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[justthis]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That this guiding has a singleness of purpose only to guide and illuminate those concepts and beliefs that appear to be blocking the liberation that is already here.

What are you looking for at LU?
All I've ever wanted in this whole life since I was a little kid, is to just be what I am I had always felt separated. That is more important to me than all the riches in the world. I had always felt like an alien on a foreign planet.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I really don't know what to expect, other than I would expect and that's said loosely, that the questions asked would in my particular case illuminate and destroy the blocking illusions. I would also hope that the guide is clear and uncompromising. Enabling the virus to spread is not acceptable, Just as was my alcoholism.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
First of all it took up a lot of time and money to seek . The practices, teachings, and books are never ending and perpetuate seeking. I've been a member of AA for over 29 years so I've done a lot of personal inventory work. The AA program as I see it now did not touch the core issue that is the sense of separation and "what is NOW". I found myself turning into an AA Parrot. I tried the "Who am I" teachings from Ramana Maharshi for approximately 2 years though now there's very little memory of that other than one answer that always seemed to be "Nothing or no identity". Basically I experienced many different ways of looking at life and the apparent people around me, but there was a constant thought that kept appearing throughout my seeking career which spanned over 50 years, and the thought was: "Its got be be simpler than this" as I kept referring back to the simplicity of a flower growing and how it didn't need to read any books or follow other flowers on how to be a flower, it is just life flowering. I also imagined how the cave men and women lived there life and how simple it must be to just be...

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Vivien]

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.

This is going to be your inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realization, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards investigating that what it is that you mistake for a self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
Also, post daily, or at least every other day. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

When you say, you want to be guided to realize that there is no self, what do you expect that this realization should look like?
What benefits do you expect from seeing no self?
What would stay the same?
What you do not want to happen?

Please look at these and reply with some detail and full honestly.

[justthis]

Hello Vivien thank you for being here.

Yes we can agree to the first question.

2nd question - not sure that I have any expectations, I'm open to finding out what the view will look like when its clear. if you had asked me that question 4 years ago I'm sure the answer would be quite different.

3rd question - my heart is telling me that this is not really about a getting of anything. Coming from a life of trying to know this and that I'm going to assume that this is about the opposite, not knowing.

4th question - I'm assuming that I will still have a job, come home to the same house, drive the same freeway daily, go grocery shopping as usual, do laundry, wash dishes, etc., breathing happens, heart beat happens etc. but I don't know for sure because anything can happen at anytime.

5th question - I do not want to be led in the direction of self-improvement, self help or any of that. If the self is fiction what good would that do?...none I'm thinking.

[Vivien]

Hi,

What name would you like me to call you?

Thank you for your replies. I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, so our conversation will be easier to read later for both of us.

So here is the link to a video how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

2nd question - not sure that I have any expectations, I'm open to finding out what the view will look like when its clear. if you had asked me that question 4 years ago I'm sure the answer would be quite different.

Please watch out for any expectation during our inquiry. There might be hiding some in the background :)

The reason for those questions were to find out what expectations you have how it would be like or feel like when the separate self is seen through. Many have the idea that it’s a special state of bliss, happiness, peace and constant ease; and a happy state has to be present as evidence of having had the realization. But the realization is often quite subtle, and it can be hidden by expectations. When there is any sort of expectation, there is a comparison between the preconceived ideas of what it should be like and what is seen, with the conclusion “This not IT”.

my heart is telling me that this is not really about a getting of anything. Coming from a life of trying to know this and that I'm going to assume that this is about the opposite, not knowing.

Yes, this is a good hunch. It’s about discovering that what we thought we knew in our whole life might not be the way we thought it was, it’s about not-knowing. When the mind is in the I-know-mind state, then it’s a closed system, and there is no place to discover something new. So an open mind is essential for this inquiry.

I'm assuming that I will still have a job, come home to the same house, drive the same freeway daily, go grocery shopping as usual, do laundry, wash dishes, etc., breathing happens, heart beat happens etc.

Yes. Outer circumstances won’t change. Life will continue being life. Only the perception of it might change.

I do not want to be led in the direction of self-improvement, self help or any of that. If the self is fiction what good would that do?...none I'm thinking.

Great! Then we are on the same page. Self-improvement is just rearranging the furniture in a virtual reality :) what we are going to look at if there is an inherent person at the core in the first place, instead of trying to change it, but to see if there is an actual one that could be ever improved.

that the questions asked would in my particular case illuminate and destroy the blocking illusions.

I wouldn’t say destroy it, rather to see it for an illusion. When you are in the desert and you see an oasis, the solution is not to destroy the seeming oases, but to discover that it’s just a mirage, just the play of light and not an actual oasis. But the mirage doesn’t have to go away, it’s enough to see it for what it is.

"Its got be be simpler than this" as I kept referring back to the simplicity of a flower growing and how it didn't need to read any books or follow other flowers on how to be a flower, it is just life flowering.

Yes, it is simple. But when the search is done with the mind (by thinking) and it seems very complicated. So the solution is to just notice thoughts and desire to trying to figure this out, but not following that route. Instead, staying with the here-and-now experience of the 5 senses, looking with simplicity, instead looking THROUGH a complicate web of mind-made abstractions and beliefs.

All I've ever wanted in this whole life since I was a little kid, is to just be what I am I had always felt separated.

Could you please tell me more about this?

How do you FEEL separated right now?
What is the feeling of it?

And how do you know that feeling is the feeling of separation and not something else?

Please ponder on my comments to see your expectations from a different perspective. Because what I can say for sure, it won’t be how you imagine it to be. Since it cannot be known in advance. It’s never how one imagines it to be.

So it would be the best, if you could drop all your expectations that you might discover, and just start from scratch.

Please, put all the books and videos aside, we are going to be focusing on what you see and notice in your own immediate experience, rather than what you have learned. Can we agree on this?

Vivien

[justthis]

What name would you like me to call you?

Stephen is Fine, how about you?
Boy, this mind has been busy today..

All I've ever wanted in this whole life since I was a little kid, is to just be what I am I had always felt separated.
Could you please tell me more about this?

Something happened when I was very young that I've never been able to explain. There was a VERY intense flash of light and ever since then it seems I never felt Like I belonged here, not sure if that was a dream or some weird phenomena. something always felt off, or missing, I had terrifying fears of annihilation. I didn't seem to have any friends, kept to myself mostly, but I had this huge ambition to figure stuff out (especially mechanical gadgets) to see how they worked, what was making them do what they did. I just wanted to feel good inside, sports helped a little but still something was definitely off. kids around me were making fun of retarded people and I was very upset about that, I disliked people. I just wanted to be who and what I am . . . I felt a deep longing to find out, I couldn't figure out why whatever it was did this to me...

How do you FEEL separated right now?
What is the feeling of it?

It feels like I'm separated and not separated at the same time, like being stuck between somewhere, like right on the edge, Or falling with no bottom.

And how do you know that feeling is the feeling of separation and not something else?

I'm actually not sure at this point it feels unknowable cant even put a label on it.

Please, put all the books and videos aside, we are going to be focusing on what you see and notice in your own immediate experience, rather than what you have learned. Can we agree on this?

Yes we can absolutely agree on this, I even cancelled a zoom meeting with Kenneth Madden for this Sunday. So books are put away and I didn't watch any videos today other than the one on how to put the quotes in here.

About expectations -

The biggest one I noticed right away today after dropping the books and videos was I cut off from trying to get something or somewhere, feeling disoriented. I expected to get something from all videos and books, I got more stress and anxiety..
I expect life will take care of me no matter what happens.
I expect that I may have an awakening similar to the ones I had during my time in AA (Alcoholics Anonymous)
I've noticed in this life that not one expectation I've ever had has been spot on, how could it be? there's no experience of a future expectation anywhere to be found other than in this mind.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

Stephen is Fine, how about you?

My name is Vivien.

I've noticed in this life that not one expectation I've ever had has been spot on, how could it be? there's no experience of a future expectation anywhere to be found other than in this mind.

Yes, exactly. Expectations are thought-made creations on behalf of a fictional self, called me. That this me might get something in the future. That this me might feel better in the future.

But in this inquiry we won’t try to fix this me, rather we are going to investigate if this me actually exists in a way we thought it were.

I expect life will take care of me no matter what happens.

And what if there is no me separate from life? What if there is just life, but it doesn’t happen to a me? – This is what we are going to look at… to see this experientially.

Do you ready to start?

We are only ever going to look at our immediate experience.
So we are going to look at what is here now.

Let’s look at what looking is.

1. Looking can only ever happen here and now. Right now, in this very moment. It’s never about a remembered memory. It’s never a just thinking, but looking at directly what is actually (literally) here now.

2. Looking is noticing the raw experience of colour, sound, smell, taste and sensation in the present moment, right now.


3. Also, we can notice the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.
Just simply noticing thoughts as phenomena as they appear. This is how we look at thoughts.

4. However, focusing on what thought is saying, what it’s about, what the content is, is NOT looking. Although, this is what we are the most familiar with. We are predominantly focusing on the thought content, the story it tells, instead of noticing it just as an appearing phenomenon.


5. The content of a thought is an IMAGINED EXPERIENCE. It’s not a real experience, it’s just a mental representation of it.

6. Any theory, interpretation, speculation, theory, philosophy are contents of thoughts, in short, just intellectualization. Intellectualization can only ever result in gaining more theoretical knowledge, but it cannot lead to a first-hand experiential recognition.


7. Looking is a shift from focusing on thoughts to noticing the direct experience of the 5 senses and the arising of thoughts in this very moment.

Make sure that this is very clear, since this will the bases of our inquiry. If you have any doubts or questions about this, just let me know.

Sit for about 10-15 minutes and just notice:
What is actually here?
1. Colours and shapes
2. Sounds
3. Tastes
4. Smells
5. Sensations (coming from touching something, or noticing the bodily sensations or feelings that are present in the body).
6. Thoughts. A thought can appear as a pictorial/visual thought, like imagining an apple. It can appear as an auditory / verbal thought, like the word ‘apple’. Auditory thoughts can appear as a voice or a tune of a music, or an imagined sound of a car or a person.
Most of the time, thoughts tell a story, often accompanied by a ‘mental movie’ with a ‘soundtrack’ of the story :)

Could you please give examples of each of these points?

Is there anything else here, anything at all, to experience other than these 6 aspects?

Is there anything (other than these 6 aspects) that you can know of or be aware of at any moment?

Please be very thorough with this, since this is the base of our investigation to see what is here now, and what is just a thought content, a story.

Vivien

[justthis]

Vivien,

I have company at my house, I will send my next reply on Thursday.
I am liking this inquiry, I am seeing I have spent far too much time in the head in thought listening to
what the mind says. Just so I am clear on your instructions, you want me to write what my direct experience in the now is with each of the numbered 6 aspects of the senses?

Stephen

[Vivien]

Just so I am clear on your instructions, you want me to write what my direct experience in the now is with each of the numbered 6 aspects of the senses?

yes.

I'm looking forward to your replies. Have a nice day, Vivien

[justthis]

quote]Could you please give examples of each of these points?[/quote]
Most of the time colors and shapes - are not really looked at, they are seen but quickly given up by thought, labeling and sometimes a story about them. I was looking at a cheezit box that is red, yellow. For a tiny second I could see the red and yellow without any labels that it is red and yellow, has a shape or any other information, but then the name cheezit came up along with how good they taste, that they are original, reduced fat, etc. Thoughts and labeling both appear to be covering over, pulling my attention away from just experiencing what's actually here.

When sounds - are heard I don't always know what they are, but at my shop where I work I recognize certain sounds from far away or close by like the sounds of a car horn or certain tools being used, I've had the experience of them. When I don't recognize what they are I will sometimes investigate, but not always. When thought rises up about anything from maybe yesterday I don't hear anything really because my focus is so much involved in the thought. When I am in nature I may see a big bird or a bug or just any creature and I can enjoy them sometimes without any naming or even wanting to know what they are, I feel like I'm experiencing life's fullness, but one thought that comes in can end that experience and I never get that back, every moment appears new with a whole new set of experiences constantly.

When something is tasted - it often goes unnoticed by chat I may be involved in. I was biting into a snack but I was thinking about a book I got in the mail and quickly lost the taste and enjoyment of the food for the thought of the book. Its like I've never had a life, it has been almost completely dominated by a fictitious ME.

>>> one doubt came up today, the doubt was saying that I'm too consumed in thought to ever see, smell, touch, taste, feel and experience life the way it truly is.

smells - can either bring enjoyment, or are warning signs of danger. I work around a lot of chemicals everyday, some really nasty ones, so if there's a distraction it could be harmful to my health, stories about past or future while I'm working with dangerous chemicals have nothing to do with the experience of the moment, but they rise up and can take control of the moment in thought.

Sensations - are felt in the body quite frequently in regards to anxiety here, and along with them are fears. This body and brain have learned to fear certain sensations, adrenaline rushes, racing heartbeats, tightness in the chest, tingling, dry mouth, dizziness. There's usually a storyline of death associated and a need to fix it. I have tinnitus so sometimes it seems loud, but mostly drowned out but other sounds, distractions, or a sense of peace. I usually wont touch something if I don't recognize what it is. Touching something is usually accompanied by thoughts about it and its shape, texture, hot or cold, whether it is safe or not.

Thoughts - I was at work doing my job when all of a sudden I started fantasizing about our new receptionist, totally shifted away from my job in the present and I forgot what I was doing, I let it talk to me over and over until I seen how ridiculous it was and then I was able to get focused again. People questions about future events that have nothing to do with present experience of now, happens all day long at work. I have been caught up in their questions to where it wastes my time, costs me money. In my experience planning can happen with ideas popping up, but thinking on and on about them is just imagination. I forgot to get gas Monday morning, so thought arises giving me a hard time about that and then I thought I don't need this...

Is there anything else here, anything at all, to experience other than these 6 aspects?

I only thought of one and that is intuition, but then I thought intuition only appears to rise like thought so Im thinking it is mind made also. in my experience I do not see anything other than theses six aspects, if there was where would it be and what is it? not experienced here.

Is there anything (other than these 6 aspects) that you can know of or be aware of at any moment?

I sat with this for quite awhile, when I'm in deep sleep there's absolutely nothing, so no one could experience, its not experienceable. Other than that I see nothing else.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

You did a nice inquiry :)

>>> one doubt came up today, the doubt was saying that I'm too consumed in thought to ever see, smell, touch, taste, feel and experience life the way it truly is.

There is truth in this. But thinking can be very useful too. But there is a big difference using thoughts for a purpose, to plan something, or to think through how to solve a problem, and selfing thoughts. As you have nicely discovered we spend most of our time immersed in made-up stories, in mental conceptualization, fabrication, in fiction.

Its like I've never had a life, it has been almost completely dominated by a fictitious ME.

Yes :) Thoughts interpret everything according to a ME. What this means about me, what can I get from this, is it dangerous for me, is it pleasurable for me, what others think of me, if I like this or not, etc. Everything revolves around me :)

Thoughts - I was at work doing my job when all of a sudden I started fantasizing about our new receptionist, totally shifted away from my job in the present and I forgot what I was doing, I let it talk to me over and over until I seen how ridiculous it was and then I was able to get focused again

Nice catch. This is the matrix :) a virtual reality. There is the actual reality here-now, but mentally there is a totally different time and space is created (out of the thin air) and when it happens, 99% of the time, we believe it to be reality itself. So we mistake the made-up fantasy for reality.

But there is a possibility to stay conscious of the fact that this is just a mental fabrication and not reality. So these mental movies don’t have to go away, it’s enough to see them for what they are – not the here-and-now experience, not reality, but a mental fabrication. This is just a shift in perception.

I only thought of one and that is intuition, but then I thought intuition only appears to rise like thought so Im thinking it is mind made also. in my experience I do not see anything other than theses six aspects, if there was where would it be and what is it? not experienced here.

Yes, intuition is just another thought :)

So there is either the experience of the 5 senses, or the imagined versions of them, what we can call as thought or imagination.

Sensations - are felt in the body quite frequently in regards to anxiety here, and along with them are fears. This body and brain have learned to fear certain sensations, adrenaline rushes, racing heartbeats, tightness in the chest, tingling, dry mouth, dizziness. There's usually a storyline of death associated and a need to fix it.

Just notice, when this fear reaction is turned on, what is it a reaction to? Isn’t it a reaction to a mental movie? A movie that shows a future about a me, being hurt or harmed? A mental movie about something bad happening to me?

When this fearful movie is happening, the body in that very moment is not hurt 99.999% of the time. Even if you are working with dangerous chemicals, in that very moment when this fabricated virtual reality is on, the body is safe and sound. Can you see that?

If there were an actual harm at that moment, there weren’t be time to play and replay mental scenarios of harm, isn’t it? You would be busy with dealing with what is?

The interesting thing about fear is that when a mental movie is on, there is no actual hurt going on in that moment, just in fantasy land. So the fear is a reaction to that mental movie, not to reality.

And when there is an actual harm happening, then there is no time to be afraid, since the body is busy with responding to what is going on in that moment. All attention is focused there. There is no time to mentally fabricate a fearful movie.

Can you see that whenever you are afraid that adrenaline rush, racing heartbeat, tightness in the chest is a reaction to the mind-movie you are watching and mistaking for reality in that moment?

Vivien

[justthis]

Just notice, when this fear reaction is turned on, what is it a reaction to? Isn’t it a reaction to a mental movie? A movie that shows a future about a me, being hurt or harmed? A mental movie about something bad happening to me?

Yes! I also notice when I'm standing under a car (I work for Toyota) undercoating, that a mental movie begins to play about the car falling on me and not seeing Lizzy anymore, then fear grips me and I want out from under the car. Also when I'm up in high places or where there is a definite drop off the movies get quite intense and the fear even more so, I was with someone who was driving us up to the top of a mountain about 2 years ago, the road was quite angled going upwards with drop offs on one side of the road, another thing was I wasn't in control of the car which was upsetting, the movie became so intense and the fear gripped me so tightly I told them to stop the car and let me out, I walked back down the hill and they left me there while they went up the mountain, I was afraid id be attacked by an animal, movie after movie played all the way down the mountain as I walked. "Nothing happened in the present moment", there was just a driving to the top of the mountain, but the mental movie was a total fiction, a story in the mind. Fear is definitely a reaction to the mental movie, and then the mental movie continues to play until I have shifted back to the present (I like to call home). There seems to be a pattern behind these movies (how they come up in the first place) which is always present no matter what the movie is about, what triggers the movies in the first place? I find the movies unnecessary, fear can still arise naturally and actions taken, but without the amusement park affect of the movies which isn't so amusing at times. I could probably recall thousands of scenarios where I tossed away an opportunity because a fabricated movie, like terminates eating away at a tree, leaving nothing.

When this fearful movie is happening, the body in that very moment is not hurt 99.999% of the time. Even if you are working with dangerous chemicals, in that very moment when this fabricated virtual reality is on, the body is safe and sound. Can you see that?

Yes I can see that very clearly presently, but when I'm really locked into the dream/fabrication its impossible to see that I'm safe. But here lately in this last year I don't slip into some movies as easily as others anymore and if I do I recognize I'm in one and it usually dissipates sooner rather than later. Even though the movies are fabrications the body still feels the sensations and everything else associated with them. So if the fabrications/movies are fiction then fictional movies are using the bodies natural resources like the 6 aspects. So the fabrications "don't" really have their own real 6 aspects. So how can fictional movies use the body's resources?? I'm seeing the movies as real or a reality.

Can you see that whenever you are afraid that adrenaline rush, racing heartbeat, tightness in the chest is a reaction to the mind-movie you are watching and mistaking for reality in that moment?

Yes I think its real and it appears real in storyland, but it is NOT "what is now".
All of the adrenaline rushes, racing heartbeat, tightness in the chest, sweating, dizziness are normal reactions that occur when there really is a threat, but an anxiety disorder like mine is like a misunderstanding that the brain creates, a false alarm.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

So how can fictional movies use the body's resources?? I'm seeing the movies as real or a reality.

Yes. In that moment you believe that you are actually seeing THE future itself. And if you believe that what you see is the future, that it’s actually going to happen, of course you get afraid :)

Now let’s go a step further. Have you noticed that there is a mental-movie most of the time? Not just when there is fear or anxiety?

Just notice, how often you are not with what is here now, but rather replaying a past conversation with someone, or thinking of being somewhere else then here, or fantasizing how good it will be to get home and eat your dinner?

When you are standing in a line, are you standing in a line? Or you are thinking about some other time than THIS now, or some other place than THIS here?

When you are driving, are you just driving? Or you are mentally some other place and some other time?

When you are having dinner, are you with the experience of the colours, shapes, tastes, smells, textures of the food? Or…. ???? Or you are mentally focusing on the story of MY (Stephen’s) life?

Vivien

[Vivien]

Here is a help how to deal with those mental movies of fearful scenarios when they appear.

First, notice that there is a mental movie going on. Often, you might not see the movie, you just only feel the effect of it, and that is fear or anxiety. So when you notice fear/anxiety/muscle contractions, as yourself: What is it that I’m believing right now? – So this way, you can discover that a movie is on.

Next, focus your attention onto the here and now experience. Notice the big discrepancy between what the movie shows, and what is actual reality. Notice what is actually here now, and what is imagination. Making this distinction is essential, since this how you can see that whatever is happening in the movie, is NOT happening here NOW. Not now. Not real.

The here and now reality is ALWAYS much kinder and safer than your beliefs and imagination :)

Then, ask yourself: Am I safe now? Is the body safe and sound in this very moment?

Not in the next moment, but in this very one. The only moment that ever real is this very one that is happening now. So the only moment I have to deal with is what is here now. Everything else is just fiction.

And notice that in this very moment the body is safe and sound, totally unharmed. And this moment… and then this moment…. check this moment by moment. You are only ever dealing with this moment, just this :)

Vivien

[justthis]

Now let’s go a step further. Have you noticed that there is a mental-movie most of the time? Not just when there is fear or anxiety?

A picture movie just came up just now that when I was reading and watching videos I was totally unaware of all the mental movie playing, I thought the more knowledge the better...LOL
Yes mental movies pop up constantly and sometimes they are there before I see them, sneaky buggers!! and they absolutely can be about anything.

Just notice, how often you are not with what is here now, but rather replaying a past conversation with someone, or thinking of being somewhere else then here, or fantasizing how good it will be to get home and eat your dinner?

Is this inquiry done by myself or Life? if there isn't a fictional ME then no inquiry would be needed it seems.
This ME is like a toxic ghost it pulls you into full flight from reality. The "what is now view" is constantly taken over by this ensemble of fantasies, song and movies. But frequently the "what is now" view is seen, vibrant colors, its like everything stops happening to ME all of a sudden, that's home...there's no me present in what is now. its impossible to explain and who would want to?...as far back as I can remember I cannot say that I've ever really been home for any period of time. I'm actually feeling pretty grateful right now that this opportunity is here, thx Vivien..
Its Lizzy birthday on the 25th of this month and she's been trying to get me to take her crabbing on our vacation, she's Filipino and loves fishing and cooking. I was out today buying her a new crab pot and I was fantasizing about how she's gonna love this and I'm gonna be her hero and all that and then it dawned on me that these fantasies never turn out like you think they will. But I TOTALLY missed out on what was going on around me while I was busy fantasizing. This is constantly happening daily!! I used to think this is how life is...

When you are standing in a line, are you standing in a line? Or you are thinking about some other time than THIS now, or some other place than THIS here?

Sometimes there is just a standing in line, but its not long before I see or not see the movies are ON.

When you are driving, are you just driving? Or you are mentally some other place and some other time?

Sometimes there is just driving, but I do get distracted by song or some fantasy that is playin in the head about getting back together with the boys in the band or some attractive woman walking or driving and that fantasy might play for awhile until there's a shift back to here now. Or an accident on the road I might think about that for awhile and then tell others about it.

When you are having dinner, are you with the experience of the colors, shapes, tastes, smells, textures of the food? Or…. ???? Or you are mentally focusing on the story of MY (Stephen’s) life?

As I was eating dinner tonight I noticed the smell, the shape, the texture and color of the food, but I also noticed the flowers in the garden, my 2 cats being cats... but as usual the movies in the mind were on. I don't know if its an optical illusion but everything seemed to be here and not be here at the same time tonight quite a few times, I keep seeing that. I don't know if its true or not but optimolgists and the neurosciences say that we never have been actually able to see with the eyes, they say photon light comes in through the eyes and into the retina and from there the brain processes and then projects what we see as a world, but this in itself is just another story that covers over what is now. Stephens Life??? the only life that Stephen ever had was as a fictional movie playing endlessly with occasional relief from the movies. Life doesn't need a Stephen to be life, when I'm not there life just is. Stephen is just another label that I answer to when my name is called out.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

You replied quite quickly. I would like to ask you to do inquire with each post for a whole day. I understand, there can be an eagerness to reply quickly to advance with the inquiry, but please don’t do that. Spend as much time as you can every day looking at that day’s pointers, again and again and again. You can have one or two longer sessions, but also please try to incorporate several small (10 seconds each) mini session into your daily life.

And when the reply seems to be clear, look more. Look at the same thing again and again.
It’s this continuous and repeated looking and looking again and again, what brings about the realization.

Our aim is not a quick looking with an intellectual understanding. We are going much deeper, to experiential recognition. For that to happen, repeated, deep looking is needed.

I'm actually feeling pretty grateful right now that this opportunity is here, thx Vivien..

you are welcome :)

But I TOTALLY missed out on what was going on around me while I was busy fantasizing. This is constantly happening daily!! I used to think this is how life is...

Yes, this is constantly on. Most of the time attention is on simulation of mentally invented movies instead on actual life.

V: When you are standing in a line, are you standing in a line? Or you are thinking about some other time than THIS now, or some other place than THIS here?

S: Sometimes there is just a standing in line, but its not long before I see or not see the movies are ON.

V: When you are driving, are you just driving? Or you are mentally some other place and some other time?

S: Sometimes there is just driving….

Have you tested these after you read the questions or you replied from memory? Please never reply from memory. If you do that you just write down the current mental story that is going on. What you need to do is to check this in actual life. Look at this when you are actually driving or waiting in a line.

You say, sometimes you are just waiting in a line or just driving… I bet those sometimes are extremely rare. :) If you start looking at this in a moment-to-moment daily life, you will be very surprise how rare those are. Maybe once a year :) or less…

I don't know if its true or not but optimolgists and the neurosciences say that we never have been actually able to see with the eyes, they say photon light comes in through the eyes and into the retina and from there the brain processes and then projects what we see as a world, but this in itself is just another story that covers over what is now.

Yes, this might be true, and yet just another story. What we need to do here is to let these stories at the sideline, and just notice what is actually here now, in the present experience.

Stephens Life??? the only life that Stephen ever had was as a fictional movie playing endlessly with occasional relief from the movies. Life doesn't need a Stephen to be life, when I'm not there life just is. Stephen is just another label that I answer to when my name is called out.

Is this something you actually see in experience, or is this rather a logical conclusion?

I’m going to ask you spend another day watching thoughts, both mental images and the verbal narrative. Let me know how it goes.

Note: have you seen my second post yesterday about what to do when fear or anxiety is on?

Vivien