Deepening Recognition of No-Self

[Anastacia42]

Hi Harry,

You're very welcome.

All that is happening is an experiencing of these spontaneous occurrences.

Yes, you're correct.

In the second 10 minutes, there was more of a sense of openness and spaciousness, perhaps it was a body sensation but it’s hard for me to pinpoint. Definitely there was more relaxation in the body at times though.

Exactly. When we lie, there's tension, heaviness & contraction. When something is true, it's relaxed, light, expansive - open & spacious, as you say.
If I could teach one thing to everyone on the planet, that would be it - how to tell truth from lies.

Yes, I'm well.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
The label coloured the experience…

This question is asking whether just labeling actually changes anything. Let's look at that more closely.



Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Stay relaxed & open.

Loving

[Harry]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for your response.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

All there is to the seeing experience is the red coloured shapes (as the word).

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

The label green is contrary to the experience of the red colour.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

The experience of red is unchanged by the labelling as green… so the colour is not changed, but the label is an additional inference on top. The redness stays the same, whatever shaped label/word it is formed into, including good or bad.

Labels are constructed or fabricated on top of the actual experience… I’m not sure if this is the best way to say though. I think nevertheless, it is becoming clearer to me now though.

Hopefully this is on the right track!

Many thanks,
Harry

[Anastacia42]

Good! Yes, you've got it.

Now another version of the previous exercise:


Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Let me know what is found.

Labeling the day, the Sensations, etc. does nothing to reduce their beauty or joy, but can hide them from our awareness.

Loving,

[Harry]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you.

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

I couldn’t find any essential difference in the thoughts themselves, besides their content. Whether I was thinking of a friend or a stranger, both thoughts seemed to act in a similar way as the red/green label exercise before, being without any real substance? Just a label and not something truly real (hopefully this isn’t unclear!). Friend, stranger, are just names, and names are labels just as before.

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.” Is there a difference? Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

It was great to explore this straight after thinking about other people or characters, as it really helped me to similarly experience that me, or I, or myself, is just a name and a label, not a real thing? Just in the same way as it was while thinking about a friend or stranger.
The thoughts about the me-character thought are just as impersonal and insubstantial as thoughts about anything else.


With gratitude,

Harry

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Harry,

All correct, but why the questing marks? Just v tell what is seen. :)

Okay, very good. Now here is the only exercise I was given here when I saw. I did this for about 3 months. I have come to call it, "ButtChair."

Look at where your butt meets the chair in which you're sitting. Can you find the any exact place where your butt ends & the chair begins? Look closely.

Stay out of stories & out of the content of thoughts & just LOOK. Report what is found.

Loving

[Harry]

Good Morning Stacy,

I am sitting right now; initially, I thought I could feel contact with the chair. But, I’m experiencing that I can’t actually feel the chair, there is just a sensation of pressure that is arising as I sit. It is hard for me to pinpoint a shape of this sensation, or a boundary. The same is true for my back and feet, instead of feeling the back of the chair or the floor, there are just sensations of pressure in my back and tingling in my feet. As I start to feel my whole body now, even though I can visualise my body, I can’t actually directly feel a shape or size. I can’t find the point/s where the outside world begins and where my body finishes. It feels like sensations are just points in space. Even if I hold out my hand, I can’t feel how long my fingers my fingers are or even how many there are, even though I conceptually know how many there are of course.

Many thanks, this has been a very enjoyable process!

All the best,
Harry

[Anastacia42]

Harry. that's beautiful & quite true.

Yes, it IS enjoyable.

How does it feel to find no discernable boundary between this "body" thing and the chair? Just write that is true.


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

typo... write *what* is true.

And you are doing that. Just sink into the experience of noticing no division, no boundary, no separation. Then write about that a little more.

The written answers don't matter much except to tell me where you are. Mostly, just keep LOOKING. You're doing great!

Loving,

[Harry]

Thank you Stacy,

I’m sitting again, and can only feel points of sensation, including pressure and tingling, but no chair or floor. Instead, sensations in a weightless open space are appearing. Without the boundary of a chair or floor, this space is what is here. Any physical tension is rippling and dissolving in this space, which feels relaxing. The sensation are in the space, and the space is in between and around the sensations. If I feel the top of my head and the bottom of my feet, there is nothing in between, the two points are floating in space, without direction or distance or location, both are just here. The space seems completely wide open, without any end. It feels expansive and wonderful.


Thanks for all your help!

Wishing you well,
Harry

[Anastacia42]

Again, lovely, please continue to practice Butt/Chair. Meanwhile. let me share a few more pointers.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Harry]

Thanks you Stacy,

Yes, I’ll definitely keep going with the practice!

Here are my findings from the palm flipping exercise:

The movement happens on its own, it’s just as uncontrolled as watching someone else turn their hand!

The movement occurred after a thought sometimes, and later also without the presence of thought. The thought didn’t control the movement, but preceded it.

Just as the thoughts were spontaneous and uncontrolled, so were the movements.

I couldn’t find a thinker or a mover, or even a controller of this whole exercise. Everything is appearing all on its own.

Even as I’m writing this, I can’t find what is choosing the words and I don’t know what my next sentence will be.


This has been a wonderful exercise as always, thank you!

Best wishes,
Harry

[Anastacia42]

Great, Harry.

I can give you many more pointers, but let me ask you this: Can you find any "me?" Any "I" or "self?"

If not, how does it feel to see this?

If so, please describe this "self."

Loving,

[Harry]

Thank you Stacy,

I have found the pointers really useful; thanks for all your help! I think those pointers have been especially valuable because when looking directly for ‘I’ or a self, I often have previously been unsure where to look or what to look for. So, having the opportunity to look from many other angles has been really effective for me; the more perspectives I can see and experience, the better. I am going to put this aside now though and just look directly for ‘I’ as you’ve suggested.

Sitting here now, lots of experiences are arising.
Sensations in space, sounds, sights, smells, thoughts, movements, intentions. But, none of these feel like a ‘me’ or an ‘I’, they’re all appearing and changing on their own, without any centre or point of reference. The movements and thoughts arising are happening just as witnessed experiences. Glimpsing this openness for even a few moments feels both freeing and relaxing, but also clear as if waking from a kind of dream.

This has been a wonderful experience, and I’m looking forward to continuing. :)

Many thanks,
Harry

[Anastacia42]

Hi Harry,

Yes, I'm well. Hope you are, too.

Remember from my post of September 6 that clarity will come and go. This pretty much depends on whether you are seeing Direct Experience or telling stories (lies).

You seem to like the pointers, so I want to share another resource. These are a bit different, but have the same outcome.

https://smile.amazon.com/Awareness-Game ... 547&sr=8-1

I'm not going to guide you on these, as I haven't done all of them, but I thought you might like to see them. You might take a look and save them for after we finish here.

Okay, so here is another pointer. Please remember to QUOTE the part you are replying to and put your answer underneath. This helps me a lot, especially since I usually reply from my cell phone.

Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day.

Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.

Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or "here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them.

Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please also do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Have fun! Relax - it is the only way to see. Let me know how it goes. How does it feel?

Loving,

[Harry]

Hi Stacy,

https://smile.amazon.com/Awareness-Game ... 547&sr=8-1

Thanks for recommending that resource, I think the light-hearted and game-like approach will be really helpful! I already had a quick look and found it to be simple and direct.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Let me know how it goes. How does it feel?

When practicing watching thoughts passing and the gap between them (both throughout the day and while sitting), I found that the gap got bigger as I began to notice it. Just as with the Butt-chair exercise, how I got a sense of the spaciousness in which body sensations appear, this time there was a spaciousness of mind in which thoughts appear. Thoughts began to lose some of their pull too, feeling more like impersonal words and images. The feeling of spaciousness is quite relieving somehow.

Many thanks for all your help!
Harry