Letting go

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

I suggest you stick strictly to looking for "I" or "me." I don't know why you're looking at thought at all. Which instruction suggested that?

there's only an 'I' in the moments when direct experience appears to awareness,

Oh? Exactly where?

Does this "I" appear as Color or Image?

As a Sound?

As a Sensation?

A Smell?

A Taste?

A Thought Arising?

Those are your only choices for Direct or Actual Experience.


Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,
Thanks for your reply. And sorry for missing a day.

I don't know why you're looking at thought at all. Which instruction suggested that?

It was in the 'Where is I?' Transcript.
'... And now I’m going to ask you some odd questions, or might sound like odd questions. If the room that you’re in were your mind, your mind filled this space that is the room, where is that thought? Like if you had to reach out and grab that thought, where would you reach out and grab?
....
Now here’s the Big Question, and this is the one to sit with, and sort of look for the answer by a combination of resting and looking. You found the location of thoughts in the past. You found the location of thoughts in the future. What’s the location of this “I” thought?
Where am “I”? Where is “I”?

there's only an 'I' in the moments when direct experience appears to awareness,
Oh? Exactly where?

Ha ha! Yeah. Sorry, I meant there's only an illusion of 'I' when there is direct experience. But actually, I think it's strongest when the focus is on thought content.

Does this "I" appear as Color or Image?

No

As a Sound?

No

As a Sensation?

No

A Smell?

No

A Taste?

No

A Thought Arising?

No

Those are your only choices for Direct or Actual Experience.

I think it exists only as emotions and thought content?
With love and thanks :-) xxxx

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

I see. Finding a thought in space was just practice.

Notice;:

and this is the one to sit with, and sort of look for the answer by a combination of resting and looking. You found the location of thoughts in the past. You found the location of thoughts in the future. What’s the location of this “I” thought?

Where am “I”? Where is “I”?

I think it's strongest when the focus is on thought content.

I think it exists only as emotions and thought content

Yes, "I" is only thought content, a made-up story.

Emotions are Sensation plus Thought Arising.


How does it Feel to See there's no "self" in any way. that it is a made up story?

Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy.
Many thanks again for your great kindness and patience.
I will look again tomorrow xxx

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy.

How does it Feel to See there's no "self" in any way. that it is a made up story?

I still don't really 'see' it, so there is no feeling there. I keep looking, but no matter how long I spend, I'm still just coming to logical conclusions.
Though I look for an 'I' and don't find anything I can point to, the appearance of a continuity of awareness and that which appears to awareness still seems like a 'me'. Though I can point to all the parts and notice 'awareness isn't an 'I', sensation isn't an 'I', thoughts aren't an 'I',' etc, the combination of them still appears to comprise an 'I.' It still feels like me 'in here' 'looking out'.
I sat for hours on this again today, and just seem to go round in circles with it.
Lots of love, Steph xxx

[Anastacia42]

Okay, here's a suggestion:

You know you can't see it, can't find it, so stop & relax next time. Don't so try hard.

Let SEEING come to you.

See if that's better.

We don't control it. It happens when it does. It may take weeks or months. Be patient, if you can.

Are you using ButtChair? Where is "I?"

Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy.
Thank you for your replies and directions.

You know you can't see it, can't find it, so stop & relax next time. Don't try so hard.

Thank you. I have been trying to do this the last couple of days.

Let SEEING come to you. See if that's better.

And trying to relax into this.

We don't control it. It happens when it does. It may take weeks or months. Be patient, if you can.

Thank you. I have been feeling impatient about this, and am trying to relax about it.

Are you using ButtChair?

I have been using Buttchair again. There is no clear boundary between my butt and the chair, but the sensation doesn't seem to extend far into where the visual image of the chair appears.

Where is "I?"

I've also still been looking for where the appearance of 'I' is in different situations. I was trying to locate it while in the dentist's chair today. Noticing that there is only awareness, sensations, images, sounds, smells, tastes, thoughts arising. I get really tense and anxious in that situation, so it was interesting to really watch what was actually appearing. The combination of sensations, images, etc, gave rise to a lot of fear, even though there seemed to be very little thought content (remembering that emotions are sensations plus thought arising). I failed to find an 'I' appearing, and wondered who was fearful, but found it hard to concentrate for long at any time.
I've been doing the 'Zooming in on Peace' session again, too. Is it you who is laughing in the background on that one? You said to me before that it's you laughing on 'Zooming in on Death', but there isn't a recording for that one.
With love and thanks :-) xxx

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

You are welcome. You're doing fine. What you are encountering is quite normal.

Relaxing = Good and it is the ONLY way to see. That's why things you can't remember come to you in the shower, when you aren't really thinking about much of anything.

Are you using ButtChair?
I have been using ButtChair again. There is no clear boundary between my butt and the chair, but the sensation doesn't seem to extend far into where the visual image of the chair appears.

Doesn't matter. Sensation isn't really extending anywhere, is it? LOOK Isn't it pretty nebulous? Nothing there?

Wow. In the dentist's chair. Brave girl! To do that at all is really good!

I've been doing the 'Zooming in on Peace' session again, too. Is it you who is laughing in the background on that one? You said to me before that it's you laughing on 'Zooming in on Death', but there isn't a recording for that one.

Hmm. I should check. To be honest, I have *got* to find someone I know with a hard drive and upload the others. I have shared that DropBox with about 45 people and I'd like to get it complete.

My laughing isn't in the background. It is noted in the Transcript. I would have to listen again to remember whether that's me on Peace or not. :) But there being no "me," well. . . bit of a paradox. :)

You have the right idea and you are practicing regularly and reporting regularly. We have no control over when or how you SEE. I will probably share a few different pointers. I have tons of them. On the other hand, I was only given ButtChair. I did ButtChair for 3 months before I saw.

Much love, Steph,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,

Doesn't matter. Sensation isn't really extending anywhere, is it? LOOK Isn't it pretty nebulous? Nothing there?

It is pretty nebulous. Like a tingly cloud. It has an illusion of location, and limited extent - it doesn't seem to go on forever. But it does seem more and more now like nothing is really anywhere!

You have the right idea and you are practicing regularly and reporting regularly. We have no control over when or how you SEE. I will probably share a few different pointers. I have tons of them.

Thank you.

On the other hand, I was only given ButtChair. I did ButtChair for 3 months before I saw.

Wow! This makes me feel much better. Thank you. Part of my impatience comes from feeling uncomfortable about inconveniencing others, and I've been starting to feel concerned as to whether I'm taking up too much of your time. I wonder if that's one of the reasons some people give up?
Much gratitude, as always, for persevering with me 😊
Much love, Steph xxx

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,
I've been doing Buttchair, and slso extending that to the rest of bodily sensation, like Headwall and Skinclothes! There is just the sparkly fuzziness. Then I was looking for a point where images meet eye awareness, and the point where sound meets ear awareness. There are no perceptible boundaries there either. And yet, the world still appears to be full of discrete objects; a cup that is easily separated from a table, a body that moves from room to room to 'outside'. But is the cup really separate from anything? Is anything separate? Experience seems so contradictory. I've been looking at the world more with my glasses off. (I've become long sighted with middle age.) Everything is slightly fuzzy, the way it feels through sensation.
I'll look more tomorrow.
With love and gratitude, Steph xxx

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

I love this:

like Headwall and Skinclothes!

There are no perceptible boundaries there either. And yet, the world still appears to be full of discrete objects; a cup that is easily separated from a table, a body that moves from room to room to 'outside'. But is the cup really separate from anything?

Really?

Discrete objects? Or THOUGHTS that they're discrete?

Check very very carefully.

Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy.
Sorry for missing a day.

Discrete objects? Or THOUGHTS that they're discrete?

I have been doing this, but don't have much to report.
I started writing more here, but it turned into a lot of overthinking! So I'll look more and write more tomorrow.
With much love xxx

[Anastacia42]

Okay. I'm a little confused about what you say you've been doing.

Can you please answer the 2 questions?

Discrete objects?

Or THOUGHTS that they're discrete?

If you say discrete objects, please tell me in Dirrct Experience only, how you See, Hear, Feel. Taste or Smell them to be "discrete?"

Or is it simply Thought Arising with some content you're believing?


Here, try this:

Hand on Desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?



Loving,

[Anastacia42]

PS - I LOVE this stuff! It's my favorite thing to. You can't "take up too much of my time. "

Can give a time exercise, too.

Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy.

Okay. I'm a little confused about what you say you've been doing.

I've been looking at objects and trying to see if they are discrete or not.

Can you please answer the 2 questions?
Discrete objects?

I don't know

Or THOUGHTS that they're discrete?

I don't know

If you say discrete objects, please tell me in Direct Experience only, how you See, Hear, Feel. Taste or Smell them to be "discrete?"

So next to me is an "apple" on a "desk."
See. I see an area of 'red' and 'green' which is 'round', and an area of 'white' which has straight edges. They look different. I see a boundary where the red and green appear to end, and the colour of the desk starts.
Hear. When I hit the apple and then the desk with something, different sounds appear.
Feel. They have different textures and temperatures.
Taste. They taste different.
Smell. They smell different.

Or is it simply Thought Arising with some content you're believing?

It seems to be just direct experience that differentiates them. I see, smell, feel, etc, what appear to be 'different' phenomena.
But I don't know if being different makes them discrete? And are they really different? They are both just a thing appearing to sense perceptions. I need to look at this more.

Hand on Desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes. Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

One thing. The tingly cloud of sensation.

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

No. Not in the sensation.

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

Just a sensation.

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

If the hand is still, it feels like there is just 'a sensation'. But if it 'moves' over the 'surface of the desk' it feels like the hand is feeling the desk.

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No. And no.

I would like to keep going with this for a few days and report on how my experience of it is changing. Would that be ok?

PS - I LOVE this stuff! It's my favorite thing to. You can't "take up too much of my time."

Great :-D This is also my favourite thing to do!

With much love and gratitude xxx