Is there something more to be seen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

They feel like a contraction - yes, but I am not sure if they are unpleasant. Maybe if they are super strong, but I hadn't that strong emptions to examine. Yes they are similar.

Yes, even pleasant and unpleasant is just labels on the raw sensation. The sensation knows nothing about it being pleasant or not pleasant.

Please experiment with these.

Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

Can you choose to fall asleep?
Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction, etc) of the physical sensation that will arise next?

Can you choose the next emotion, mood, attitude that will arise?

Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hi Vivien,

Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

Aboslutely no. No

Can you choose to fall asleep?

No. No control over this as well.

Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

No

Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction, etc) of the physical sensation that will arise next?

No. Impossible.

Can you choose the next emotion, mood, attitude that will arise?

I thought I could get to feel some emotion, but after looking I see that I can not choose the moment that it will appear nor if it will ever appear.

Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

I can not find such a point. They come as they want. But even if we say - "I will choose the emotion anger"
for example. Then somehow anger comes. Did I really choose the 1st thought? - No. I do not choose even this thought.

Thank you,
Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

I can not find such a point. They come as they want. But even if we say - "I will choose the emotion anger"
for example. Then somehow anger comes. Did I really choose the 1st thought? - No. I do not choose even this thought.

You did a nice investigation :) Now we look into actions.

Please spend as much time as you can in the midst of your daily life observing and noticing how the body moves, how it feels, what it does.

You can notice how the legs are moving as walking happens.
When walking, what do you do in order for the legs to move?
Are you making walking happen, or it just happens automatically and effortlessly?

When you sit down, or stand up, is this something you do, or something that is happening?

Notice all sorts of sensations in the body.
Are you making the sensations happen, or they are there, without anyone or anything making them to be?

When breathing happens, are you making it to happen, or it happens automatically without anyone making it happen?

When preparing food, or eating, washing your hands, typing, brushing your teeth, dressing up, are you making the hands move, or the hands just move by themselves?

Is there a central controller somewhere in the body, from where strings are pulled to lift the arms, and move the body? Or all of it just happening automatically?

Please spend lots of time in the midst of your everyday life observing this.

Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hello Vivien,

When walking, what do you do in order for the legs to move?

The moving is not happening because of a me. It is absolutely automatic.

Are you making walking happen, or it just happens automatically and effortlessly?

Yes, the second one. Absolutely no effort.

When you sit down, or stand up, is this something you do, or something that is happening?

No, this just happens. No doer of this.

Are you making the sensations happen, or they are there, without anyone or anything making them to be?

The sensations come on their own.

When breathing happens, are you making it to happen, or it happens automatically without anyone making it happen?

Not only the breathing. So many processes inside and outside.

When preparing food, or eating, washing your hands, typing, brushing your teeth, dressing up, are you making the hands move, or the hands just move by themselves?

Everything moves on their own. I had a nice experience when I was sleeping. So there werent any thoughts present and I started to turn in the bed and I just watched how the body is moving without a though or without somebody to tell the body "now you should turn the other side". Amazing!

Is there a central controller somewhere in the body, from where strings are pulled to lift the arms, and move the body? Or all of it just happening automatically?

There is no controller. Everythinc happens automatically.

Thank you,

Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

You did a nice looking.

Please sit for some time and just notice how everything is just happening effortlessly.

Look around.
What is being done for colors and shapes to be? Is there anything be done for colors and shapes to be, or they are just there effortlessly?

Listen to the sounds.
What is being done exactly for the sounds to be?
And when the attention is on a sound, what is being done to know the sound? Is there any doing? Or it’s just known effortlessly?

Now shift the focus on FEELING the body.
What is being done exactly for the body to be?
Is there any effort in being?
Or the body just IS, effortlessly?

Focus on the sensations of the hands.
What is being done for the sensations to be?
Aren’t the sensations happens effortlessly?

Look at the hands.
What is being done exactly for the image of the hand to be, to exist?
Is there a you making the image of the hands happen?
Is there any effort in seeing?

Now notice thoughts.
What is being done for thoughts to be?
Is there any effort for thoughts to appear? Or they just appear effortlessly?

What is not happening effortlessly and needs a doer?

Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hello Vivien,
I investigated all the questions, but the last one was really good and I needed some time on it, so I skipped one day.

What is being done for colors and shapes to be? Is there anything be done for colors and shapes to be, or they are just there effortlessly?

Nothing. They are there effortlessly.

What is being done exactly for the sounds to be?
And when the attention is on a sound, what is being done to know the sound? Is there any doing? Or it’s just known effortlessly?

Nothing, They are there effortlessly.

Same for everything.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs a doer?

This one... Well I can not see something that need effort. However I have the feeling of doing so many things with effort.
Everything I think I did and the whole idea of life has been an effort. So I wanted to find what makes the difference between the knowing that nothing needs effort and the feeling of effort I have for many many things.

So I see that there is an idea that I am responsible for many things. For example - TOP Health, Security, Finances and other things as well. So there is always the urge to do sometihng or I might will loose control. So I investigated who is the one who needs this control. I can not find it, but I would like to spend more time on this question or similar questions as well.

Thank you,

Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

but the last one was really good and I needed some time on it, so I skipped one day.

That’s OK. You did a nice investigation.

So I see that there is an idea that I am responsible for many things. For example - TOP Health, Security, Finances and other things as well. So there is always the urge to do sometihng or I might will loose control. So I investigated who is the one who needs this control. I can not find it, but I would like to spend more time on this question or similar questions as well.

Next time, when it seems that something happens with effort, pause for a moment, and investigate:

Is this apparent effort is done by someone, or effort is appearing on its own, totally effortlessly?
So, isn’t effort itself happens effortlessly?

So there is always the urge to do sometihng or I might will loose control.

Is this urge is done by someone, or the urge to do something appears effortlessly?

When the thought appears “I have to do something, or I might lose control” – is this thought thought by someone, or this thought appeared automatically and effortlessly?

In order to lose control, there has to be someone who is losing. So first you have it, for to be able to lose it :)

So is there someone in control at any time?
Is the thought “I need to do something otherwise I might lose control” in control? Is this thought the controller?
Is the thought I the controller?
Is the thought Kamen the controller?
The seeming ‘voice in the head’ is the controller?
What is it that is in charge? Is there anything at all?

Can something be lost (control), which never has been?

So I see that there is an idea that I am responsible for many things. For example - TOP Health, Security, Finances and other things as well.

What/who does health happen TO?
Is there someone being healthy?

What is it exactly that is responsible for health?
The thought I?
The thought Kamen?
The seeming ‘voice in the head’?

Is the thought “I am responsible for my health” is thought by someone intentionally, or this thought appeared automatically and effortlessly?

Just notice, how many times you have thoughts along the lines of “I am responsible for my health” or “I want to be healthy”. Isn’t this just a repetitive thought pattern that is playing itself out again and again, in loops?

Is this a new thought, or an old one? A recycled one?

Investigate the security, finances in the similar way as above. Let me know what you find.

What is the experience of responsibility? Go to the direct experience of it. What do you find?

I’ve given you lots of questions, so feel free to investigate them for several days. Please be thorough.

Vivien

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

Are you still with me? I know I said you can spend some time with it, but it has been a while since my last post.

Please give me a feedback. Thank you,
Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hello Vivien,

Merry Christmas.

I am 100% with you. Those are very good questions so I just wanted to investigate them. I will answer you soon. I also sometimes feel like I do not want to have some question going on but just to let everything as it is and just be as what is already here. Also I do not want to overlook them.

Thank you for asking!

Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

All right, you don't have to rush. Just now and then please give me a feedback where you are at, and that you are still with me.

Happy holidays,
Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hello Vivien,

Happy New year!

So, sorry that my answers are going to be the same, but there is nothing more to say to it.

I worked a lot with the questions, but I stayed a lot without them. Actually one time I was sitting and something came.

There was a seeker, there was a doer,

now there are only the lights of the Christmas Tree and the noices from the oven. What a peace. But who feels it?

Is this apparent effort is done by someone, or effort is appearing on its own, totally effortlessly?

No. They are done effortlessly.

So, isn’t effort itself happens effortlessly?

Yes!

So there is always the urge to do sometihng or I might will loose control.

Is this urge is done by someone, or the urge to do something appears effortlessly?

Yes, this I ist just an old energy, but nothing more. There is no such an I. It comes effortlessly.

When the thought appears “I have to do something, or I might lose control” – is this thought thought by someone, or this thought appeared automatically and effortlessly?

No "Me". It comes effortlessly.

So is there someone in control at any time?
Is the thought “I need to do something otherwise I might lose control” in control? Is this thought the controller?
Is the thought I the controller?
Is the thought Kamen the controller?
The seeming ‘voice in the head’ is the controller?
What is it that is in charge? Is there anything at all?

No, Nope, no, no, no, no. Nothing is in cahrge!

Can something be lost (control), which never has been?

No!

What/who does health happen TO?
Is there someone being healthy?

What is health? No.

What is it exactly that is responsible for health?
The thought I?
The thought Kamen?
The seeming ‘voice in the head’?

Nothing really. No, No and NO!

Is the thought “I am responsible for my health” is thought by someone intentionally, or this thought appeared automatically and effortlessly?

It comes automatically and the interesting thing is that it will only come, if there is an another thought, that is "me"- thought. If the last one is not there, the 1st won't come or will vanish asap.

Just notice, how many times you have thoughts along the lines of “I am responsible for my health” or “I want to be healthy”. Isn’t this just a repetitive thought pattern that is playing itself out again and again, in loops?

Those are patterns yes, that come for another patterns. Nothing real! Thanks God! :D

Is this a new thought, or an old one? A recycled one?

Almost all are old thoughts.

Investigate the security, finances in the similar way as above. Let me know what you find.

Same answers.

What is the experience of responsibility? Go to the direct experience of it. What do you find?

I find an old memories that stick and make feeling of responsibility for someone. But both could not be there as well.
In the direct experience there is no responsibility and somebody that has responsibility.


Thank you!

Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

You did a nice investigation.

There was a seeker, there was a doer,
now there are only the lights of the Christmas Tree and the noices from the oven. What a peace. But who feels it?

Look for the feeler. Where is it? Is there a feeler separate from the felt? Or there is only whatever is felt?

Can you find a feeler inside the body?

What is feeling the body?
Is there anything separate from the sensations called ‘body’, feeling it from a distance? Or there are only the sensations in experience, but without a feeler?

I find an old memories that stick and make feeling of responsibility for someone. But both could not be there as well.
In the direct experience there is no responsibility and somebody that has responsibility.

Yes. So responsibility is only ever appear as a thought as part of the story ABOUT Kamen, right?

Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hello Vivien,

sorry for the fast answer but that was not really a question. I do not ask this. like a rhetorical question. Sorry for not making this clear.
About the responsibility - I investigated this a lot. Yes, it appears only if there is someone to whom it appears.

It is very interesting. I don't only just vanish. It is like those things never existed. As the me is gone, it is like the memory of it is erased. No seeking, no doing, no trying, not a past, because no one is intered in the past, nor for the future.
Please don't get me wrong, but that is not hundred percent reality, but it happens every day.

thank you,

Kamen

[Vivien]

Hi Kamen,

All right.

Can you say with a 100% certainty that there has been a shift from an intellectual understanding of there being no separate self to an experiential recognition of it?

Can you point to the part in our inquiry when the shift happened?

How’s does it FEEL to see this?

What has changed in normal everyday experience since the start of this conversation?
What hasn’t changed?

What is the main difference?

Vivien

[Kamenkr]

Hi Vivien,

I could not answer you fast, so I took an extra day.

Can you say with a 100% certainty that there has been a shift from an intellectual understanding of there being no separate self to an experiential recognition of it?

I really can't find Kamen and this is not intellectual, but because you ask, I have to tell you that I also can not lie,
about the fact, that there are times, when this old habitual energy arises and the belive of the separate self kinda
comes like a cloud.

What I find is not only that there is no character, but there is actually nothing at all. I mean, everything that appears is also nothing - life, birth, age, cahracters, people... everything is nothing. Just concepts. So all those concepts are being doropped and then a stillnes appears.

Can you point to the part in our inquiry when the shift happened?

I can not point one single sentence. I think, it happened gradually. It went deeper and deeper.

How’s does it FEEL to see this?

More peaceful, stable, sleep is much better, more energy, some times with very deep relaxation. But all of this is also nothing. I feel also that I do not know anything and I could not know anything. There is less drama and the HEARTH is fuller than before. Also the need to achieve something or to get something is also much less.

What has changed in normal everyday experience since the start of this conversation?
What hasn’t changed?

I think I mentioned this above. What has not changed - Maybe some conclusions, that I saw before, for example, that there could be DESTRUCTION of thoughts, because if they are seen trough another lens, they vanish and this is not an effort. Also the knowing of the "I" which is not personal and pure. Here I learned that this is a kind of a trap, because there could be a seeking of this, but this can not be found or reached.

What is the main difference?

The deep understanding, that everything that comes is not personal. That there is no doer.


Thank you,

Kamen