Hi.

[Miguel]

I see the self created by my irreal toughts as an irreal thing. All the histories and all that stuff.
But there reamins another self: this body, this being experiencing alll this experience. Im an "i"! its here! im feeling it!

[Miguel]

Theres someone here. I dont now who is, but this center of experience, this being ,all the ilusion is created by this creator of ilusions.Please,help me to see its irreal nature. Not easy here. Break me again.

[Miguel]

Theres a world around, and a body in it, and from this body the presence..wow,the presence i observing all thats hapening.And i suposse that the movement of the hand just happen by it self.Its life happening.I am experiencing a little glimpse now.

It just happens, the movement of the hand. And theres the ilusion that theres somebody that moves it or can control it. Its all ilusion.But the ilusion is part of all the picture also. Would like to dissolve it.

I feel some subtle new and exciting feelings now.im deepening...

[Elizabeth]

Theres a world around, and a body in it, and from this body the presence..wow,the presence i observing all thats hapening.And i suposse that the movement of the hand just happen by it self.Its life happening.I am experiencing a little glimpse now.

It just happens, the movement of the hand. And theres the ilusion that theres somebody that moves it or can control it. Its all ilusion.But the ilusion is part of all the picture also. Would like to dissolve it.

I feel some subtle new and exciting feelings now.im deepening...

'It's life happening.' Yes.
'It's all illusion, but illusion is part of all the picture.' Yes.

This is where it's good to take a break from the computer, and take this outside for a walk, if you can. LOOK at how you walk. Is a self walking?
How much of a self is needed to go for a walk?
Serious question. Do you need a self to go for a walk?
Look around you.
Where do you stop, and the world begins?
Who draws that line?
Yes, take this outside.
Love, Elizabeth

[Miguel]

will do.:-)

[Miguel]

Is a self walking?
How much of a self is needed to go for a walk?
Serious question. Do you need a self to go for a walk?
Look around you.
Where do you stop, and the world begins?
Who draws that line?

Not easy task this one. I went for a walk, take some fresh air...

Theres is no self walking,but is more like a tought based in ths evening experiences tan a real feeling i think.Theres identification yet i think.
For going for a walk i need the part of my ilusory self that decides to go for a walk.
I dont need a self to go for a walk. But theres other part of me that says that a self is necesary, a self that decides to go for a walk and things like that.

Theres no i so theres no point where to stop.But theres and i at the same time that believes that he takes the control. Confusing.

Nobody draws the line, cz theres no i.Theres no line, never was.So only reality is happening now here.The world i operating all around.I dont do anything.

But at the same time the i is there arising.The ilusion is too strong.

Doing this exercices i experiences some very very very little glipses of no "i" and the world or reality just happening.It was a new feeling but really deep and...how to explain it...all was being made by itself.Life was happening and i was hapening also. It was really beautiful and releasing.But i repeat that it was only less than a secong. A fast glimpse. Feelings about ddeath and transitory state of this substance arised in that fast glimpse also.

This exercice was not easy for me.

[Elizabeth]

Is a self walking?
How much of a self is needed to go for a walk?
Serious question. Do you need a self to go for a walk?
Look around you.
Where do you stop, and the world begins?
Who draws that line?

Not easy task this one. I went for a walk, take some fresh air...

Theres is no self walking,but is more like a tought based in ths evening experiences tan a real feeling i think.Theres identification yet i think.
For going for a walk i need the part of my ilusory self that decides to go for a walk.
I dont need a self to go for a walk. But theres other part of me that says that a self is necesary, a self that decides to go for a walk and things like that.

Theres no i so theres no point where to stop.But theres and i at the same time that believes that he takes the control. Confusing.

Nobody draws the line, cz theres no i.Theres no line, never was.So only reality is happening now here.The world i operating all around.I dont do anything.

But at the same time the i is there arising.The ilusion is too strong.

Doing this exercices i experiences some very very very little glipses of no "i" and the world or reality just happening.It was a new feeling but really deep and...how to explain it...all was being made by itself.Life was happening and i was hapening also. It was really beautiful and releasing.But i repeat that it was only less than a secong. A fast glimpse. Feelings about ddeath and transitory state of this substance arised in that fast glimpse also.

This exercice was not easy for me.

Good work. Staying with the honest looking is starting to pay off. It's close.
It's like you are almost looking at it. Almost is kind of painful, so here we have no choice but to go for the truth.
You are getting glimpses. Life is happening. Yes.
The illusion of a separate self comes and goes. Yes.

When it is not present, still you live, walk around. Then it comes back and starts having thoughts that make it seem like it is in charge. You wrote this.
Do you see how the time when self was not being actively maintained, that time is often ignored by thoughts of self? Somehow not important? Please check that out.

Here is the deal, Miguel. We look at the real things in the world. The trees, the sidewalks, the hand, the emotions everyone has, the sensory impressions. These are real. Even the thoughts, real.
We have real thoughts about Batman, very popular guy, good stories. Made up of thoughts about a Batman. However, Batman is not real.
Can it be that a self is like Batman? Made up of thoughts? A story, which keeps changing, that you continuously tell yourself?

Point to me the self. You say it is an illusion.
Made of thoughts about a self. That just arise. Some good, some painful.
Then you say an illusion has thoughts. Thoughts that decide to go for a walk? An illusion moves hands? React to the world quickly and flawlessly?
Does a baby need the idea that it has a self to be alive?

Some things to look at, in today's work.
I will check you in the morning.
Be well, Miguel.

[Miguel]

wow...

Do you see how the time when self was not being actively maintained, that time is often ignored by thoughts of self? Somehow not important? Please check that out.

Yes. Absolutely. self is not interested on this. Ans it feels like painful for the self to consider this option or to see in this directon.after all, what could the self do in front of that? its impossible for the self to control the reality cz it has no power there.

Can it be that a self is like Batman? Made up of thoughts? A story, which keeps changing, that you continuously tell yourself?

Yes, it is. But i belive this history tooo strong. Years telling me this history. im too atached. But i see the ilusory nature of "Miguel"-

Point to me the self. You say it is an illusion.
Made of thoughts about a self. That just arise. Some good, some painful.
Then you say an illusion has thoughts. Thoughts that decide to go for a walk? An illusion moves hands? React to the world quickly and flawlessly?
Does a baby need the idea that it has a self to be alive?

This is the most difficult part of the whole thing that you tell me.
Self is an ilusion. its created by toughts about a self, my self. They just arise.
But...if toughts happen before the ilusion of an "i" is created, i mean, if toughts happen before the "i", and "i" is an ilusion, how the hell could the "i" create toughts? Im confused here...
Toughts happen, and they create the history about an "i". I believe in this ilusion,this "i".It happens.And at the same time i believe that this "i" in wich i believe as toughts.But toughts exist and happens before the "i". But i see a solid "i" here having toughts and its unreal at the same time.Its like being in the middle of two territories now.

[Miguel]

Confusion.

[Miguel]

Then you say an illusion has thoughts. Thoughts that decide to go for a walk? An illusion moves hands? React to the world quickly and flawlessly?
Does a baby need the idea that it has a self to be alive?

But most of the times Miguel is here and thinks "i want to go for a walk, i would be goog to do for a walk" and then my body moves and i go for a walk.

Most of the times theres a tought before the action...so the toughts control my life, they have this power. I decide to go out and move my body cz i have tought and decided that i want to go foor a walk.

Or when you have two choose between two options you think about both possibilities and then you decide and you
take an action in that direction.So for me toughts decide and rules my life.

This is the most difficult thing to see in your words. Im like an hynotized being. Hypnotized by my ilusions, and i decide following that irreal ilusion, but i believe in that ilusion and this center of experience is real, is happening.
Im domined by this like a fanatical person followin an ilusion. Maybe the ilusion is no real, but my actions are real and inspired by that unreal "me" that this center of experience believes.

Do u understand what i mean?

[Elizabeth]

Then you say an illusion has thoughts. Thoughts that decide to go for a walk? An illusion moves hands? React to the world quickly and flawlessly?
Does a baby need the idea that it has a self to be alive?

But most of the times Miguel is here and thinks "i want to go for a walk, i would be goog to do for a walk" and then my body moves and i go for a walk.

Most of the times theres a tought before the action...so the toughts control my life, they have this power. I decide to go out and move my body cz i have tought and decided that i want to go foor a walk.

Or when you have two choose between two options you think about both possibilities and then you decide and you
take an action in that direction.So for me toughts decide and rules my life.

This is the most difficult thing to see in your words. Im like an hynotized being. Hypnotized by my ilusions, and i decide following that irreal ilusion, but i believe in that ilusion and this center of experience is real, is happening.
Im domined by this like a fanatical person followin an ilusion. Maybe the ilusion is no real, but my actions are real and inspired by that unreal "me" that this center of experience believes.

Do u understand what i mean?

The thoughts control your life :-) Sure, I understand how that feels. This is going to be long, but I think it will be helpful.

Let's break the thoughts down. Some of them work as a focused tool for learning and deciding things, putting things together in patterns and working at problems. We have no problem with them, in fact, we get education and training to make this tool work better. Like scientists, or technicians, or musicians. Always sharpening those tools.
Please check yourself for these thoughts, identify a few, so you get the feel for them.

Most of us have a problem with the other thoughts. The ones that seem to run our lives, tell us ABOUT our self. Are we doing well, are we doing badly? Constant talking in the head about things. These thoughts work hard to keep us up to date on a self.
Please check yourself for these thoughts, identify a few favorites that come around a lot. OK?

Thoughts make up a story of your life. They 'remember' your history, selectively! , and like a good video edit they smooth out the transitions where something other than self happens. Because in reality, we don't remember everything.
In a social and complicated world, a "self model" provides a good reference point for a person. As you move about the world, you are in the center of a world in your head that is constantly calculating what is advantageous for you, or not. Friends and enemies, all the associations that you automatically create and store. All the relationships held in the head, always changing. Amazingly complex job. This is a finding from evolutionary psychology. We evolved this way because it is useful, not a horrible mistake. In a way, other humans ARE perceived as our environment.
The only thing is, the movie of the self, always projected on the world, is not the world. It is ABOUT the world.
So we go around feeling a little distance from direct experience, a little cheated of life.
So Miguel, look at how your experience is ABOUT the world. It is not the world.
See how your thoughts place a you in the center. It's a habit, a strong pattern. Never questioned. We never looked!
The world can easily be seen without the self-tool and it's constant talking ABOUT what you see. Only LOOK.
Much love.

[Miguel]

Thank u elizabeth.This helps.

Will work on this this evening.

Going for a walk now. See u in a few hours.

Miguel.

[Miguel]

Hi Elizabeth.

I understand and see what you told me in your last post. I have been observing only a little this evening but i see it.
Maybe must i practice and observe more or only see it?

I see the self as a result of thoughts that are ilusion.I see how i see the world trought this ilusion. I got some glimpses of the real world without this pojections from the ilusory self. This evening i have experienced moments of beautiful and peaceful silence and joy, childhood feelings and remembrances, the world naked as it really is, inocent and pure reality full of joy.

But the ilusion is so strong and always returns.

Maybe should i observe more. I have not had an intensive observacion today like yesterday.

[Miguel]

I feel some subtle energetic phenomena happening here during the day,silence, inner experiences and the self falling down. Something very real is happening slowly (maybe not slowly at all...).

[Elizabeth]

Hi Elizabeth.

I understand and see what you told me in your last post. I have been observing only a little this evening but i see it.
Maybe must i practice and observe more or only see it?

I see the self as a result of thoughts that are ilusion.I see how i see the world trought this ilusion. I got some glimpses of the real world without this pojections from the ilusory self. This evening i have experienced moments of beautiful and peaceful silence and joy, childhood feelings and remembrances, the world naked as it really is, inocent and pure reality full of joy.

But the ilusion is so strong and always returns.

Maybe should i observe more. I have not had an intensive observacion today like yesterday.

Hi Miguel,
Things seem to be going well. It's as if you have all the information, and need to live with it for a little while, walk around focused on looking at how life is living you, and how a self is living as a separate thing, or so it 'thinks" :-)
This is a simple process, the honest looking, but different for eveyone.
Sometimes you get some dramas, sometimes it is quiet. Self may try out a few more identities, some interesting ideas, see if you can believe something, it's quite tricky, after all, it knows everything that hooks your attention and belief.
That is why writing down the thoughts and looking at them for truth is helpful. We lie to ourselves all the time. Pretty things up, believe something that we never question.
Maybe read some things on the forum. Sometimes another thread answers a question, tells you something you needed to hear.
So please, keep attention focused and directly look at how often thoughts are coming and going, making up a life about a self, and what it does. Not just a cup, but a MY cup. Not just walking, but ABOUT the walk.
Intense work, all to get yourself to that moment of simply seeing how it is.
The illusion often comes back after that, we just can't believe it anymore, the way we always have. We saw the truth. So things begin to lose their power to hook you. That part takes time. But the seeing takes no time at all.
So right now, we work to open to that seeing. That is our one and only focus.
Let me know how it goes with you, Miguel.
Love, Elizabeth