What is it?I don't know. Maybe the same thing that sends the thoughts, and makes me breathe etc.
It is untracable/unfindable. It is not a thing, such as an object. It's a bit like the wind. You can see the effects of the wind, but you cannot see it or trace its origins.What moves attention?
I don't know. Maybe the same thing that sends the thoughts, and makes me breathe etc.
What is it?
Is this A thing?
No, none of these. It's mysterious.Can this be touched?
Can this be smelled?
Can this be seen?
Can this be heard
Can this be tasted?
We are looking at row reality, nothing mysterious here.No, none of these. It's mysterious.
Let's look at decision and choice and see how these are happening at experience.When I am sitting quietly, attention seemingly randomly moves. But it seems also that if there is an outside stimulation, that attention may move to, or not. There could be a sudden noise in the house, and then the attention would go to that, until it decides to move elsewhere. Or, for example, if you tell me to focus on the breath, then when this is read, the focus will be on the breath, until it isn't. There is no (personal) control over where the attention goes.
Not sure what "row reality" means. But here, if it can't be explained, it's a mystery to me :-).We are looking at row reality, nothing mysterious here.
Well the wind can't be touched, smelled, seen, heard, tasted etc. yet it blows the trees. But, I suppose there is no intention for it to do anything. It's doesn't say, hey, I'm going to blow the trees today. It just happens.How can something which can't be touched, smelled, seen, heard, tasted do anything, anything at all?
I did some tests today. For the most part there is no thinking process at all. Choices are made instantly, fluidly, and it is realised after (there is a thought) that a choice was made.How the decision is made which glass to choose?
Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
Do ‘you’ choose?
Can a chooser be located?
ops, I mean RAW, sorry. English is not my native language and sometimes such a mistakes can happen,Not sure what "row reality" means. But here, if it can't be explained, it's a mystery to me :-).
Can it be said that's the choice happens automatically?For the most part there is no thinking process at all. Choices are made instantly, fluidly, and it is realised after (there is a thought) that a choice was made.
This sounds like logic :-)For one choice though, I could choose between tea and coffee. As I looked at the two options, a thought came "you have already had 3 coffees today, so maybe teas is better". So I had tea.
Have fun and reply when it's possible.I am away on a birthday weekend this weekend, so I will play with this to deepen this looking, and find out if there is a chooser.
Ah ok, no worries. I understand, I make mistakes in French all the time. Your English is very good :-).ops, I mean RAW, sorry. English is not my native language and sometimes such a mistakes can happen
I'm getting a feel for this. It's a big difference. DE is clear and here. Thoughts are fuzzy and messy and only describe what has happned, not what is happening. Thoughts are always a step behind DE, what's going on is right now.There is a HUGE difference between experience and thoughts ABOUT experience.
Yes, that's exactly what happens. But a thought can come in and comment about the choice.Can it be said that's the choice happens automatically?
Nope. Thoughts are not chosen.Did you choose that particular thougth to appear?
Just thoughts arising with options.What is it that is considering these options?
There are only pros and cons arising, continually going back and forth.Is there anything that is listing the pros and cons, or only just thoughts appear about pros and cons? – look very carefully
It just happened. Nobody made it appear.Let’s say a thought appear: “I decided not to eat the chocolate”
So the thought about the decision just appeared.
What made that thought appear?
No I can't. There is a thought, I made that decision. But the decision-maker can't be found.Can you find the thing that made that decision, apart from the presence of the thought about the decision?
It's not sure. It seems to be the strongest thought that becomes the decision. When I did the exercise, there was a thought, "not eating is better", there was a relaxation into that thought, and then it was decided. No further thoughts arose. However, with me, this is not always the case. Even after decision is made, there can be after-thougts that question the decision, and it can last for a long time.How exactly is the decision made?
This just happened, in this case, not eating. If the decision was to eat, then the chocolate would have just been popped into the mouth, no thought, no doer. It's weird that an "I" thought claims to do this.What is it that performed the chosen action?
Ok, agreed :-).Also reply each question one by one and dont' bulk the reply.
Exactly. Thoughts came almost immediately after the experience.I'm getting a feel for this. It's a big difference. DE is clear and here. Thoughts are fuzzy and messy and only describe what has happned, not what is happening. Thoughts are always a step behind DE, what's going on is right now.
What IS NOT happen automatically?Can it be said that the choice happens automatically?Yes, that's exactly what happens. But a thought can come in and comment about the choice.
Can you find the thing that question that decision, apart from the presence of the thought about questioning the decision?However, with me, this is not always the case. Even after decision is made, there can be after-thougts that question the decision, and it can last for a long time.
I love this question. I can't find anything that is not happening automatically. Nature is functioning completely automatically, plants growing, rain, rivers flowing, and we are nature doing the same; the body doing its thing, the five senses don't need an "I" to function. Thoughts also arise and dissolve automatically. Then the personality arises as words and actions, but without the need of a person. You could say that man can cause things to happen, but even that's not true because there is no "person" that does anything. The being's actions come from personality and conditioning. There's no "I" who decides to do something, as seen before. This is great. I will keep looking...What IS NOT happen automatically?
It would be nice if they did stop appearing, but my exerience is that they never do. I would like for decisions to become easier, so fewer after thoughts would help, but that's not going to happen.Is there an expectation that thoughts should stop appearing and doing its thing? e.g commenting a choice?
I once knew a man who had spent a year sitting and stopping thoughts and he managed to stop them altogether, so he said. But the natural funtioning of thoughts seems to be to rise constantly. No reason for them to stop. But ironically, a thought may arise that wishes for thoughts to stop.Why should they?
No. It's just more thought(s) that arise(s). Behind the thoughts there is silence.Can you find the thing that question that decision, apart from the presence of the thought about questioning the decision?
Beautiful.I love this question. I can't find anything that is not happening automatically. Nature is functioning completely automatically, plants growing, rain, rivers flowing, and we are nature doing the same; the body doing its thing, the five senses don't need an "I" to function. Thoughts also arise and dissolve automatically. Then the personality arises as words and actions, but without the need of a person. You could say that man can cause things to happen, but even that's not true because there is no "person" that does anything. The being's actions come from personality and conditioning. There's no "I" who decides to do something, as seen before. This is great. I will keep looking...
:-) Yes, all kind of thoughts may or may not arise. We are looking at experience to see IF a arrising or subsiding is something that we do.But ironically, a thought may arise that wishes for thoughts to stop.
The legs move seemingly on their own. Of course the brain is directing the mussels etc., but it is not deciding how or where they move.What mooves the legs?
Again, walking is seen to be happening, like typing is happening right now. A thought will try to steal the show and say "I'm doing this", but a thought can't do anything.Is there a controller that controls walking, or is there just walking?
This is an ongoing investigation that I am doing in my daily life. Sometimes it is clearer than others. But generally it is seen that stuff happens, walking, driving, etc. and throughts describe what's happening or claim to be the doer. There is a gradual seeing through this. It's a fascinating exploration.Is there a WHO living your life? Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
What is the experience of "brain directing the mussels"?The legs move seemingly on their own. Of course the brain is directing the mussels etc., but it is not deciding how or where they move.
Exactly.Again, walking is seen to be happening, like typing is happening right now. A thought will try to steal the show and say "I'm doing this", but a thought can't do anything.
it is.. :-)This is an ongoing investigation that I am doing in my daily life. Sometimes it is clearer than others. But generally it is seen that stuff happens, walking, driving, etc. and throughts describe what's happening or claim to be the doer. There is a gradual seeing through this. It's a fascinating exploration.
None. There is no experiencing of the brain doing anything. This is learnt knowledge.What is the experience of "brain directing the mussels"?
Not at all.Can it really be observed brain directing the mussels?
This is just learnt knowledge.What is "brain directiong the mussels" than?
Exactly.Isn't it just another thought claiming that things are this way or that way?
Yes, I can see this. Clearly? It's coming.So things happen by themselves and thoughts are creating a story almost immediately?
Can you clearly see this?
Nothing. It's all just happening, now.What is not just a happening?
It's an after-thought that says that an "I" has chosen to do something.Can the character choose what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
It seems not, no. The story arises. There can arise the thought of wanting a different story.Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?
Yes, this has been seen repeatedly. There is all that is happening now, including the thoughts, and there is the story of Calvin, that arises as thoughts right now. This is a powerful seeing; that the story of Calvin can only arise in this moment, even though it can seem big and real and in time.Can the story of Calvin be seen as what it is - just a story, including Calvin?
What about Calvin?Nothing. It's all just happening, now.
It seems not, no. The story arises. There can arise the thought of wanting a different story.
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