Mike11

[Mike11]

Hello again Stacy,

Time is interesting and this was an interesting exercise. I have had hints of time as concept breaking down before. Good to take a real look at it.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No, there is awareness. It doesn’t move along a line of time. It just is. It is not standing still. And it is not moving. There is change but there is not past and future. So the idea of change, being so bound up with the idea of time, don’t really fit. But it is not standing still either. Confusing to describe. Easier just to see :)

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No there is no boundary like that. There is experience of things changing. But not discreet packages of moments.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

Not boundaries between events. More awareness of flow….For example, there is change in felt sensations. But cant divide it up in one event following another. Can only do that in hindsight in thought content, not in direct experience.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Fast and slow don’t come into it. Awareness isn’t fast or slow. There is no moving of a present moment. There is awareness, that is not moving, but it aint still either haha.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No

How long does the ‘now’ last?

This isn’t really answerable.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

Well it doesn’t.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Well how can there be ”past” in direct experience. So if there cant be ”past” in direct experience (only thought content about the ”past”), where is the past? It is thought content.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

It is just thought content. So is the future.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There is direct experience. Time with past, now and future, don’t work as a concept in direct experience. It becomes very clear that past is very much thought content, and so is future. and it is easy enough to make ”now” into thought content also (for example spinning stories about what is going on ”now).

/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Mike,

Very clear answers. Yes, nearly impossible to describe. That's it.

Here is one on Memory, and then we have covered most everything I have. There are other concepts to see through, such as right/wrong, but those aren't done here. We take you as far as no self and then encourage you to continue exploring concepts as they arise. This is just the beginning.

If you will send me an email address in PM (top right, little envelope), I'll send you a document with the pointers you have done and a few you haven't to play with if you like.

When we've done this one, there are some final questions to answer. Then I check with other guides to see if there is anything I missed. After that, you will be invited to Aftercare forms, etc. if you're interested.

Memory Exercise

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?



Loving,

[Mike11]

Hello Stacy!

Reflecting on time and thought content it was very natural to break down memories, so good to do this exercise.

There are other concepts to see through, such as right/wrong, but those aren't done here. We take you as far as no self and then encourage you to continue exploring concepts as they arise. This is just the beginning.

If you will send me an email address in PM (top right, little envelope), I'll send you a document with the pointers you have done and a few you haven't to play with if you like.

Cool :) I’ll send you a PM.

What is memory exactly?

It is thought content. The content can be about direct experience that has been experienced. So thought content about earlier direct experience. But should note be confused with direct experience.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Just thought content. The content being stories and ideas about earlier experience.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Hmm, well, thought content seem to just appear. Probably reasons for it, but it is hard to tease out all those conditions.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

Not really a difference. Except for the content itself.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Well, this is tricky, almost everyone been sure about a memory which turned out to not have happened. Memory is not an exact science, that is for sure.

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Thought content. Stories.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Same as memory, seem to just appear. Its there and it is noticed.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

No difference.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Well that is not known. It can be a qualified guess. But it is not known.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future? If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

Difference in content. Quite often they go hand in hand. Content that is referring to the past and content referring to the future in endless loops. It aint great haha.

/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Hi Mike,

Yes, much of this has thrown me into peals of laughter at times. When/if you listen to "Zooming in On Death," in those recordings, that's me laughing my head off.

So, these are what we call "final questions." Of course, nothing is final. This is just the beginning of questioning everything. Once you reply to this, I will share it with other guides who will look to be sure I didn't miss anything. We may have further questions for you, so that we understand what you are seeing.

One question at a time, quote then reply, the way you've been doing. Thanks!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Mike11]

Hello again Stacy!

Some tricky questions, but good fun trying to pin down answers while not getting too abstract.
Hope you are doing well :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, and it never was. There is awareness. But there is no ”thing” being aware.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Well…so direct experience is going on. Around this direct experience thought content is spinning stories. These stories is easy to get wrapped up in. These stories are often about ”me”. So it is stories about a Mike, who is seeing and feeling things and who have friends and enemies and plans and ambitions and so forth. It is easy enough to be so wrapped up in this ongoing story about Mike that awareness of direct experience is interpreted as: Mike is seeing, Mike is hearing, Mike..Mike..Mike..
Rather than there is seeing going on, there is hearing going on…and so forth.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Still working it out it feels like. A first wave of elation has settled. Things feel quite ordinary now. There is long moments of ”pure awareness” with a sense of lightness and freedom. But just earlier today I was talking a walk and thoughts kept going round and round in my head about a disagreement with a colleague. I kept ”catching it”, seeing it was just stories, asking who is actually upset here, going to awareness…and still it kept starting up again and again. One difference is that there is a knowing now. One image is off a very even surface where things cant stick. It slides off, but sometimes it takes longer for it to slide off. Another image that keeps coming up is from Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner cartoons. Will E. Coyote is running off a cliff. But for quite a while he is running in the air, hovering, then he sees there is no ground under his feet and he falls. Well, I keep seeing that stories are rushing and running, but there is no ground holding them, so they fall. But some of them hoovers for a bit haha.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was in meditation. A sense of awareness being this wast field. Enormous, still but constantly changing. Then a question about what can actually hold this, what can carry this, how can a ”self” do that. It was clear that it is not possible.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Well, in direct experience decisions do not really makes sense. Things are happening and then thought content tend to take credit for it afterwards.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Well, intention is quite a mystery is it not. Cant really describe intention and I have a hard time to give examples from experience. Where in direct experience is intention except for in thought content?

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Ok, this is tricky. As in the question above, where is free will in direct experience? I don’t know how free will and intention actually works. Things are happening. Why and how they are happening seems to be very tricky to get at. Its like the phrases ”free will” and ”intention” are trying to solve a problem but with the wrong tools.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Kind of similar as earlier answers. Things are happening and I cant find the choice in direct experience. It is very obvious that thought content tend to rush in and proclaim that a choose was made and ”I” was the one who made it. But looking, that is not really what is going on.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is a label for the stories that are told which tries to make sense and ”hold down” everything. All the stories about me and them and why that is so and this should be so. That is thoughts trying to control. Its very restrictive.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Got no clue haha. The most convincing theory I know of is that loads of conditions makes things happen and that it is impossible to see them all because it is so complex. But that’s a theory. Things just seem to happen.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Hmm, cant really answer this question. There is no me that is responsible. Cant see a doer, controller, a free will wielding responsible me that is witnessing things and getting things done. Can only find it in stories.

6) Anything to add?

Feel a lot of gratitude. Thanks for al the work with this. It is very helpful. There is a sense that there is a lot more to do. And that is exciting :)

/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Your answers are lovely.

"I don't know" or "It's a mystery" is really all there is to be said. It is, as you say, all just happening.

The Work of Byron Katie can be quite useful in unraveling all those remaining thought stories.

I'm going to run this by other guides now There may be a place or two where they want clarification. We'll see.

Watch this space & also Private Messages.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Mike,

I confess I was in a hurry this morning before work. I could see there is a little more to clarify. Another guide replied, asking:

"It is easy enough to be so wrapped up in this ongoing story about Mike that..."

What is it exactly that can be wrapped up in the ongoing story about Mike?

Is there something separate from the story which could be wrapped up in it?

"I kept ”catching it”, seeing it was just stories, asking who is actually upset here, going to awareness…and still it kept starting up again and again"

What is it that is catching the story?

Is there something standing apart from the story, watching it, and catching it?

And when it cannot catch it, it becomes wrapped in it?

"going to awareness…"

What is it that goes to awareness?

Is there something standing apart from awareness, and going there?

"There is awareness. But there is no ”thing” being aware."
"A sense of awareness being this wast field"

Is this awareness or field separate from what it is aware of (the awared)?

Is there a field / awareness + the story?

Are there two things there? Awareness/filed + story?

Remember the warning earlier not to make "awareness " into some kind of new "self."

Loving,

[Mike11]

Hello again Stacy!

Good questions :) It is really easy to get tripped up using words to try to describe these things.

What is it exactly that can be wrapped up in the ongoing story about Mike?

This is the story told in hindsight trying to explain what’s was going on. There is nothing that is getting wrapped up. There is just thought content consisting of the stories about Mike.

Is there something separate from the story which could be wrapped up in it?

No.

"I kept ”catching it”, seeing it was just stories, asking who is actually upset here, going to awareness…and still it kept starting up again and again" What is it that is catching the story?

Its a convoluted way to describe that there is noticing that a story is running.

Is there something standing apart from the story, watching it, and catching it? And when it cannot catch it, it becomes wrapped in it?

No, there is story, thought content. There is noticing that there is a story going on. The description to be ”wrapped up in it” is a convoluted way to describe that it sometimes takes quite a long time to notice that a story is going on, for example a made up argument.

"going to awareness…"
What is it that goes to awareness?

There is nothing that goes to awareness. Its trying to describe that when it is noticed that a story is running, stuff happens.

Is there something standing apart from awareness, and going there?

No, cant divide it up like that. Not sure what awareness actually is. There is direct experience. I sometimes use the label awareness to describe the experience of direct experience…..jeez, this gets complicated haha.

"There is awareness. But there is no ”thing” being aware."
"A sense of awareness being this wast field" Is this awareness or field separate from what it is aware of (the awared)?

No, the ”wast field” comment tries to describe a sense of wonder, not a literal existing field. And awareness in this case is another word for direct experience.

Is there a field / awareness + the story?Are there two things there? Awareness/filed + story?

There is direct experience. Stories are thought content.

/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Mike. Yes.

Finding that "-ing' verbs work best. Ilona says it is "life life-ing."

when it is noticed that a story is running, stuff happens

Not completely clear about this. Are you saying story & stuff happening are connected or that story causes stuff to Nairn? " Doubtful, but not totally clear.

Again, this is a beginning. Now that you know it's all story, it can take years to unravel the stories. Be patient with yourself.

Stay tuned.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Sorry! typo. Autocorrect "Nairn " should be "happen."

[Mike11]

Hello again Stacy,

"when it is noticed that a story is running, stuff happens"
Not completely clear about this. Are you saying story & stuff happening are connected or that story causes stuff to happen? " Doubtful, but not totally clear.

No that was not very clear :) It is trying to describe that the knowing of there being a story of thought content going on has an effect. For example, a story seem to loose "power" based on knowing it is just a story. So that would be the "stuff happens" reference. At the same time this is a bit of a story in itself :)

Again, this is a beginning. Now that you know it's all story, it can take years to unravel the stories. Be patient with yourself.

Ah, good advice.

/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Hi Mike

It's the weekend & I guess folks are busy. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Thank you,

[Mike11]

Hello Stacy!
No hurry. Hope you are enjoying the weekend :)
/Mike

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Mike!

It's confirmed. You have crossed the Gateless Gatr.

You'll get a PM (upper right corner here) inviting you to join us in Facebook, if you like, where you can meet others, ask questions if anything comes up or just read what others who have crossed the Gate are chatting about.

I am Stacy Ann Clark on Facebook, if you'd like to connect.

It has been a pleasure.

Welcome!

[Mike11]

Thank you for all the time and work you put into this Stacy. It is very appreciated!
Lots of love,
Mike