your question.

I can know there's no self, and I can know in the moment that feelings are happening without any feeler. When a feeling arise I can look at it and notice there's nothing behind it, inside it, or supporting it.

Is this what's meant by seeing?

Who is this "I" that "knows?"

Remember Colored Socks? Answer only with

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Read GG then ask if you have more questions. It can be subtle & I have no experience with that. It hits me like a ton of bricks. The only comparison I have is being high on acid or mushrooms or marijuana, but naturally without a "chemical" feel to it. But that doesn't remain. It's a "honeymoon phase." SEEING is beyond the high it can bring.

Loving,