on a non duality video bender

[warissem]

Hi Joan

With our dialogues and direct looking, I really can’t find a separate self, only thoughts and sensations. However that manifests, I’m not sure. As far as feeling like wholeness, I really don’t know what that is supposed to feel like-

Yes, there are thoughts, sensations, colors, sounds, ... There is knowing of the whole stuff. There is no you to know or don't know. Do you see that ? Do you see how do you engage in thoughts ?

if that means the end of seeking, then that isn’t the case here- seeking is still there.

What are you seeking ? What is missing ?
Do you expect the end of suffering after the end of this dialog ?

But the thoughts create an artificial sense of self, it comes and goes and that undermines the direct looking sometimes, and there’s a frustration here and a thought that says whatever this is isn’t enough,

Yes, seeing through the illusion of a separate self does not mean the disappearance of the ego. There are still thoughts about me, you, but you can see them as what they are, just thoughts. It is like thoughts about Santa Klaus or thoughts about a character in a movie. There is frustration because you are expecting a great experience or I don't know.

and there’s a thought that it wants to not be here anymore, it wants to disappear/escape (not to worry, I’m not currently depressed, suicidal or mentally unstable), but it’s a recurrent thought that goes on, I just let it do it’s thing, because I know it comes from a sense of frustration.

Can you look at the frustration ? What is it in terms of sensations in the body ? What is wanting to escape ? Can a thought want something ? Is it all a bunch of thoughts about thoughts ? Do you see this ?

I don’t know if it’s a yes, I don’t feel like I’m in wholeness, so I don’t know, so maybe it’s a no.

Where have you read that you will feel in wholeness ? What is this you which wants to feel special?

I feel that most of it, is intellectual understanding only, so I really don’t know. When I look, I can’t find that unicorn of a separate self, it doesn’t exist and then there all there is but I can’t emphatically say yes, when this question is asked.

I invite you to read again the thread from the beginning, take your time to DO again the exercises and come back to me.

Best wishes

Warissem

[warissem]

Hi Joan

I hope you are OK. Let me know if you are still here or you left the forum.

Thank you

Warissem

[Luckydrops]

Hi Warissem,

I’m ok, thanks so much for checking in. I’ve just been attending to lots of stressful life stuff. I’m still in the forum and will be back to reply soon.

Thank you again!
Joan

[warissem]

Hi Joan

Take it easy. There is stress : look at it, what is stress outside of thoughts ?

Best wishes.

Warissem

[Luckydrops]

Hi Warissem,

Take it easy. There is stress : look at it, what is stress outside of thoughts ?

Yes, stress is a thought. Sometimes there are also sensations, but what’s being seen is that stress is mostly thoughts and imaginings of things in the “future”. The body just does what it needs to do, to attend to urgent things, whatever is stressful, always seems to get taken care of anyway, so there is not a huge need to resolve mental to do lists because things that need to get done get done.

Many thanks again for your time,
Joan

[warissem]

Hi Joan

I am still waiting for your answers to my post of July 21. Take your time for it and give answers through direct experience.

Warissem

[Luckydrops]

Hi Warissem,

Thank you for your patience. I lost a friend this week and it was a peaceful passing, thought I'd share that this discussion is all the more poignant because of how it was seen my friend going through the process of leaving physical form. Towards the end of his life, there was absolutely no "me" in him, he was just pure being.

Regarding your last message-

There is knowing that you are : do you agree ?
There is knowing of "what is" : appearances, sensations, thoughts, ...
Knowing is not separate from being
Knowing is not separate from "what is".

I can unequivocally say yes to all. It is understood. This is wholeness already, right down to the thoughts, imagination and seeking.

Thank you again for your guidance.

Sincerely,
Joan

[warissem]

Hi Joan

First, all my sympathy concerning the leaving of your friend.

These are my last comments and questions :

Yes, there are thoughts, sensations, colors, sounds, ... There is knowing of the whole stuff. There is no you to know or don't know. Do you see that ? Do you see how do you engage in thoughts ?

What are you seeking ? What is missing ?
Do you expect the end of suffering after the end of this dialog ?


Can you look at the frustration ? What is it in terms of sensations in the body ? What is wanting to escape ? Can a thought want something ? Is it all a bunch of thoughts about thoughts ? Do you see this ?

Where have you read that you will feel in wholeness ? What is this "you" which wants to feel special?

Thank you

Warissem

[Luckydrops]

Hi Warissem,

I just need a bit more time. will send my reply shortly.

Thanks as always,
Joan

[Luckydrops]

HI Warissem,

Yes, there are thoughts, sensations, colors, sounds, ... There is knowing of the whole stuff. There is no you to know or don't know. Do you see that ? Do you see how do you engage in thoughts ?

When I look, it is seen that there are spontaneous thoughts and images and some recur more than others and occur with no breaks in between and has commentary about the previous thought. Engaging in thought is also just a thought, when looked at, it is just a stream of thoughts.

What are you seeking ? What is missing ?

Right now, there is no seeking, but there’s a feeling of agitation, when that happens, theres usually a thought that arises about other situations that would be better for “me”. Right now, in this very moment, nothing is missing.

Do you expect the end of suffering after the end of this dialog ?

When it was seen that there’s no me, then there’s just pain but not suffering, because suffering is a thought about the pain whether psychic or physical. Suffering is no longer happening to “me”.

Can you look at the frustration ? What is it in terms of sensations in the body ? What is wanting to escape ? Can a thought want something ? Is it all a bunch of thoughts about thoughts ? Do you see this ?

Frustration is a low level anger. it feels like a tightness in the muscles, a clenching of the jaw, it feels like gripping, an unexpressed energy in the body. Wanting to escape is a thought. there are images of the me being in “better” situations/circumstances than what is happening. A thought cannot want or think, it is as real as a bubble. Yes, it is a bunch of thoughts about thoughts that go on so fast theres no break in between and sometimes it is believed to be real.

Where have you read that you will feel in wholeness ? What is this "you" which wants to feel special?

I have heard it from multiple non-duality speakers, i most likely have misinterpreted what they are saying, what they’re saying is wholeness is already this, not some special state I may have been imagining. The me that needs to feel special is a conditioning, which are repetitive habitual thoughts.

Thank you as always,
Joan

[warissem]

Hi Joan

Your answers are great. There is one thing which needs clarity :

there are images of the me being in “better” situations/circumstances than what is happening.

What is this me are you speaking about ? Can you describe it ?

Warissem

[Luckydrops]

Hi Warissem,

What is this me are you speaking about ? Can you describe it ?

The “me” are just images, in this case it was of a preferred circumstance that exists in the future. For example, I sometimes find that when at work there’s sometimes boredom (which is also a thought) , there’s an image of retiring early in a foreign country and having a better, more pleasurable experience, maybe sitting by a body of water, or taking craft classes. That “me” are thoughts/images, that comes and goes.

Thank you,
Joan

[warissem]

Hi Joan

Other guides are invited to see this thread, they could be further questions. Patience, it would last few days.

Best wishes

Warissem