Liberation

[Eli24]

Hi Trisha,

How is the movement controlled?

The movement is just happening its not being controlled.

Does a thought control it?

A thought does not control it, its background commentary.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

A 'controller' cannot be located. Its unexplainable but the hand is just moving.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

There is no decision to turn the hand over. There was a thought "turn", but its just a label. In the actual experience it was just what was happening.

Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Nothing chose the left hand for the exercise, it was just what was happening.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Wow there is no separate individual choosing to do it. When its looked at, there is just the hand turning. There was deep relaxation after doing this exercise.





Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hey Eli,



you said it brilliantly:

there is no separate individual choosing to do it, there is just the hand turning

Eli, can you please look at some of the ‘decisions’ that happened in your life: school, career, friends, love, partners, car, house, hobbies?
And what about dressing in the morning?

Can you detect any ‘decid-ER’ in any of these happenings?

There was deep relaxation after doing this exercise.

How does it FEEL to see that there is no ‘self' and no chooser or controller?
Is anything different?




Lots of love to you

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hi Trisha,

Can you detect any ‘decid-ER’ in any of these happenings?

There is no decider in these happenings its automatic and just what's happening. There is a thought that tries to claim the memory or happening as if it happened to someone, but the actual happening has no decider.

How does it FEEL to see that there is no ‘self' and no chooser or controller?
Is anything different?

There is a relaxation for sure, but nothing is different. The 'shift' hasn't taken place.






Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hey Eli,


thank you for your good answers.

All your answers are ‘the right answers’, so to speak.

The 'shift' hasn't taken place.

There are normally 2 reasons that prevent ’SEEING’:


One reason is, your answers are coming from an intellectual understanding. This can easily happen. We are all so used to go to ‘knowing’ and ‘understanding’. But here it will definitely not help you, actually it will prevent SEEING.

LOOKING and SEEING are very simple:

LOOK, do you SEE your computer screen? Do you see a ’self’?

This is what is meant by LOOKING and SEEING. Very simple. That simple.



A second reason could be your expectations or fears.
Fears you don’t mention, but if there are fears somewhere hidden, please let me know so we can address them.

Expectations:

In your intro you shared:

I had a glimpse of the aliveness of everything, it felt like I woke up from a dream. Everything was stunning


an experience of feeling like everyone is myself, that I am the eternal awareness and everything arises within the awareness.

You can not know how the ’shift in perception’ will happen and be. It might be totally different from the two experiences you had.

Seeing that there is no separate entity at all, no ‘me’ or ‘I’ or ’self’ is not a state. It is a shift in seeing, a shift in perception.

For some it is even very subtle, and it can be missed out, if there are expectations of some ’state’. For some it is like being hit by a brick. You will never know before.

Let me ask you:



Which of the 2 possibilities does Feel TRUE to you?


Are there any expectations or is anything missing?


And can you find the one who had a glimpse, who woke up from a dream?

And can you find a ‘myself’?


Please LOOK. Like you have never looked before. LOOK.




Lots of love

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hi Trisha,

Which of the 2 possibilities does Feel TRUE to you?

The one that feels the most true would be the expectations. There's a feeling that this isn't good enough. There's expecting something to happen, there's not expectations of a state. When I "LOOK" its clear there is no 'self', but its not felt in my entire being. There is clarity, but there still feels like something is missing. There could also be intellectual understanding happening as well, but wont the mind try to grasp the experience no matter what? Lastly there is a fear of being homeless, which If I go deeper is a fear of death.

Are there any expectations or is anything missing?

In my experience the mind is always expecting something to happen, but that's just mental chatter. Its difficult to answer because the mind says something is missing, but its clear that nothing is missing. Its so obvious there is no "I" when looked at.

And can you find the one who had a glimpse, who woke up from a dream?

When looked at there was no one who had a glimpse, its just a mental image(memory).

And can you find a ‘myself’?

No there's no 'myself'.






Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hi Eli,


thank you for your honest inquiry and sharing. This is very helpful to your inquiry into the illusion of there being a separate self.

The one that feels the most true would be the expectations.

OK, let’s see:

There's a feeling that this isn't good enough.

'This isn’t good enough' is thought content/story


Can you please check the sensations connected with this thought content/story?

Do these sensations point to a lie or to truth?

You know how to do this, right?

still feels like something is missing

‘something is missing’ is thought content/story


Please check again, body sensations and then what do they point to: a lie or truth?

Lastly there is a fear of being homeless, which If I go deeper is a fear of death.

Very good, that you are noticing the fears and that you looked behind them already. All has to be brought out for truth to be seen.


Fears are body sensations plus a label.

‘Being homeless’ is thought content/story.


Please can you check about the truth or lie of ‘being homeless’?


It is worth though, to look into ‘fear of death’:

can you find something behind it? What is it? How strong is this fear? Can you detect when it is coming up?


I put a link to a video from Ilona, one of the founders of this forum. In this video she helps to look and letting go of fears. It is a Deep Looking Meditation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKX1llYtlKE

but wont the mind try to grasp the experience no matter what?

Really?

What about GREEN?



Do labels really affect the experience?

You answered this one on page 1. Go and look.



Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


Experiences are the 5 senses and arising of thoughts.


Thought content, stories or labels are not experienced. They do not exist.


Experiences and thought content do belong to two totally different and opposite realms, so to say.


This is why all questions, exercises and pointers need to be LOOKED at with Direct or Actual experience.

When something is SEEN for what it is, the mind/thoughts do surrender to this experience.




Love to you and looking forward to your findings

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hey Trisha,



Thank you for reading, I am grateful to have you as my guide.

Can you please check the sensations connected with this thought content/story?

The sensations were checked for.

Do these sensations point to a lie or to truth?

The sensations point to a lie, It was seen that "this isn't good enough" is only mind content. These sensations can be uncomfortable, but its seen that the content connected to the sensation is not real.

Please check again, body sensations and then what do they point to: a lie or truth?

The sensations are pointing to a lie. When Looked at its seen that there is nothing behind the sensation/story, its unexplainable but there's nothing to get or know. It is only the experience and there is absolutely nothing to know.

Please can you check about the truth or lie of ‘being homeless’?

It is a lie, a complete made up story. When its looked at its seen that 'fear' doesn't exist at least as we label it. Fear can arise as a sensation in a dangerous situation, but the story about fear does not exist.

can you find something behind it? What is it? How strong is this fear? Can you detect when it is coming up?

When Looked at there is nothing behind the fear its empty. The fear is a sensation and the content is a label. The fear is not strong its seen that the fear is really just a made up story. I can't detect when its coming up there's just sensations.


Thank you for the video, there was a relaxation after doing the guided meditation.

Do labels really affect the experience?

No labels do not affect the experience. The content of the mind tries to come in and say that something is missing, which is not the actual experience.






Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hi Eli,

Thank you for reading, I am grateful to have you as my guide.

Thank you and my pleasure :-)

The sensations point to a lie, It was seen that "this isn't good enough" is only mind content.

These sensations can be uncomfortable, but its seen that the content connected to the sensation is not real.

Very good noticing.


Lies do bring unpleasant sensations, right. This is how we recognize them.


When you let go of all what is untrue, what remains?

Fear can arise as a sensation in a dangerous situation, but the story about fear does not exist.

Yes, then there is a direct action: running away, not crossing the street, not entering by night a certain street etc
Fear is always in the here/now.


Thought-content about fears are never here/now.


Can you see this?

Thank you for the video, there was a relaxation after doing the guided meditation.

Good!

The content of the mind tries to come in and say that
something is missing, which is not the actual experience.

When an experience is happening, how can ‘anything be missing’, other than as thought content?

Can you see this?

No labels do not affect the experience.

Yes. Labels don’t change the experience. What labels can do though, is how we think about it.


Can you see the difference?


Love to you

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hey Trisha,

When you let go of all what is untrue, what remains?

The only thing that remains is the experience(five 5 senses + thoughts arising).

Can you see this?

Yes there is only what is happening, thought content is just a label/add on to what's happening. Thought content is never in the here and now.

When an experience is happening, how can ‘anything be missing’, other than as thought content?

You're right nothing can be missing other than as thought content. The experience is happening, there isn't anything missing.

Can you see this?

Yes It is seen that there isn't anything missing in what's happening.

Can you see the difference?

Yes I see the difference, the experience is what it is no matter what the labels are. The thought content for example would label an experience good or bad. The label doesn't change the happening, its just an opinion or a perspective on the happening.


Ok wow when memories are looked at, the thought content about them doesn't change anything. Its all just happening, there's nothing to regret. There was never a "me" doing these actions.





Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hi Eli,

The only thing that remains is the experience(five 5 senses + thoughts arising).

YES!

there is only what is happening,
Its all just happening,

Yes, life is just happening. Life just IS.

Life is happening as a tree. Life is happening as Eli.

Can you SEE this?
How does it FEEL to SEE this?

There was never a "me" doing these actions.

YES.


So what about the illusion of a 'separate self’? Is it seen through?
Has there been a shift in your awareness. Please describe this.


Eli, is seeking still going on?


Is anything not clear? Is there anything that wants to be LOOKED into further?




Love to you

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hey Trisha,

Can you SEE this?

Yes this is seen.

How does it FEEL to SEE this?

There is no specific feeling, but there is a relaxation.

So what about the illusion of a 'separate self’? Is it seen through?

There is clarity that a sperate self does not exist. I can't say its seen through because there hasn't been any shift, unless its very subtle and its not noticed. It must be obvious when the shift occurs?

Eli, is seeking still going on?

Seeking is still going, there hasn't been any shift or anything. Its clear that there is only what's happening, but no shift has taken place.

Is anything not clear? Is there anything that wants to be LOOKED into further?

There is still seeking energy here. The clarity that is here could be from an intellectual understanding. So there still must be something to be looked into.




Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hi Eli,

unless its very subtle and its not noticed

The shift into SEEING can be subtle, also very subtle, but it should be noticed.

What is noticed, because it is different, is the SEEING.

On the LU Forum you find, under BOOKS, the Gateless Gatecrashers. Please read some of the dialogs and see if you can sense when the shift is happening.

It must be obvious when the shift occurs?

Mmh, yes, because SEEING is suddenly happening.

And I really mean it: It is SEEING. Nothing else. It is SEEING.

It is easy, totally easy, once you see, because it is always already so. And only LOOKING can help.

It sounds funny, but this is, how it is. LOOKING and SEEING.


Can you see your computer screen? LOOK.

Can you see a ’separate self’? LOOK.

The clarity that is here could be from an intellectual understanding.

Yes, that’s possible.

There is still seeking energy here.

OK, let me ask you:

Is there a seeker to be found who is doing seeking?

Is seeking more than a thought, a story?

How does this ’seeking energy’ feel like?

Does it point to a lie or to truth?

So there still must be something to be looked into.

Mmh, yes, may be.

Eli, let’s see how today’s questions go.

There are a lot of exercises I can give you.

But all can work only when all you are doing is LOOKING.

Give all your energy into LOOKING.
For the questions I gave you today, while answering them through LOOKING, you will notice thoughts arising, do not go into them, ‘push’ them away, with ALL your force and give everything! Put everything into LOOKING. All your force :-)
No understanding please.



Looking forward to your findings

lots of love

Trisha

[Eli24]

Hi Trisha,




I read some of the dialogues from the book and the shift seems to be happening when they look behind the label of "I", there is simply nothing behind it. Here when the "I" is looked for nothing can be found, there is emptiness and spaciousness. There's literally nothing there accept thoughts arising, there is a huge relaxation when its looked at. I try my best to explain things, but its difficult because there is literally nothing to explain. Thoughts will arise saying this cant be it, but its clear its just a made up story.

Can you see your computer screen? LOOK.

No there is no computer screen.

Can you see a ’separate self’? LOOK.

No there is no 'separate self'.

Is there a seeker to be found who is doing seeking?

There is no seeker, its a story.

Is seeking more than a thought, a story?

That's all seeking is a thought/story.

How does this ’seeking energy’ feel like?

There is no seeking energy, I guess there were expectations, so there was an assumption that there still must be seeking energy left. When the seeking energy is looked for nothing is found.

Does it point to a lie or to truth?

There is no seeking energy that is found.




I said this above, but when these things are looked for nothing is found. I really tried my best not to go into any thoughts while looking. Its crazy because there is no answer, ITS JUST EMPTINESS. Whenever I look its disappointing because behind it all there's simply just nothing. I keep saying nothing, buts that the word I'm using I guess to describe this. I don't know if any shift happened or whatever because what shift is there really? if there is nothing and its only the experience, what shift could take place?


There's a thought arising asking why people describe the beauty of everything, and how they see everything for what it truly is. Here that is not seen, its still the same view? Is there something missing? The simplicity is actually disappointing, I searched to find that there is nothing to search for. Please let me know your thoughts on this.






Much Love, Eli.

[TeeKa112]

Hey Eli,

Here when the "I" is looked for nothing can be found, there is emptiness and spaciousness

Yes, Eli, thats a good way to put it. Very nice.

Thoughts will arise saying this cant be it,

Thoughts will do this, for some time. They will, though, give up after some time also, kind of surrender to the truth that is experienced.

There is no seeker,

Yes, no seeker can be found.

its a story.

Exactly, thought content/story.

But also an explanation. We don’t really want explanations here. We better let them out and let’s stay only with experiences :-)

There is no seeking energy, I guess there were expectations,

Good that you notice.
Each expectation, as small or hidden it is, will prevent SEEING.

You are mentioning some of the expectations/thought-contents/stories, that are arising and being believed:

'the beauty of everything,'
'how they see everything for what it truly is.’

And then this happens:

The simplicity is actually disappointing

I searched to find that there is nothing to search for.

Yes, this is a good way to put this one.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Eli, you are doing good.

It is very helpful that the noticing of your believing in expectations is coming up and clearly seen.
In this sense, disappointment is a good pointer you are noticing yourself.
This is courageous and absolutely needed.

From my own experience when going through this process here at LU I can share, that for me, seeing came slowly, it was subtle, over some days. It happened after all expectations of bliss, beauty and eternal beatitude had been looked through as bestseller stories….

Then I could SEE the truth of the utterly simplicity.

How can it not be simple, since it never has been anything different?


My guide shared with me at the time, that for her, it was totally different, very impactful, like being hit by a brick wall and she laughed for 3 days.

I didn’t laugh at all. I smiled a lot though. Kind of subtle.

It is different for everybody, this is my experience. And it is different from what one could ever imagine. Not more or less beautiful, just different.



Read this text several times. Give yourself time. Let it sink in.

Relax. Relaxation is needed for SEEING to happen fully.



If you feel like, go for a walk, better nature that city…… if possible…..

Look around and notice how everything is given and all is happening:

Sky and clouds. All colours are given. Shapes are given. Sounds are happening. Sensations are happening. Wind, the cold. Ice and snow. All is given. Can ‘Eli’ choose and not see what is given? What is already happening? Change the weather or temperature? Turn white into green?


Is there anything that is not given?

Anything that is not happening effortlessly and would need your doing?

Looking at nature, would there be expectations of anything being differnt, like clouds being brown or rain feeling dry?

Is there anything that is not spontaneously arising?

Is Eli doing anything in life?

Or is Eli also given?






You are doing good.

RELAX.


Let me know how it goes.


Love to you


Trisha

[Eli24]

Hi Trisha,



I couldn't get out for a walk yesterday because of a big snowstorm, but I was outside for a bit shoveling and looking out of my window at the tress/sky/snow etc.

Is there anything that is not given?

Everything is what it is, there is nothing that can be changed.

Anything that is not happening effortlessly and would need your doing?

Nothing would need my doing, its all happening effortlessly.

Looking at nature, would there be expectations of anything being differnt, like clouds being brown or rain feeling dry?

There would be no expectations for nature being different, Nature is how it is without anything needing something to change.

Is there anything that is not spontaneously arising?

Everything is spontaneously arising, there isn't any predictability.

Is Eli doing anything in life?

No Eli is a character, a made up a story. Eli is like nature its just happening.

Or is Eli also given?

Eli is given, perfect how he is.





The looking is going well, there is relaxation and moments of 'its so obvious' and some laughter. Also thoughts are not being believed as much. Having you to talk to is the only thing keeping me going, doing this alone would be impossible so thank you.





Much Love, Eli.