This is huge.I'll start accepting things as they are right now."
I've always tried to accept things as they are now, even long before I heard Nonduality teachers say things like "All there is is this moment" but I would say that the ratio of things I CAN accept over the things that Ego can NOT accept is about the same as ever. So the 'turning point' you speak of is rather theoretical. For example, the other day I got sick. And like always, there were plenty of thoughts like "This is unfair! This is wrong! Why must this happen to me?" And I told myself "just accept it" and genuinely tried to, but there really wasn't any acceptance until it passed.I'll start accepting things as they are right now."
This is huge.
It's a turning point.
..and remember that when an intention arises, that even if something else arises that doesn't seem to fit with the intention, that it (the arising) needs to be accepted too. (then remember the original intention) ..and smile.
Have you tried to accept that you have no control over what arises? (there's an oxymoron there - can you see it?)I've always tried to accept things as they are now,
Exactly. Acceptance can't be done. No amount of willpower will achieve this. Trying to do anything will only strengthen it. This is why SEEING that you are lost in it is so valuable. As soon as you see this it breaks the spell.I told myself "just accept it" and genuinely tried to, but there really wasn't any acceptance
OK, I'll try it. Or, rather, because there's no 'I' that can try it, I will notice when it happens of its own accord.Exactly. Acceptance can't be done. No amount of willpower will achieve this. Trying to do anything will only strengthen it. This is why SEEING that you are lost in it is so valuable. As soon as you see this it breaks the spell.
Now, you can't willpower the seeing either, but you can retrain your brain to do it.
The quickest way to do this is to celebrate the seeing when it happens. It doesn't matter how long after the event that the seeing happens (get this; it happens. It's not done, it happens) that celebration (a smile, better still lol) is positive reinforcement for the next seeing. They get easier and come quicker.
The more energy that you put into this, the better the result. That energy might be a happening from an intention that arises from reading these words. No doings, just happenings.
Excellent.OK, I'll try it. Or, rather, because there's no 'I' that can try it, I will notice when it happens of its own accord.
It is accurate to say that when you attempt to control things that sometimes you do and sometimes you don't?It's clear that I don't have as MUCH control as I once thought, but I'm certainly not at a point where I'd claim that there is NO control.
Why should it be that way? It seems entirely possible to me that one could have control at some times and not others.
Both are true. A sound does come from somewhere. You could set up all sorts of scientific equipment like microphones to prove that it does. But, as you said, the EXPERIENCE of the sound happens in the brain. Both are necessary. If there were no outside sound, there would be no experience in the brain. If you want to claim that all experience happens in the brain and there was no outside sound, then how do you explain that the microphone and tape recorder also show evidence of the sound?i certainly wouldn't dispute that it often seems as if you have control, but isn't this an illusion, just like it seems that a sound comes from somewhere away from you, when we know that the experience of a sound happens in your brain?
Hmm, but you can't control when you do or when you don't. You always attempt to have control but sometimes it fails. How can you call this control?Why should it be that way? It seems entirely possible to me that one could have control at some times and not others.
No, there is vibrating air. It takes a mechanism to convert that into sound.A sound does come from somewhere. You could set up all sorts of scientific equipment like microphones to prove that it does.
That's a good question. With people who don't succeed much you might be able to say they have little control.Hmm, but you can't control when you do or when you don't. You always attempt to have control but sometimes it fails. How can you call this control?
I WANT to see that your description is accurate, but it's not what I experience. Most of the things I intend to happen do happen. When I don't achieve something I intended, I claim it's because I'm lazy. Is laziness an external force? No.Now if you look at experience, you will find that you have intent and those times when it happening aligns with that intent, the mind comes along and says it was control. Those times when intent doesn't work out, mind (most likely) blames an external force. Watch your experiences for a day and see if this is accurate.
I have no problem with your description. I think any scientist would agree. But it does nothing to indicate that the Self doesn't exist (isn't that what we are trying to prove?)No, there is vibrating air. It takes a mechanism to convert that into sound.
In the case of a person, the vibrations interact with the ear which generates a nerve impulse which travels to the brain. Thee is it processed and interpreted as sound. In the case of the microphone the vibrations are fed into an electronic system which converts them into signals that drive speakers before a sound is generated.
Oh, and the sound from speakers is synthetic. It is not the same as what the brain perceives.
My point is that this is so for all of the senses. The actuality of whatever stimulates them isn't what we experience. We experience our interpretation of that. ..and for each of us, it is unique.
This is important so let's stay with it until you are in happy agreement.
No, no, not for a minute. Saying "just happened" says something different. Happenings happen because all of the conditions necessary for them to happen are present and aligned. There is no "just" involved. Intention, skill, opportunity, are some of the conditions. There are countless others. Do you think that Paypal could have happened before the internet? It was certainly one of the necessary conditions. Where does control fit into that?Could you say that events just happened,
Hmm, maybe you're right. It might take a certain obsessive focus to achieve some things and it's likely that those who experience non-duality aren't motivated in this way. i don't know.MAYBE IT'S BETTER IF SOME PEOPLE DON'T SEE NON-DUALITY, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GET THINGS DONE.
Ha, if you remove the judgment from laziness, then you will find a whole lot of conditions. Just as if you remove the judgment from success you will find many conditions. (and none of them are control)When I don't achieve something I intended, I claim it's because I'm lazy. Is laziness an external force? No.
I think what you mean by 'intention' is what I mean by 'control'. Elon Musk and Peter Thiel 'intended' to create Paypal. Yes, there were a lot of necessary conditions that had to be met also. But of the 7 billion people on earth at the time, they were the only two that created this platform.No, no, not for a minute. Saying "just happened" says something different. Happenings happen because all of the conditions necessary for them to happen are present and aligned. There is no "just" involved. Intention, skill, opportunity, are some of the conditions. There are countless others. Do you think that Paypal could have happened before the internet? It was certainly one of the necessary conditions. Where does control fit into that?
It does seem that way to me. For years Nonduality and Environmentalism have been two of my passions. When I ask spiritual teachers like Tony Parsons and Jim Newman, who have lost their sense of a personal self, what they think should be done about Climate Change, they say something like "The world doesn't exist". Or, even more confusingly, Jim Newman said in August in response to such a question "The world both does and doesn't exist." Which doesn't make sense to us unenlightened folk. If pressed further, they might say "Action against Climate Change will happen or it won't happen, but there isn't a personal self who controls it." Certainly it doesn't look like THEY are going to act on environmental issues.Hmm, maybe you're right. It might take a certain obsessive focus to achieve some things and it's likely that those who experience non-duality aren't motivated in this way. i don't know.
OK, I had an intention to fill out some annoying papers I had to send to the County Health Insurance Dept, which I had put off because it is such an irritating task. So this morning I FORCED myself to do it (which is odd, I admit, because it implies that there is one 'me' who doesn't want to do something, and another which wants to). So I finally did it, and I was proud of myself. Was there a condition that was outside my personal influence that could have changed things? Yes, if there were a power outage, like the one we had the other day, then I couldn't have used my printer.Do this exercise; When you have an intention and it happens the way you intend, notice the conditions that made it possible. Then consider at least one of those conditions that was outside your personal influence and ask yourself if that was missing or different, could that happening have occurred the way that it did?
Yes, just as Griselda is the only person that created what she experiences. Well her and the myriad of other necessary conditions. They may not have the import that Paypal has, but they are unique to her.But of the 7 billion people on earth at the time, they were the only two that created this platform.
Hmm, I can't speak for them, but I had this very conversation with a (non seeking) friend recently. (short story is) I said that he has a brilliant and peaceful life except for his obsession with what is wrong with the world. He said that somebody has to speak up or nothing will change.Certainly it doesn't look like THEY are going to act on environmental issues.
..or the printer could have been out of ink (or toner) or you may have needed to do something more important. or the intention to do it no matter what, didn't occur. etc. etc.Was there a condition that was outside my personal influence that could have changed things? Yes, if there were a power outage, like the one we had the other day, then I couldn't have used my printer.
It could be that for many the desire to act is really to satisfy an image of ourselves, but the Planet doesn't care about the psychology of human beings. And I agree with you that 'speaking up' like what your friend does doesn't help anything. We don't need speech, we need action. Greta Thunberg has a role in alarming people, but since she's only 18 she's not a scientist that has practical solutions. But that's no different than saying the person who yells 'Fire!' might be a child, and not someone capable of putting out a fire.Hmm, I can't speak for them, but I had this very conversation with a (non seeking) friend recently. (short story is) I said that he has a brilliant and peaceful life except for his obsession with what is wrong with the world. He said that somebody has to speak up or nothing will change.
..but for all of his speaking up the only change he creates is people thinking that he is a weirdo. Nothing actually changes in the world at large. You'd think that an individual like Greta Thunburg might change the world on climate change, but I hear from many people very disparaging remarks about her. So she creates much opposition to what she intends.
i don't have an answer to this. i do what I can on a personal level and have no idea how much it contributes.
is the desire to act really to satisfy an image we have of ourselves?
It does seem so in that example. A more difficult example for me is something where it is unmistakable that the stamp of a particular personality was necessary to get something done. Take Michelangelo. He took 4 years, lying on his back on some scaffolding, to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. And the result is an amazing painting which could only have been created by one brilliant guy. Now, could you say that circumstances conspired in 1503 to bring about conditions in which such a painting had to occur, and no 'self' was necessary? I suppose you could, but for me it's more 'truthful' to say that a particular SELF, in this case Michelangelo, was necessary to make this happen. And I wouldn't say that it was only after a successful conclusion that he could claim control...or the printer could have been out of ink (or toner) or you may have needed to do something more important. or the intention to do it no matter what, didn't occur. etc. etc.
It was only after a successful conclusion that you could claim control.
Yes, I agree that this might be the case for many.It could be that for many the desire to act is really to satisfy an image of ourselves,
Again, I agree. To give meaning or purpose to how the Planet works is human created concept. To say that the Planet works to heal itself from the injury caused by people, is concept. Not actual.the Planet doesn't care about the psychology of human beings
Speech from some might inspire action in others. (in which case speaking was action) What action can you or I take that will make a difference?We don't need speech, we need action.
Oh certainly. The skills or propensity of an individual may bring necessary conditions, but there will always be many others required that originate outside that individuals control (influence)the stamp of a particular personality was necessary to get something done.
Circumstances don't conspire, but I do get what you are saying, so I say yes. Who commissioned the painting? What inspired him to want it done? Who created the canvas (ceiling)could you say that circumstances conspired
Do you think that there were many brush strokes that were redone?And I wouldn't say that it was only after a successful conclusion that he could claim control.
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