Hello Ken,
It seems you have had comprehensive guiding by Stacy and also some guiding from Ilona but you still feel that you aren't clear about there being no separate self as it is thought to be.
Let's see if we can can get further clarity if needed. Would you like to tell me what has been going on for you and what you are not clear about?
Kind regards
Kay
I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
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forgetmenot
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- Location: Australia
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Kay,
Thanks for offering to help. Its not that I am unclear about the about the idea of self being an illusion, its my attraction to thoughts that is causing confusion for me. I am perhaps being unrealistic in my expectations of being immune to jumping on board as they arise. This is most apparent when having arguments with my wife and I immediately take on undesirable patterns such as anger and frustration that are not lessened even when knowing that there is no self to be frustrated or angry. I wonder why I just keep repeating patterns even with the seeming clarity I have around self. Maybe this just how it has to be? When I say "seeming clarity" its like a reservation of sorts as well. I look forward to guidance...Ken
Thanks for offering to help. Its not that I am unclear about the about the idea of self being an illusion, its my attraction to thoughts that is causing confusion for me. I am perhaps being unrealistic in my expectations of being immune to jumping on board as they arise. This is most apparent when having arguments with my wife and I immediately take on undesirable patterns such as anger and frustration that are not lessened even when knowing that there is no self to be frustrated or angry. I wonder why I just keep repeating patterns even with the seeming clarity I have around self. Maybe this just how it has to be? When I say "seeming clarity" its like a reservation of sorts as well. I look forward to guidance...Ken
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forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
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- Location: Australia
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Ken,
You have an expectation that seeing through the idea of a separate self…that the layers of conditioning will also fall away….that the years of how you have identified yourself as “Kenself” will just fall away. There is also the expectation that as there is no self then any emotions, beliefs and reactions should also disappear that keep you identified as a 'me'. Realising ‘no self’ is just a beginning and not an ending. As you can see even from what you wrote that there is identification with confusion and with anger and frustration...so even though 'no self' has been realised...identification continues.
What now needs to be seen through is the conditioning that keeps pulling you back into identification. Years and years of conditioning that you have identified yourself with/as, won’t fall away over night. This process – yo-yoing between clarity and re-identification - can take several years. This phase (embodiment) includes looking at old trauma’s/experiences/patterns that trigger reactions so as to unhook yourself from the stories that have emotions and beliefs attached to them, because this keeps the idea that there is something happening to a someone ie a ‘me’….which is identification. There are many resources that can help you with this process and this is why it is a good idea to be part of the LU Facebook groups as you can ask others what processes and resources they have found and used, that has helped them to unhook themselves from the conditioned mind that still believes it is a ‘me’ that life is happening to. So it’s not about self improvement, it is about seeing that you are not your conditioning, that these layers have been superimposed and are believed to be a ‘me’. Knowing that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own makes it is easier to clear.
Continuing to LOOK is also highly recommended, but it’s not about looking to see if you can find a self. So don’t try and find the elephant in the room. How do you see the elephant if it’s not there? How do you see an absence of it? There is no elephant in the room. Instead look at what is. What is here underneath all thinking? Not conceptual, not an image?
What is here right now?
Move attention from mind images and thoughts to actuality, this very moment, what are you noticing?
Kay
You have an expectation that seeing through the idea of a separate self…that the layers of conditioning will also fall away….that the years of how you have identified yourself as “Kenself” will just fall away. There is also the expectation that as there is no self then any emotions, beliefs and reactions should also disappear that keep you identified as a 'me'. Realising ‘no self’ is just a beginning and not an ending. As you can see even from what you wrote that there is identification with confusion and with anger and frustration...so even though 'no self' has been realised...identification continues.
What now needs to be seen through is the conditioning that keeps pulling you back into identification. Years and years of conditioning that you have identified yourself with/as, won’t fall away over night. This process – yo-yoing between clarity and re-identification - can take several years. This phase (embodiment) includes looking at old trauma’s/experiences/patterns that trigger reactions so as to unhook yourself from the stories that have emotions and beliefs attached to them, because this keeps the idea that there is something happening to a someone ie a ‘me’….which is identification. There are many resources that can help you with this process and this is why it is a good idea to be part of the LU Facebook groups as you can ask others what processes and resources they have found and used, that has helped them to unhook themselves from the conditioned mind that still believes it is a ‘me’ that life is happening to. So it’s not about self improvement, it is about seeing that you are not your conditioning, that these layers have been superimposed and are believed to be a ‘me’. Knowing that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own makes it is easier to clear.
Continuing to LOOK is also highly recommended, but it’s not about looking to see if you can find a self. So don’t try and find the elephant in the room. How do you see the elephant if it’s not there? How do you see an absence of it? There is no elephant in the room. Instead look at what is. What is here underneath all thinking? Not conceptual, not an image?
What is here right now?
Move attention from mind images and thoughts to actuality, this very moment, what are you noticing?
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hello Kay,
Thanks for coming back to me so quickly. I've just realized you are just across the road from NZ. What you have said is very clear and also very helpful. You are so right! These layers need to fall away and there is 65 years of conditioning to fall away. I will hit the facebook page and start to join in with this community, I have felt the need to connect. The sense of community and interacting with like minded people is important.
Hey thanks so much for your pointers, take care...Ken
Thanks for coming back to me so quickly. I've just realized you are just across the road from NZ. What you have said is very clear and also very helpful. You are so right! These layers need to fall away and there is 65 years of conditioning to fall away. I will hit the facebook page and start to join in with this community, I have felt the need to connect. The sense of community and interacting with like minded people is important.
Hey thanks so much for your pointers, take care...Ken
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forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Ken,
Yes, I just am just across the road! :)
The only way you can join LU Facebook pages is to answer the final questions in total ie to answer each question in its totality. I know that you have already done this once...but as some of your responses didn't cover the totality of the question, your thread was unable to be confirmed. And what being confirmed means...is that you have actually had the shift, because we don't want to finalise the thread if this isn't actually the case, as this would be a disservice to you. The other part of getting your thread confirmed is to ensure that the guide is pointing accurately so that a shift in perception happens. So, I will post the final questions again...and if you have a mind to, you can answer them and I will then get other guides to read it and they will either confirm that they can see you have had a shift or they will ask you further questions. Anyway the choice is yours.
Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
6) Anything to add?
Kind regards,
Kay
Yes, I just am just across the road! :)
The only way you can join LU Facebook pages is to answer the final questions in total ie to answer each question in its totality. I know that you have already done this once...but as some of your responses didn't cover the totality of the question, your thread was unable to be confirmed. And what being confirmed means...is that you have actually had the shift, because we don't want to finalise the thread if this isn't actually the case, as this would be a disservice to you. The other part of getting your thread confirmed is to ensure that the guide is pointing accurately so that a shift in perception happens. So, I will post the final questions again...and if you have a mind to, you can answer them and I will then get other guides to read it and they will either confirm that they can see you have had a shift or they will ask you further questions. Anyway the choice is yours.
Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
6) Anything to add?
Kind regards,
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Morning Kay,
Again thank you for getting back to me. Forget me nots. I spent 25 years in OZ that puts of smile on my face.
I have forgotten the rules with the quotes and can't seem to change the font colour. I have put a line space between your question and my answer, apologies if I haven't done this correctly.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
To be perfectly honest I don't remember. Its so easy to ascribe so many epiphanies to the tipping point but these are come and go experiences. I do recall a post I sent to Stacy which I think was walking along a bush path and just seeing, this I do remember
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
As a traditional guy from day to day I do my best to provide myself with nourishment, to provide my wife and family with food and shelter. Intention is there. A sense of, this is what a father and husband does. But who is responsible if I can or cannot. Life is just happening
6) Anything to add?
I haven't bothered to look at what I have written excuse spelling grammar etc and a big Thank you!!!!
Again thank you for getting back to me. Forget me nots. I spent 25 years in OZ that puts of smile on my face.
I have forgotten the rules with the quotes and can't seem to change the font colour. I have put a line space between your question and my answer, apologies if I haven't done this correctly.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?There is no sperate entity at all, anywhere in any shape or form....There appeared to be in the past for sure. This has been seen to be an illusion
The illusion of a separate self is the belief that "I" is a real entity, located somewhere in my body that is attempting to control the seeming outside world so that only the events that it finds pleasing happen. In the experience of identifying with the illusion of separate self everything that happens brings about an emotional response that only reinforces the sense of separation whether is is perceived as either good (for me/separate I) or bad (for me/separate I). Through my enquiry I know emphatically that there is no separate self.. There are still many times that I find myself acting out patterns but there is always the knowing of the illusion of separate self
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?When I started the dialogue I think I was looking for some validation for what I had found through different inquiry over the years but which became more solidified after reading Iluna's book. The dialogue plus the work I did with Ilona really supported and gave quite a few aha moments. The last couple of days have been about "Looking" Kay's message to me a couple of days ago and the watching Ilona of You Tube 2 days ago allowed me to turn another corner.
To be perfectly honest I don't remember. Its so easy to ascribe so many epiphanies to the tipping point but these are come and go experiences. I do recall a post I sent to Stacy which I think was walking along a bush path and just seeing, this I do remember
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.It appears that we have free will/ intention choice and control, but if there is no me/I who is there to have free will, choice and control? I will give a fairly recent example. I was in India 2 years ago doing "The last Satsang". I'm in my AirBNB room and my phone rang. My old boss from Australia says Kenny we have a job in Townsville if you're interested. I hadn't spoken to him for 5 years I wasn't looking for work...Things just happen!! Because I said yes that was also something happening. We do appear to make plans and they happen or they don't happen but did it need a Me/I for it happen..Nope
As a traditional guy from day to day I do my best to provide myself with nourishment, to provide my wife and family with food and shelter. Intention is there. A sense of, this is what a father and husband does. But who is responsible if I can or cannot. Life is just happening
6) Anything to add?
I haven't bothered to look at what I have written excuse spelling grammar etc and a big Thank you!!!!
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Kay,
I just see that I have been able to Join the FB channel for LU. So I just started looking at this video not looking at the name. but wow I went "this lady is Australian" and then I checked the name.. Coincidence I reckon its you. Life just happens LOL.
When you laugh I laugh my head off!!!
Cheers....Ken
I just see that I have been able to Join the FB channel for LU. So I just started looking at this video not looking at the name. but wow I went "this lady is Australian" and then I checked the name.. Coincidence I reckon its you. Life just happens LOL.
When you laugh I laugh my head off!!!
Cheers....Ken
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forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hello Ken!
Loved your responses to the questions and laughed at you laughing your head off! Thank you for sharing!
I will now ask a couple of guides to have a look at your thread. They will check to make sure all bases have been covered, thereby bringing the clarity of there being no separate self as it is thought to be. This may take several days....I will let you know if they confirm, or if they have further questions for you. In the mean time...keep on laughing! :)
With kind regards
Kay
Loved your responses to the questions and laughed at you laughing your head off! Thank you for sharing!
I will now ask a couple of guides to have a look at your thread. They will check to make sure all bases have been covered, thereby bringing the clarity of there being no separate self as it is thought to be. This may take several days....I will let you know if they confirm, or if they have further questions for you. In the mean time...keep on laughing! :)
With kind regards
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Kay,
The video was only 10 mins in when, I said that. I kept laughing
Right to the end, beautiful stuff. I looked for your FB page but couldn't find anything, would it be OK if I joined? Thanks..
Ken
The video was only 10 mins in when, I said that. I kept laughing
Right to the end, beautiful stuff. I looked for your FB page but couldn't find anything, would it be OK if I joined? Thanks..
Ken
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forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Ken,
Yes, by all mean we can connect via Facebook. I have sent you a private message (pm) via the forum. You will receive an email notifying you of it with a link to the pm. The pm gives you links to my FB pages.
Kind regards
Kay
Yes, by all mean we can connect via Facebook. I have sent you a private message (pm) via the forum. You will receive an email notifying you of it with a link to the pm. The pm gives you links to my FB pages.
Kind regards
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
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forgetmenot
- Posts: 6059
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 am
- Location: Australia
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hey Ken,
Congratulation! Welcome to LU! The other guides have come back with a big thumbs up and confirmed your thread! What will happen within the next day or two is that you will receive a PM from the forum inviting you to join LU Facebook groups. The PM will contain the links and information needed, as well as other bits and pieces. We shall meet there as well.
Kind regards
Kay
Congratulation! Welcome to LU! The other guides have come back with a big thumbs up and confirmed your thread! What will happen within the next day or two is that you will receive a PM from the forum inviting you to join LU Facebook groups. The PM will contain the links and information needed, as well as other bits and pieces. We shall meet there as well.
Kind regards
Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Kay,
Fantastic...A big thanks to you Stacy and Ilona...
See you there
Fantastic...A big thanks to you Stacy and Ilona...
See you there
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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search
Hi Ken
You're welcome! I was following along here.. Welcome!
Thank you, Kay!
Loving,
You're welcome! I was following along here.. Welcome!
Thank you, Kay!
Loving,
~ Stacy
"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."
~ Adyashanti
"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."
~ Adyashanti
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