Second try

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:14 am

Because of the language barrier, I cannot tell if your last post was asking me to respond, or if you're saying that you'll post again after you've done the experiment again. If you didn't have any extra questions, I'll simply wait until you've posted your notes about the repeat of the experiment.
I tried to ask, if you want me to do this experiment:
(I just make sure that this is the experiment)
(#2) Please go out to a social event or some kind of activity with a person whom you consider one of your best male friends. Do not attempt this assignment with a female friend, as it will add too many complications.

Make sure you have at least a few hours with this friend.

Now here is the challenging part: whenever your friend speaks, you must listen with all of your attention. You must give him you full and undivided attention. There is no need to stare or lean towards him. Just relax and pay pure, complete attention. As you may discover, it's actually the easiest thing you can do, because when you do it perfectly it's like you're not doing anything at all.

If he asks you why you're listening so carefully, tell him that somebody on the internet said that we never really notice how interesting our friends are until we actually listen to them. This is true, by the way!

Do not do this as “self-help.” This is not self-help. This is discovery. If you are doing this for yourself it will not work. Forget your self, though, and this can work.

After your outing, when you return home and are alone, make some notes about what you remember your mind doing (or not) doing. Your body's reactions are not important in this case.
Anyway I want to ask something else:
I know that some people refer to this kind of “one-on-one” as a “duel,” but I do not. We are not dueling; we are collaborating. You discover things and I discover things.

As for permanently freeing yourself from beliefs, that is up to you. I cannot free you; only you can free you. More to the point, I can only take you so far. I have become liberated from many beliefs, including some that caused me endless suffering. But there is still room for further liberation.
I understand... but I am looking for anything for "seeing there's no me".
I know that the final step is up to me... but the question is, if you can show me how to do?


It seems that my spiritual buddy s can see "there's no me". And there's a shift - they can see life "without their me".
No dreaming about hope in the future, no doubts about the future, no regrets for past, no shame for past.... etc etc etc....
They say - all of this is gone. And now - there's wonderful relief. There's peace and the presence.

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:06 pm

I tried to ask, if you want me to do this experiment: (I just make sure that this is the experiment)
Yes, that's the one.
I am looking for anything for "seeing there's no me". .... the question is, if you can show me how to do?
Yes, I can show you this. The experiments until now have been designed to help you discover some important things about what makes the “me” that people believe in. You needed to discover these things for yourself instead of simply learning about them as pieces of information.
It seems that my spiritual buddy s can see "there's no me". And there's a shift - they can see life "without their me". No dreaming about hope in the future, no doubts about the future, no regrets for past, no shame for past.... etc etc etc.... They say - all of this is gone. And now - there's wonderful relief. There's peace and the presence.
This is what I was warning you about before. Because I used the words “enlightenment,” you might have thought it did not apply. But it does.

You will encounter many people who tell you that they have found the answer. Do not simply take their word for it. When they say, “All of this is gone,” they might be telling you something they believe, but if you watch and listen carefully you may come to the conclusion that they haven't really changed.

Discovering that “there is no self” is not an automatic ticket to happiness. Yes, it might grant you a few months of improved mood. People might even say that you're seeming happier. But a lot of people get stuck here and miss the point. We are seeking that which is real; we are not seeking that which is not real (like “self”).

—————

Let me put it another way: One of the biggest enemies of the truth is expectation about the truth. If you believe that learning about the self will have a particular result, then you will probably get something that seems like that.

Look around at the people investigating liberation, and look at yourself. Are people moving toward the truth, or are they moving away from their suffering? Most people do the second thing. If I am running away from “my” suffering, then the result I get will involve “me.” I can convince myself that the “me” is gone, but it's still there — I just don't recognize it any more because it has adapted.

If you approach any step on this journey with specific expectations, you can get stuck there for years — or for the rest of your life. Life might be better than it was, but in some cases you'll have only set yourself up for a huge disappointment later on.

The truth has often surprised me, even shocked me. But it has never disappointed me.

—————

Okay, after you've done the final experiment, we'll wrap up “Phase One” and then move on to the “No Self” stage. Please do not hurry the final experiment, though.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:18 pm

Timothy, I'm sorry but I can't do now the experiment.

I lost good mood (caused by "I can draw!") tree days ago and negative mood take over me. And I'm now strongly negative and hopeless.

I know what's the cause. But I don't know how to get rid of it.
I still trust in thoughts, feelings, assumptions... mostly of the control of future.

I have my dreams and desires. And it is simple - I can't give up my dreams and desires. I do want what is not here and I don't want what is here.

And I'm really scared that I will not get my desires... and I will live lonely useless life. Only killing time and waiting to deaf.

I feel bad and I'm scared about the life. I'm scared of "I'm done, that's end".

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:21 am

I know what's the cause. But I don't know how to get rid of it. I still trust in thoughts, feelings, assumptions... mostly of the control of future.
I once saw a little button for sale in a store. It said:

Oh, no, not another learning experience!

That's what this is, though.

I had one myself today. I didn't want it, but I had it. I spent almost 8 hours removing a very tough virus from my computer. When I was finally done, I felt really angry at the person who'd made the virus. Since I couldn't find that person the question was: would I take my anger out on some innocent person?

No, I didn't.

Well, that was a learning experience. I'd rather not have another one for a while, though.
I have my dreams and desires. And it is simple - I can't give up my dreams and desires. I do want what is not here and I don't want what is here.
That's definitely a prescription for suffering. You've identified it.
And I'm really scared that I will not get my desires... and I will live lonely useless life. Only killing time and waiting to deaf.
So you're afraid you'll be useless and simply mark time until you die?

I know that feeling. It's odd, though: lots of people are like that, but they still enjoy life. Don't ask me how. In my case, I want to be doing things. It sounds like you're the same.

Well, a few weeks ago you were sure you'd never draw again. And if I recall correctly, you'd forgotten how to celebrate life. Somehow you got both of those back.

There's a whole lot of “learning experience” in that “somehow.” Maybe you'd rather skip it?

I sure didn't want that virus. But there it was. Now I'm (mostly) past it. I've eaten, which made me feel a bit better, and I'll go walk the dog, which will also help. Now I'm responding here, which takes my mind off my self, and later on I'll respond in another forum. After a while, I'll feel pretty much normal. By tomorrow, after I've slept, I won't feel as exhausted as I do now.

Today helped me test something I'd discovered, which is how I can make myself angrier and angrier. All I had to do to calm down is NOT THAT.

Guess what? Not doing that actually worked! I used to think I had to do something about anger, but it turned out that I had to not do something.

Is the way you feel a familiar experience? From your post it sounds like you've felt this way before.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:20 pm

Okay.

Look - I grew up in dysfunctional family. My dream was (is) "to get balance" in life.
To be the good one all the time. Not to be good one on first day, and bad one on second day...

Tell me - Should I give up this effort?

I wanted "safe" behavior (for myself) = for protection people around me. To be good one.

I am good inside. But my thoughts make my bad one.

Thank you

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:29 am

My dream was (is) "to get balance" in life. To be the good one all the time. Not to be good one on first day, and bad one on second day... Tell me - Should I give up this effort?
Remember I asked you to look up “memes?” Well, consider the memes you're living with — the ones that tell you that “you must be good.”

What is “good?” Does it mean never having a negative thought? Does it mean not hurting other people? If you look back over the things you were told and taught, you'll probably find that “good” means a lot more than either of those definitions. You may discover that some of what “good” is doesn't even make sense. (If you were a Muslim, you'd have to pray many times a day to be “good.” Isn't that silly?)
I am good inside. But my thoughts make my bad one.
Yes, the thoughts. Remember the thoughts that disliked what you'd drawn? Where did they go when it was 3 AM and you were still drawing? Where did they go when you looked at a picture you'd drawn earlier and found there were things to like about it?

Thoughts may seem to come out of nowhere, but there are reasons they happen. How about those thoughts that are making you unhappy right now? They arise because of beliefs. They arise to maintain the “self.” It's the self you've gradually come to believe in throughout your life. The belief in self that wants to stay “alive” in your mind. The belief that has convinced you that if it dies, then you will die.

It is lying to you. You've seen for yourself that it's a lie. When you were drawing, or listening to music, and self was absent, did you die? Were you unhappy?

Self can reward you when you do what it “wants.” It can tell you you're “good” and then give you pleasure for believing that. It can punish you when you do what it doesn't “want.” It can tell you you're “bad” and then make you hurt because of that.

It isn't evil. It isn't any more nasty than a tiger that eats another animal. Any product of evolution, either genetic (like a tiger) or memetic (like the idea of self) has survived. And while the tiger has evolved huge muscles and sharp claws, the idea of self has also evolved ways to keep itself alive.

Wouldn't it be useful (and even interesting) to find out more about this?

—————

Now you have an opportunity. If you're going to be unhappy for a few days, or a week or two, then be unhappy. In fact, try to be unhappy. Don't just give up and let unhappiness take over, though. You've tried that before and it doesn't help. Instead, bring that unhappiness up so you can study just what the self is trying to do, and how it does it. Watch it carefully. Become a scientist, specializing in this subject. Makes notes about it. It will try to hide from your scrutiny — but don't stop watching it.

Be accurate and honest in those notes! I'll say that again: be accurate and honest. Don't write, “I am unhappy because my life sucks.” That tells you nothing; it's not accurate; nor is it complete. That would simply play self's game. Instead, write things like, “Somehow I believe I absolutely must be a success but I don't actually know what success means” (or whatever is true for you). Find out what self seems to want. Find out how it tries to make you do what it “wants.” Find out if what it seems to want genuinely matters to a human animal like you or me.

Call your ego's bluff. Spot the beliefs you have that don't actually make sense. Write it all down. Look for patterns. When self or ego or whatever you call it sees that you've seen it, it might try to stop you. It will punish you; it will tempt you. But don't get sidetracked. Don't get angry. Don't get annoyed. Don't be sad, or frustrated. Don't play its game. Just watch it. Note down what it does. If you can, write down when in your life it started doing a particular thing to you.

Discover!

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:33 pm

Okay Timothy, Thanx

I'm going to do this, I will write (catch) every believe, thought, opinion... what "comes to mind".
I will write down to little notebook.

I will show up here in two days.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:48 pm

Timothy, I done this exercise... and I see now my loop of negative thinking, believing, etc.

I have some of these thoughts for many years, and some for more then 10 years...
This is my personal little prison.
Instead, bring that unhappiness up so you can study just what the self is trying to do, and how it does it. Watch it carefully. Become a scientist, specializing in this subject. Makes notes about it. It will try to hide from your scrutiny — but don't stop watching it.
Find out what self seems to want. Find out how it tries to make you do what it “wants.” Find out if what it seems to want genuinely matters to a human animal like you or me.
Call your ego's bluff. Spot the beliefs you have that don't actually make sense. Write it all down. Look for patterns.
Okay but what I suppose to do with old negative-memories/assumptions "what if I did... in past different" etc...
How to get rid of this thoughts?
When self or ego or whatever you call it sees that you've seen it, it might try to stop you. It will punish you; it will tempt you. But don't get sidetracked. Don't get angry. Don't get annoyed. Don't be sad, or frustrated. Don't play its game. Just watch it. Note down what it does. If you can, write down when in your life it started doing a particular thing to you.
Yes, it is NOT easy. It is like I became nobody.
But I understand - this is a meaning of this exercise. To become nobody.
From my mind-point-of-view it is self-destructive thing. To become loser and live in "self-denied".

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:39 am

Okay, this is perfect.
I see now my loop of negative thinking, believing, etc. I have some of these thoughts for many years, and some for more then 10 years... This is my personal little prison. ....

How to get rid of this thoughts? ....

[When in flow, it] is like I became nobody.
But I understand - this is a meaning of this exercise. To become nobody.
From my mind-point-of-view it is self-destructive thing. To become loser and live in "self-denied".
Okay, you've discovered the problem. You've seen how it is solved. And now there's the worry.

That worry is not surprising. People ask, “If there is no me, what will happen? Isn't that destroying myself?”

No, not at all. When you draw and your sense of self and time goes away, is there a problem? No, the problem has gone away.

The “meaning of this exercise” is not “to become nobody.” These exercises remind you what it's like to be what you actually are. To the memes in your head — the ones that say things like “You must be successful!” — this might seem like being “nobody.” But how can you be nobody? There's a body, it draws, it listens to music. It eats, it sleeps. Sometimes it laughs. Sometimes it stubs its toe.

And it does another thing — something it could avoid: it has ideas about what it is, and those ideas are not accurate. Those ideas cause it suffering.

Okay, let's see to what extent you are following all this. You said that you have had “some of these thoughts for many years.” Now, please do the following.

(1) Tell me which thoughts/beliefs cause you the most problems. Please list three thoughts/beliefs if you can, but at least list one.

(2) Tell me where those thoughts/beliefs came from. Trace those thoughts/beliefs back as far as you can, even if they started with the birth of the universe. (In other words, I'm asking for a complete answer, not just two words.) You can guess a bit if you want, so long as you are at least attempting to see where they came from.

(3) Tell me what your life was like before you had those thoughts/beliefs. Please do not just say, “Better than now.” I want you to really concentrate and remember what it was like to not have those thoughts.

Thanks.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:45 pm

Okay, the first one - fear of people. This is my biggest fear : (

I feel like I am not very sociable and I don't want go to party s, social events etc. I feel more like I am a family man.
Just few good people around me and that's all I want.


The second one is an extension of the first one. The fear of "I will stay alone for the rest of my life".

I am avoiding people, and I am afraid that I never meet the girl which want the same things like I do...


The third one is success need. It's like life style and obsession in one.

I was attended in personal-development and personal-grow groups/seminars/society (*kind of people*) for some time, and I see myself like mr. successful, or mr. boss.
I am used to think big, to lead etc...
And this is not bad. It is very interesting work. I love personal development and entrepreneurship. I see this work very creatively.
But on the other hand - I respect successfully people.
And I am afraid that this obsession (about success) is bigger than I am... and then I behave badly. I am big egoist and my humanity disappear. I feel like an machine. Not like a human. My good side is gone.


Second part:
Track of origin.

Fear of people - I am a little men, I am tall 165cm (5' 5"). I remember I was a playful happy kid and since when I was 9 years, other kids were making jokes etc about my height. And I didn't like it. This is first cause, why I don't like people - they can make fun of me. Today I don't care about this anymore. But part of me feels, like I never grow up - to be adult. Not because of my height. But... because I don't like party s, bars, discotheques etc. And almost all people goes to these events.

Fear of loneliness - I want family, my heart fire for this desire. It means for me "a hope of real home".
I grew up in dysfunctional environment and I am tiered of these people, about their little personal wars.
I don't want fight anymore. I want peace.
All of these people are unhappy, they fight for yourself, one by one. Everyone of them live in one room alone.
They never eat together etc...
And I am afraid that I will be same like them. Alone, unhappy and full of envy.

The success obsession - success was my ticket from lower-middle class to higher-middle class. And this is nothing bad. It is good. The problem is somewhere else.
I became very egoistic. Too focus on money and success. It's an obsession.

Third part - before thoughts

Fear of people - I was happy kid, playful, cheerful : ) And I want be like this again. This is real human being. Full of life, love, creativity, energy... : )))
I didn't have a problem with other kids or people, everything was fine.

Fear of loneliness - you know I never knew what functional family is. I know it only from other people. I want leave my old life and start again. To learn to love. Etc. My heart is good. I am not bad person. My heart is good. I just want a new chance to start again.

The success obsession - the key for this is same like my answer for the fear of people.
I was happy kid, playful, cheerful : ) And I want be like this again. This is real human being. Full of life, love, creativity, energy... : )))
I didn't have a problem with other kids or people, everything was fine.

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:55 am

Okay, let's concentrate on one of those items. Our goal here is not to “fix” you, but to find out where this comes from. When you find that out it will start to fix itself.
I am afraid that this obsession (about success) is bigger than I am .... I feel like an machine. Not like a human.
This is a good discovery.

You went to seminars to learn to be successful. They might have given you some information about that, but they did something else: they taught you that you need to be “successful.” You (and everybody else) were being encouraged to increase your belief in “success” memes.

Most success seminars do not work — if they did almost everybody who attended would be “successful.” There is, however, one way that success seminars are very successful: they succeed in getting people to pay money to learn more, more, more about how important “success” is! You might even say that the most successful seminars make people obsessed with so-called success!
... success was my ticket from lower-middle class to higher-middle class. .... The problem is somewhere else. I became very egoistic. Too focus on money and success. It's an obsession.
You use that word “obsession,” but it's certainly not an obsessive compulsion (like those people who wash their hands 50 times a day). Rather, it's a strong belief.

If you call it an obsession, it sounds like you can't do anything about it; it sounds like you can't find out where it comes from. If, on the other hand, you call it a belief, you can begin to see where it comes from.

Look: some people believe, very very strongly, that there's a god and his name is Allah. We might say that some of them are obsessed with that idea, since they're willing to die for that belief. But obsession is not the root of the problem.

Some people are obsessed with Star Trek or Harry Potter, yet they're not dangerous. What's the difference between their obsession and somebody who will blow himself up in the name of his god? The main issue is this:

People can believe completely — totally! — in something that isn't real.

Whether it's “success” or some imaginary god, belief will drive people — it will literally drive them.

We might think we are in control of our every choice, but in fact our choices are determined by the things that drive us. You “choose” to come to this forum, but in fact you're driven by a combination of influences. Things happen for reasons; people choose for reasons, too — it's not random.

Earlier this week I wrote a short blog post about this issue. You can read it here.
The success obsession ... [Without it] I was happy kid, playful, cheerful : ) And I want be like this again. This is real human being. Full of life, love, creativity, energy...
Okay, good! First, note which sentence of yours I put in bold text. Take a moment to wonder why I thought that sentence was so important.

Next, let's find out what is driving this “obsession.”

Tell me the complete history of your belief in success. Don't justify it. Don't tell me if it was good or bad. Don't tell me if it made you happy or sad. Just tell me where this belief came from. And here comes the tough part:

I want you to start the story of your belief in success in the year 10,000,000 BC. It doesn't matter that you weren't alive back then. I don't care if you get the facts wrong. I do, however, want you to go back as far as you can.

You did not invent that belief. This is not your story; you will be telling the story of the belief. Look to see where it came from. Follow the story throughout history, continuing to the day you were born (at which point you do enter the story) and then follow the story until today (December 12, 2011).


There are no wrong answers if you make a serious effort at this. I am not asking you to become an expert in history.

It might take you a while to answer this properly, though let's hope it takes less than ten million years.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Timothy,

I'm not sure if i get it what you want from me.
Tell me the complete history of your belief in success. Don't justify it. Don't tell me if it was good or bad. Don't tell me if it made you happy or sad. Just tell me where this belief came from.

I did traced back through time... and I'v traced this:
I liked an idea of success... already in my childhood. I remember that I was watching TV and I liked happy successfully looked man in a suit... quality executive cars, skyscrapers... . I very liked that.
And I saw that people like this have a respect, nice things, beautiful houses etc...
And I see successful people like a valuable, better people. "They did it." They are winners. They are masters of life.

School helped this belief for sure. Television too... Whole society want and celebrate success.

But Timothy, I realized one thing. I didn't started my business by myself. Like many people do. They made "a business plan" after that they start business.
I did some service... and still more and more people wanted my services... I was just a student with small job in spare time.
That was beginning of my business. It just grow bigger and bigger info a "full-time job".
And I was focused on the job and the money. Not particular focused on success.

My belief say: "You need this & this & this... to be happy, loved,..."

Okay Timothy, I need to ask you about the rest:
I want you to start the story of your belief in success in the year 10,000,000 BC. It doesn't matter that you weren't alive back then. I don't care if you get the facts wrong. I do, however, want you to go back as far as you can.

You did not invent that belief. This is not your story; you will be telling the story of the belief. Look to see where it came from. Follow the story throughout history, continuing to the day you were born (at which point you do enter the story) and then follow the story until today (December 12, 2011).
Im not sure if i get it.
I have make a story? On facts? Or my assumptions "how it could be" - you know year 10,000,000 BC - there was no people yet, and this is no very real, it seem as I should make a fairy tail. ?

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:19 am

I have make a story? On facts? Or my assumptions "how it could be" - you know year 10,000,000 BC - there was no people yet, and this is no very real, it seem as I should make a fairy tail. ?
No, I was not looking for a fairy tale. Let me explain a bit further.

Most people, when asked about a belief, can't trace it back further than their birth. This leads them to misunderstand the belief, or to over-estimate its importance.

Imagine, for example, that a man thinks that he really, really needs a fancy car to attract women. He makes this belief part of who he (thinks) is, and the older he gets, the longer he has believed that fancy cars are important. He ends up forgetting why he had the belief in the first place.

It might help if he considered where that belief came from. Did it exist 500 years ago? Of course not. At least, back then it would not have been a car that he wanted; it might have been a fancy horse and carriage. 1500 years ago it might have been a horse and chariot. 3000 years ago it might have been an oxen and a cart. 10,000 years ago it might have been some good leather sandals.

So it's not the car itself. It never was about the car, or the carriage, or the cart, or the shoes.

What does “success” mean to you, today? Look at what you wrote:
I liked happy successfully looked man in a suit... quality executive cars, skyscrapers... . I very liked that.
And I saw that people like this have a respect, nice things, beautiful houses etc.. .... I see successful people like a valuable, better people. "They did it." They are winners.
Is having money, houses and nice things really what “success” is?

Yes, of course it is!

Did you expect me to say, "No, it's not?"

Throughout history, people (and evolution) have framed “success” in terms of (A) survival (B) reproduction and (C) power. In today's world, those three things almost always require lots of money.

On the other hand, some of us consider it a mistake to focus on this thing called “success.”

—————

Once again, let's step back 500 years into the past. What is “success?” For most people it meant having a farm that produced enough food that their family didn't starve, but that was no guarantee. Go back to any period in human history and no matter how much stuff you have, there is no guarantee. You can always catch a plague, or have all your belongings stolen. You and your entire family can be murdered in the middle of the night. That is as true today as it was 10,000,000 years ago!

“Success” is a desperately-pursued goal with no guarantee. It is a deceptive seduction.

—————

This is common knowledge, not some rare insight. In fact, you can even find it in the Bible, at Luke 18:22:

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Does that sound like what most Christians do? Of course not. Most of them chase some kind of success every day. They chase and chase and chase until the day they die.

This raises the question: since this is not new knowledge, why do so few people truly discover it?

—————

Assume, for a moment, that you have all the money you want. Assume that with all that money you attracted the attention of countless lovely women and you are now in a serious relationship with one, and friends with several more. All of your business colleagues think you're amazing, and your friends think the same.

That sounds good, doesn't it? You know, you can leave this forum right now and go to one that is all about “success.” There's nothing and nobody here stopping you.

Don't let me stand in your way! What do I know? I'm just some idiot on the internet. Go out there and start getting rich! Make lots of money and buy all the happiness you can! You don't even have to reply to this post.

User avatar
Beginner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Second try

Postby Beginner » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:52 pm

Yes Timothy, I agree.

I know for few years, that success doesn't bring happiness. Like other things... People chase many of these things whole life.

Now... I am becoming "ego-less". Im trying to find a path for innocence.

When I was kid, I was happy. I was happy even without the success thing etc.

And now i!m trying let ego go... and become empty. But that's no emptiness there.
There's wonderful freedom.

And chasing something? That was just belief... false/mistaken belief.

Now I understand that the key for me now, is to test any other belief - it is true? or untrue? This is path of liberation. To become innocent (egoless) again.

User avatar
Timothy Campbell
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm
Location: Hardy, Kentucky, USA
Contact:

Re: Second try

Postby Timothy Campbell » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:06 am

When I was kid, I was happy. I was happy even without the success thing etc.
Yes. And then you were taught (by school, parents, society etc.) that you needed something called “success” to be happy. Yet you were already happy. So they had to teach you how to not be happy so that you would start working to be happy.

Let me ask you a very advanced question: Why was this done?

I do not expect you to know the answer. You will probably look in the wrong place for the answer. But let's see what you can do with the question. The answer goes to the heart of what “no self” is all about. And that's the only hint I am going to give you.
Now I understand that the key for me now, is to test any other belief - it is true? or untrue? This is path of liberation.
Testing beliefs is good practice. However, if you test every belief you will run out of time. As we delve deeper into the question posed above you will discover that it isn't necessary to test every belief. But I still encourage you to be skeptical about everything you're told, and (this is much harder) everything you think and feel.

You might find it odd that I'm recommending skepticism about your own feelings, so let me give you an example of why this is important.

Let's say you've had a really horrible day. Just by chance, everything has gone wrong. Also, you didn't get enough sleep, and your computer caught a virus. Then a friend phones you up. For some reason your friend seems really annoying today. In fact, you find yourself getting irritated at little things he says that usually don't bother you.

In cases like that, your friend is not the most significant cause of the irritation. When your mood is angry, or depressed, or frustrated, it colors your perceptions. When that happens, your perceptions and feelings are inaccurate. Your mind will insist your feelings are thoroughly justified, but your mind will be mistaken.


If you can see this happening, in the very moment that it happens, you will discover much about why people continue to be miserable. However, it's not enough to simply nod and say, “That makes sense.” To actually see this — to fully discover this for yourself — you must notice this while it is happening. Anything else is just an intellectual exercise — a piece of knowledge you've read about.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 376 guests