Free to live fully

[Benedikte]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We are all one. I am not a person. Life lives me as this person called “my name”. I am not in charge of anything. Life is Living Life.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have talked with Ilona very short once and it was very impactful. I Saw a glimpse of Thruth. And in the days after I Saw that I was nobody. That nothing is up to me and it was such a freeing Way to live Life. But I struggle a little with how to live everyday Life as a non person. Have I seen enough? Is it just my mind that wants to mess the beautiful seing up?!

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to see through many of my builded up beliefs about who I thought I was as a person. Even though I had seen a glimpse of the no-self - it feels like I still have to see through some of the sticky ones. Espessially around work issues.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have Been seeking for 5 years. The three principles and Amy Johnsons School has Been very helpful in the search. The short talk with Ilona and watching her videos on YouTube have brought a lot of peace and hope for me to end the search completely.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[vinceschubert]

Hi Benedikte, vince here. i will accompany you through this final 'clean up' phase.
Tell me what has changed in the month since you have been waiting at the gate?

with love

vince

[Benedikte]

Just testing if this works …

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince. Thank you for being my guide. I am so grateful for that. I live in Denmark. English is my second language. The last month has Been complicated - with me being back in searching, feeling insecure, anxious and with a lot of thinking. Espessially around work. Work has Been a Big trigger for me the last couple of years. From the 1.1.22 I am out of this job and I am free to another adventure. It is fine and the right thing to happen but I have thought about it A LOT and tried to calm myself Down with me being back in the search. And that doesn’t help at all. I have had a sense the Hole time of me being lived but I am back feeling as this person who somehow feel responsible for the thoughts and feelings arising. I look forward to this journey with you - feeling excited and nervous at the same time. With Love from Benedicte

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince. Thank you for being my guide. I am so grateful for that. I live in Denmark. English is my second language. The last month has Been complicated - with me being back in searching, feeling insecure, anxious and with a lot of thinking. Espessially around work. Work has Been a Big trigger for me the last couple of years. From the 1.1.22 I am out of this job and I am free to another adventure. It is fine and the right thing to happen but I have thought about it A LOT and tried to calm myself Down with me being back in the search. And that doesn’t help at all. I have had a sense the Hole time of me being lived but I am back feeling as this person who somehow feel responsible for the thoughts and feelings arising. I look forward to this journey with you - feeling excited and nervous at the same time. With Love from Benedikte

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Benedicte, Here is a link that explains the quote function; viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Thank you for being my guide. I am so grateful for that.

No worries. Experience suggests that we will both benefit from this.

English is my second language.

That's ok. Even for native English speakers language is often inadequate with this stuff. We will get better at communicating with experience.

with me being back in searching,

Tell me about this.

Work has Been a Big trigger for me the last couple of years.

What has it triggered?

and tried to calm myself Down

Ha, yes. It is somewhat paradoxical to put effort into being calm.

I am back feeling as this person who somehow feel responsible for the thoughts and feelings arising.

You say that you are feeling this. Is it what your mind says or is it what your body feels? ..or is it mind first followed by body?

I look forward to this journey with you - feeling excited and nervous at the same time.

Yes, discovery is exciting. No need to feel nervous. There will be no judgment happening.

with love

vince

[Benedikte]

Hi Vince. So nice to hear from you. I will try the quote thing.

Tell me about this./quote]

It is something about me spending a lot of time on the Internet searching for answers - thinking there must be something wrong with me for feeling how I do.

What has it triggered?

5-6 years ago I was under a lot of stress at work and I had a mental break down. Since then I have been scared of feeling stress and overwhelm again. Sometimes I get so scared that I make my world smaller than I could (saying no to new jobs, feeling insecure and so on).

You say that you are feeling this. Is it what your mind says or is it what your body feels? ..or is it mind first followed by body?

First it is what my mind says. And when I have listened to the mind for a while, I can feel it in the body. Feeling tense in my throat and stomach.

I hope this answered your question. I am not sure if I am using the quote thing correctly. I have watched the video and try to follow it.
With love from Benedikte

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince. One more thing. I was so excited about replying to you that I acciddently used my real name. I would like to be called Benedikte - I try to remember it myself. If my real name somehow Can be deleted from the Forum, I would be very grateful.
With Love from Benedikte

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Benedickte,

One more thing. I

i am unable to do it myself, but have requested Admin do it. Now waiting...

I will try the quote thing.

Hmm, you didn't quite get it right, but what you did works ok.
You just need to drag the cursor over the question then hit the quotes button. Then click and type your response after that.

spending a lot of time on the Internet searching for answers - thinking there must be something wrong with me for feeling how I do.

Ok. This is a big one. Whatever you are thinking. Whatever you are feeling, by the time that you become aware of it, it's done. It happened. It can't be undone.
Wishing it was different only adds to the unpleasantness.
i call it THIS.
It is what life is currently offering. Presenting.
Having said this, i do know how it was for me and imagine that it is something like that for you.
Now, we are on a steep learning curve with our communicating here, and words will start to be taken differently.
In this case, i want to differentiate between "something wrong with me" and the unpleasant sensations that triggered that phrase.
From the perspective of 'awake', the concepts of right or wrong are unproductive. Well, not only unproductive but a trigger for unpleasant emotions.

Since then I have been scared of feeling stressed and overwhelmed again.

Can you see the story behind this fear? What might happen?

First it is what my mind says. And when I have listened to the mind for a while, I can feel it in the body. Feeling tense in my throat and stomach.

Can you see the connection between what the mind says and the bodily sensations that follow?

I hope this answered your question.

Yes it did. Do feel free to include what happens as you consider the questions too.

with love

vince

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince.
Thank you for your reply.
I hope I will make the quote thing correct this time.

From the perspective of 'awake', the concepts of right or wrong are unproductive. Well, not only unproductive but a trigger for unpleasant emotions.

I can sense something really helpful in here. I can't change how I feel. I feel what I feel when I feel it. Because it is already here. And I can see how the narrator in my mind always labels good and bad and when I listen to this narrator I struggle. I really want to see SEE that there is not a good or bad feeling. It just is. One energy.

Since then I have been scared of feeling stressed and overwhelmed again.
Can you see the story behind this fear? What might happen?

Yes I can see the story behind the fear. The story is about a me that can't work because of too much resistance and fear. And what might happen? I don't know. Worst case is something around the story being true...

Can you see the connection between what the mind says and the bodily sensations that follow?

Yes. Thoughts creates feelings. Feelings are felt in the body. I never feel the circumstances. I feel the thoughts that arises in the moment. But the thoughts can still look sooo scary.

With love from Benedikte

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Benedikte,

I hope I will make the quote thing correct this time.

Perfectly done.

when I listen to this narrator I struggle.

Do you ever not believe what the narrator says?
When you say that you struggle, is that a conflict between two opposing ideas?

I really want to see SEE that there is not a good or bad feeling.

Oh, there certainly is pleasant and unpleasant feelings. ..and if we use language loosely then we might label the unpleasant feelings bad.

I can see the story behind the fear

Do you think that the story that triggers the fear is to protect you from something?

The story is about a me that can't work because of too much resistance and fear.

Hmm, this is a bit circular. You fear that you can't work because of the fear? Can you tease this out for me, please?

But the thoughts can still look sooo scary.

When you watch a movie that you know is fiction, you suspend disbelief to allow a connection with the plot and the characters in it. Is there an element of this with those scary thought stories?

with love

vince

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince. Good evening. And thank you for the questions. I am not sure were we are going with the questions but I try to trust the proces.

Do you ever not believe what the narrator says?
When you say that you struggle, is that a conflict between two opposing ideas?

Sometimes I don't believe the narrator. I guess it actually happens quite often. For example I have planned a run, and the narrator in the head says "You can´t do that" "You are too tired". And then I go for the run anyways. Yes when there is a conflict between to opposing ideas I struggle a lot. I hope that I one day can see that I am not the chooser of things. That I am not in charge. OMG that would means such a relief. Right now I think I am the manager in a lot of things: being a mum to two teenagers, a wife, a someone who needs to find a new job and so on.

Do you think that the story that triggers the fear is to protect you from something?

I guess the story tries to protect me from getting hurt and protect me from loosing control.

"The story is about a me that can't work because of too much resistance and fear."
Hmm, this is a bit circular. You fear that you can't work because of the fear? Can you tease this out for me, please?

I guess it is a me that fears fear. And I can see that it is circular. Like the dog chasing its tail. I am never going to win this game. But then what?!

When you watch a movie that you know is fiction, you suspend disbelief to allow a connection with the plot and the characters in it. Is there an element of this with those scary thought stories?

When I am really caught up in thinking, like right now, it is more difficult to see the stories as fiction. But I know in my heart that they are fiction. For example today the story that has been on my mind most of the day is something about me never finding a new job that I will like and a story about me not being able or are allowed to relax until I do. I know deep inside that it is fiction but I still listen so much to the mind-stuff.

With love from Benedikte.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Benedikte,

I am not sure were we are going with the question

Me neither. i don't have a plan or a curriculum. Questions arise triggered by what you post.

I try to trust the proces.

I do trust what happens.

Sometimes I don't believe the narrator. I guess it actually happens quite often. For example, I have planned a run, and the narrator in the head says "You can´t do that" "You are too tired". And then I go for the run anyways.

Ha yes. In this vein, when our intentions do get successfully acted on, it reinforces the illusion of control, but when they don't we ignore them. Not always of course, but often. Is this accurate for you?

Yes, when there is a conflict between two opposing ideas I struggle a lot.

Do you notice the details of that struggle?
What is an example of the nature of the ideas that conflict?

I hope that I one day can see that I am not the chooser of things.

For you to even say this, you must have an idea of what actually happens when the illusion of choosing occurs?

OMG that would means such a relief.

Oh, you are right about this.
Where do you think ideas come from? Do you know what your next thought will be?

Right now I think I am the manager in a lot of things:

I get what you are saying. That there are a lot of decision happening. A lot of acting on those decisions. ..and your experience in the role of mother, wife, worker are part of which decisions arise. Do you see that there are many other conditions involved in their arising?

I guess the story tries to protect me from getting hurt and protect me from loosing control.

It's productive that you see that the story has a purpose.

I guess it is a me that fears fear.

That's a logical conclusion. If we come back to experiencing, then there is a fear response to the fear generated by a story. The organism feels fear. ..and when the organism feels fear, there is just fear. Anything else is a story about it. Can you grok this?

I know deep inside that it is fiction but I still listen so much to the mind-stuff.

Ok, what is the benefit of this?

with love

vince

[Benedikte]

Dear Vince. Thanks for your questions. I am feeling so so stressed at the moment and I am wondering if this gate work is too much. Yesterday the site didn't work. I got an e-mail that you responded but I couldn't get in and it made me feeling so stressed and overwhelmed. I tjecked the site a numerous of times until I gave up.

I am so happy that you trust the process. Maybe you can see a little about how the process usually goes. I need some hope. Right now I feel very hopeless. Can I do anything to relax a little around this? Can I do anything to relax my mind a little? And is it okay to not answer the questions everyday?

Do you notice the details of that struggle?
What is an example of the nature of the ideas that conflict?

Thank you for this question. For example right now I am conflicted about this proces that I have started in here. Is it too hard? Am I going insane? When will I find some relief from my thoughts? And on the other Hand the thoughts are about me finding freedom on the other side. I want to do it. I don't want to do it. I fear it. I just want some peace in my mind...I have so so much noise in my head at the moment.

I hope that I one day can see that I am not the chooser of things.
For you to even say this, you must have an idea of what actually happens when the illusion of choosing occurs?

Yes I am not the chooser of things - but the mind thinks that it is. "Yes I did it" it says.

Where do you think ideas come from? Do you know what your next thought will be?

I love this question. I don't know where ideas are coming from but it seems to be somewhere behind the thinking. I don't know what my next thought will be. If I knew I would choose a more light one than the ones that are coming now. But I still feel very guilty for the thoughts that show up and for my way on acting on them.

I get what you are saying. That there are a lot of decision happening. A lot of acting on those decisions. ..and your experience in the role of mother, wife, worker are part of which decisions arise. Do you see that there are many other conditions involved in their arising?

Yes I can see that there are many conditions involved. I am not alone in this. I do this because this happened and so on. I say this because a mother person said that and so on.

The organism feels fear. ..and when the organism feels fear, there is just fear. Anything else is a story about it. Can you grok this?

Yes I can sense this. But I stil get pulled into the story and try to get out... and there is no out and that is why it feels so hopeless. I am fearing a feeling that I am already feeling.

I know deep inside that it is fiction but I still listen so much to the mind-stuff.
Ok, what is the benefit of this?

None. Cero. It is a habit I guess.

I hope this answered some of your questions. Have a very nice day dear Vince. With love from Benedikte

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Benedikte.

Yesterday the site didn't work.

Ha yes. Last night it bummed out on me and I lost an hour's work (responding to you) so I went to bed and here I am now (24 hours later) and pleased to say that there was no evidence of frustration. Just what life does sometimes.
When this (occasionally) happens (losing what I wrote), I don't attempt to remember how I responded. i take it as an opportunity to see everything freshly.

I am feeling so so stressed at the moment and I am wondering if this gate work is too much.

The old saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" has some validity. i really hope that you can handle it.
It comes to mind that I should treat you more gently, but it also comes to mind that I don't know how to do that. ..we will see as we go along.

I got an e-mail that you responded but I couldn't get in

Yes, the site has been playing up for a while now. Apparently, some bots are using it to collect text (or something) Admin is working on fixing it. (I hope that they succeed soon)

I tjecked the site a numerous of times until I gave up.

Just do what I do and leave it until the next convenient time.

I am so happy that you trust the process.

Experience with lots of people over 10 years gives me trust that the only way you will fail is if you give up.

Can I do anything to relax a little around this? Can I do anything to relax my mind a little?

Yes, definitely. You can use the stress to practice accepting what life offers. ..and by accepting, I don't mean in a resignation way, but in a welcoming, inviting way. By the time you become aware of anything, it is already in the past. It's finished. There is no way to change it and wishing it was different only adds to the stress.

is it okay to not answer the questions every day?

Yes, that's fine. As long as you keep the momentum going, I don't mind if you only respond every couple of days.
By keeping the momentum going, I mean that you could journal on the days that you aren't responding to my posts. ..or meditate on an aspect of what we have been discussing.

Am I going insane?

I have seen no indication of insanity at all.

I have so so much noise in my head at the moment.

Ah, great segue here. Here’s a story about conditioning (habit) and how to change it.
In the brain, the neuronal pathways (created by synaptic connections) that are used repeatedly are enhanced. They are made stronger and more efficient by frequent use.
When we become aware that they are no longer useful, there are two ways that they can be decommissioned.
They can be pruned or they can atrophy from lack of use.
Neither of these seems to be able to be consciously controlled, but we can indirectly affect change.
Firstly, observe an intent to change.
Secondly, when awareness of that undesirable happening occurs - laugh. Anything from a loud guffaw to a smile, or even a mental chuckle. This thwarts the completion of the old behavior and robs it of the satisfaction factor. It also floods the body with feel-good hormones.
& thirdly, imagine the new neuronal pathway being established that replaces the undesirable one.
On the second point.. the awareness of the habitual response. You will come to recognize triggers. Usually, some intense emotion will arise in response to a situation.
In a fairly short time, you will come to recognize that a trigger has happened but the response to it is short-circuited by the awareness of it. It simply won't eventuate and you will see the new response (a chuckle) happen instead.

I am not the chooser of things - but the mind thinks that it is. "Yes I did it" it says.

The mind doesn't think. It is thoughts arising. Usually of a habitual nature.
We also habitually believe most of our thoughts. This is where our suffering originates.
The mind is by nature a story creator. The content of those stories is conditioned. We have been taught, but now it's time to learn a better way of doing this.

I don't know where ideas are coming from

Exactly. i like to say that what life offers (which includes the thoughts that arise) comes from a big mystery. They (the offerings) visit for a moment then return to that mystery. ..but remember that by the time we become aware of what it is, it's already gone back.

I stil get pulled into the story and try to get out...

That "trying to get out" is the wishing it was different that I mentioned above. It only makes matters worse. Remember it is the recognition that it happened or is happening that is the important bit. Not the content of the story or the fact that we got sucked in.

with much love and compassion

vince