Intellectual seeker tired of seeking

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

Tom, this is also not coming from looking. You are intelligent, so you quickly grasped the idea of there being no separate self. And now you are writing about your understanding of no self, without deeply investigating it. You might think that you are deeply investigating it, but you are investigating your thoughts and ideas, not the immediate experience of it.

It’s not enough to say that there is no identity, and conclude that the thought ‘I’ identifies with a story. This is not looking, this is thinking.

Thanks Vivien, you're right - investigation of thoughts and ideas masquerading as looking.

- The visual thought of how 'Tom' appears to others (as a body)
- A selection of thoughts, attitudes, beliefs, assumptions and moods others often associate with 'Tom' (personality)
- The visual thought of how 'Sarah' appears to others (as a body) and how she is identifiable from 'other' bodies
- A selection of thoughts, attitudes, beliefs, assumptions and moods others often associate with 'Sarah' (personality)
- The memory of the relationship between 'Tom' and 'Sarah' (husband/wife), and terms of engagement based on this relationship
- A recollection of thoughts from memory relevant to the topic at hand (e.g. earlier conversations about house hunting, Sarah's preferences, Tom's preferences, differences of opinion, potential arguments etc.)

These are all conceptual. You wrote down your definition of a self.

Agreed - it is conceptual and reflects 'my' interpretation of the question being asked.

How does the belief of ‘Tom being a static self’ show up here now?

'I' misunderstood this question to mean 'How is the belief of Tom being a static self created and experienced in thought?'. Since the context of this question is entirely thought-focused, it is impossible to respond without being conceptual.

In retrospect, it appears you were asking 'Can you see this belief in direct experience? Can it be seen/heard/smelled/tasted/sensed when you look for it?'
….a pretty easy question really if that's the case - no, I can't.

When you look for the self, where do you search for it? Do you only search for it in thoughts? Or somewhere else too?

'I' have been searching for self in thoughts (no doubt) but also searching for it outside of thought too:

- Just opening eyes
- Looking
- Noticing what is here and how it is experienced to make it ‘real’
- Noticing what is not here (admittedly this hasn’t been done enough)

Looking at what is here now:

- TV (seeing, hearing)
- Speakers (seeing, hearing)
- Daughter (seeing, hearing, sensing)
- Body (seeing, hearing, sensing)
- Coffee cup (seeing, sensing, smelling tasting)
- Biscuits (seeing, sensing, tasting)
- Plant (seeing)
- Lamp (seeing)
- No self (can't be seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched)
- No beliefs (can't be seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched)

V: What is it that needs an identity?
T: Only the illusory self needs an identity to ensure its own survival.

How did you come to this conclusion? Did you actually searched for a thing that needs an identity and literally found an illusonary self somewhere in experience and you literally saw that this illusonary self is trying to ensure its own survival?

No – this conclusion is entirely based on thought and attempts to investigate thought processes, more intellectual drivel.

Looking again:

- 'I' cannot find any self that is experienced with the 5 senses
- 'I' definitely cannot see this self trying to ensure its own survival

How “its own survival” shows up in experience?

It doesn't show up in experience. This is just a concept, an assumption created in thought.

And how does this illusionary self look like when you look at it, here now? How big it is? What shape it has? What texture? Color? What is its temperature?

Looking again, still no self to be found

- No size
- No shape
- No texture
- No colour
- No temperature

Zilch. Nada.

In order to make a statement that the illusionary self needs an identity to ensure its own survival, first, you have to LITERALLY find this self, you have to be able to see it, touch it, smell it, and find its exact physical location. And after that you have to literally SEE as this entity is ensuring its own survival.

….and I can’t do any of these things because:

- I cannot find the self anywhere
- I cannot see it
- I cannot touch it
- I cannot smell it

As you point out, this statement is just speculation based on thought, not looking.

But how even ‘ensuring survival’ looks like in experience?

How indeed? More intellectual bollocks better saved for the next David Attenborough special :)

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

How indeed? More intellectual bollocks better saved for the next David Attenborough special :)

I’m glad you don’t take my comments personally. :)

'I' misunderstood this question to mean 'How is the belief of Tom being a static self created and experienced in thought?'. Since the context of this question is entirely thought-focused, it is impossible to respond without being conceptual.

In retrospect, it appears you were asking 'Can you see this belief in direct experience? Can it be seen/heard/smelled/tasted/sensed when you look for it?'
….a pretty easy question really if that's the case - no, I can't.

I meant the latter. It’s quite rare for me to ask an intellectual question. Please take all my questions literally, take them as pointers, something to investigate.

When I ask intellectual questions those are usually about expectations. But otherwise, all my questions are pointers for you where to look.

'I' have been searching for self in thoughts (no doubt) but also searching for it outside of thought too:
- Just opening eyes
- Looking
- Noticing what is here and how it is experienced to make it ‘real’
- Noticing what is not here (admittedly this hasn’t been done enough)

OK. It’s important to mention that the self-illusion not just about thoughts. The self also shows up as sensations in the body. There are not just thoughts about me, but it FEELS that there is a me somewhere.

You have literally SEARCH THROUGH the whole body from head to toe many-many times. Pay particular attention to the chest and the whole head. Search for the self in the eyes, behind the eyes, at the back of the head, the middle of the head, the top of the head, in the throat. Look everywhere. Search with closed eyes and open eyes too.

So for today I’m going to give you only one exercise. In the midst of your everyday life, watch like a hawk, trying to spot the BODILY FEELING of the self.

If you look closely, you might discover that the feeling of me can show up at different locations. Sometimes in the chest (especially when there are emotions), sometimes it is behind the eyes, looking out through them, like two windows, sometimes it’s in the forehead, as if it were the thinker of thoughts. Sometimes it appears in the throat, especially when talking or imagining talking.

Please watch out for these very closely, and at the end of the day tell me:

Which sensation seems to be the me?

Can you find other locations than what I mentioned above?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

I’m glad you don’t take my comments personally. :)

Keep them coming, I'm a sucker for punishment :)

Which sensation seems to be the me?

Eyes and eyelids

- Very tired this morning
- Sensation of eyeballs separate from the head and rest of the face (size, shape, weight etc), tension behind eyeballs
- Feeling of heavy eyelids pulling downwards, trying to cover eyeballs
- Feeling of effort to force eyelids upwards (opposite to where they want to go naturally) to keep eyes open
- This gives the strong sense of a 'me' as doer, the one forcing the eyelids upwards to keep the eyes open

Forehead

- Feeling of tension behind forehead when thinking
- Sensation of heat rising from behind the forehead, stopping at the top of the skull
- This gives the strong sense of thought being contained within the head and a ‘me’ inside the head as the thinker of thoughts

Upper chest and throat

- Feeling of vibration being carried by exhalation upwards (from chest to throat) and outwards (through mouth and nose) when speaking
- Sensation of the voice starting from inside the body before being released as sound into the world ‘out there’ beyond the confines of its ‘skin container’
- This gives the strong sense of a ‘me’ as speaker, the one creating sounds and sending them out to the world


Can you find other locations than what I mentioned above?

Left shoulder and lower neck

- Woke up with pain in this area (most likely from sleeping in a bad position)
- The pain feels localised in this area under the skin and stopping at the surface of the skin
- This gives the strong sense of a 'me' feeling the pain 'in here' separate to what's happening outside the body

Surface of the skin

- Walking in heavy rain
- Feeling of the rain hitting the surface of the skin and bouncing away
- Feeling that the skin is the outer barrier for a separate, solid, impenetrable body the rain is falling on
- Feeling of the cold temperature on the skin’s surface and warm temperature underneath the skin
- This gives the strong sense of a ‘me’ inside a solid, separate body (with the skin as its barrier) being rained upon

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

You’ve provided a lot of things to look at. So we are going to look at them one by one.

Eyes and eyelids

- Very tired this morning
- Sensation of eyeballs separate from the head and rest of the face (size, shape, weight etc), tension behind eyeballs
- Feeling of heavy eyelids pulling downwards, trying to cover eyeballs
- Feeling of effort to force eyelids upwards (opposite to where they want to go naturally) to keep eyes open
- This gives the strong sense of a 'me' as doer, the one forcing the eyelids upwards to keep the eyes open

Let’s start here.

I would like to ask you to spend a whole day focusing on the sensations of the eyes, and the movements of the eyes.

And search for the one that is making the eyes move. Literally search for it. Find the exact location where the eyes are being moved FROM. And when you have found the exact location, search for the mover itself.
Find the mover.

Please be careful not just to notice what is happening, but rather actively search for the one that is making the eyes move.

If you feel tired again and there is an effort to keep them open, then search for the one that is making the effort.

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

I would like to ask you to spend a whole day focusing on the sensations of the eyes, and the movements of the eyes.

And search for the one that is making the eyes move. Literally search for it. Find the exact location where the eyes are being moved FROM. And when you have found the exact location, search for the mover itself.
Find the mover.

The eyes and eyelids are being moved from the following locations:

- Outside corner of the eyes where eyelids meet each other (location 1: eyelids)
- Inside corner of the eyes where eyelids meet each other (location 2: eyelids)
- Underneath the top eyelid of each eye (location 3: eyelids)
- Directly behind each eye (location 4: eyes)

Scanning each location for presence of a mover:

- location 1: No mover found; just tension and relaxation of small muscles where eyelids meet on outside corner of the eyes
- location 2: No mover found; just tension and relaxation of small muscles where eyelids meet on inside corner of the eyes
- location 3: No mover found; just tension of small muscles inside the upper eyelids as they contract back into the upper eye socket
- location 4: No mover found; just tension of small muscles behind the eye to direct its movements


If you feel tired again and there is an effort to keep them open, then search for the one that is making the effort.

Having scanned at regular intervals (with eyes open and closed), here's the results:

- No trace of anyone or anything making the effort could be found
- There was the sensation of muscles tensing (to force the eyelids open and maintain the eye’s position) and relaxing (to let the eyelids close and eyes roll backwards) in each of the locations above
- There was a felt presence of awareness that was witnessing the muscle tension and relaxation in an impartial sense, rather than as a ‘mover’ or ‘doer’ assuming ownership for these actions. This awareness felt boundless, not originating from any central point of reference (e.g. behind the eyes).

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,
Please stay with the sensations of the eyes and investigate:

What is making the muscles around the eyes to move?
What is giving the order for the muscles to move the eyes?
What is making the decision when and which direction move the eyes?

Is there any moment when you make the eyes move or blink?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

Some findings of today's investigations were quite contradictory in nature.....but in the interest of staying with experience and not jumping to intellectual conclusions (one of my particular talents, I'm sure you'll agree), I have left these 'as is' for now in all their contradictory glory:

Please stay with the sensations of the eyes and investigate:

What is making the muscles around the eyes to move?

Nothing - the muscles are moving by themselves automatically.

What is giving the order for the muscles to move the eyes?

Nothing - no orders are being given. Muscles are just moving spontaneously (tensing, relaxing, twitching) of their own accord and without warning.

What is making the decision when and which direction move the eyes?

'I' encountered 2 different scenarios:

Eyes wondering in random directions (without conscious intent)

- The eyes move in the direction they want to go first
- Thoughts happen to assume ownership and provide reasoning for the direction they're looking (how it relates to current experience).

Eyes moving after a deciding thought (with conscious intent)

- A deciding thought (e.g. 'Look left') happens. There is no 'me' making the decision, the thought just appears
- Muscles work together automatically to open the eyelids and move the eyes to the left

Is there any moment when you make the eyes move or blink?

Very similar to the question above, 2 different situations:

Eyes blinking randomly (without conscious intent)

- Blinking just happens without any kind of deciding thought preceding it
- Eye muscles tense and twitch quickly, spontaneously and without warning
- Sometimes thoughts happen afterwards ('I just blinked'), sometimes not
- There is no moment when 'I' make the eyes blink

Eyes blinking after a deciding thought (with conscious intent)

- A deciding thought (e.g. 'Blink') happens. There is no 'me' making the decision, the thought just appears
- Muscles work together automatically to close the eyelids and 'hold' the blink
- The response time between the deciding thought ('Blink') happening and muscles moving (to blink the eyes) is not constant; sometimes its immediate, sometimes there's a delay
- Whenever this movement does happen, it is at a time of the body's choosing; there is no moment when 'I' make the eyes blink.

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

Your replies seem to be clear. But I would like to ask you…

How much of these is actually seen as being the fact of experience, and how much of it is only an intellectual understanding? 50/50? Less? More?

Is there anything that doesn’t happen automatically? Anything at all?
Is there any control over anything?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

How much of these is actually seen as being the fact of experience, and how much of it is only an intellectual understanding? 50/50? Less? More?

80/20
- 80% investigating experience, scanning eyes, locating muscles, watching movements (lots of time spent doing this yesterday)
- 20% intellectual - mainly vain attempts to find words that accurately represent experience when responding to your questions

Is there anything that doesn’t happen automatically? Anything at all?

Had a bit of an 'Aha' moment after scrutinising the 'Conscious intent' Vs 'Without conscious intent' distinction made in yesterday's post with further investigation (knew there was something wrong with it!).

Namely, whatever supposed 'intent' is being felt (if at all) before blinking, moving eyes, holding breath, clenching jaw (anything really!), is coming from a thought that is happening automatically, so just another illusion. Based on direct experience, the only differentiator (if any) that can be made is the order by which thoughts and actions happen.

'Conscious intent'
- Thoughts happen automatically
- Actions happen automatically after thoughts

'Without conscious intent'
- Actions happen automatically
- Thoughts happen automatically after actions (if at all)

So, in response to your question:
- There is nothing that doesn't happen automatically
- There is no distinction to make between 'Conscious intent' and 'Without conscious intent' - both are illusory and don't exist
- Thoughts, feelings, movements, sensations, seeing, smelling, hearing, tasting, all just happening automatically

Is there any control over anything?

No - there is no one and nothing in control of anything. Everything is just happening automatically, 'I' see it now :)

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

You did a nice investigation :)

Had a bit of an 'Aha' moment after scrutinising the 'Conscious intent' Vs 'Without conscious intent' distinction made in yesterday's post with further investigation (knew there was something wrong with it!).

Yes. Let’s dig a bit deeper just to make sure that it’s totally clear.

Lie down onto a bed. Observer very carefully how the decision arises to get up.
Can a self be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up comes from?
What makes the body get up?
Is there an ‘I’ that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?

Repeat this with sitting in a chair. Describe in detail the decision of standing up.
How does the decision happen exactly?
Does a self come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does standing up just happen, or not, without any doer?
What makes the body to stand up?

Now let’s investigate intention.
Sit in a chair and observe how the intention of standing up happens.
How is it known that there is an intention to stand up?
While sitting there, say internally several times ‘I intend to get up’. What happens?
What is it that made the intention to get up?

Now, zoom onto the intention (of getting up) very closely. Look at the intention itself directly.
Stare at the intention itself. Not the thoughts of “I intend to get up”, but THE intention itself.
Can you locate THE intention itself?
How the intention is actually experienced?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

Yes. Let’s dig a bit deeper just to make sure that it’s totally clear.

Lie down onto a bed. Observer very carefully how the decision arises to get up.

Can a self be found making the body leave the bed?
No

Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up comes from?
Just thoughts happening automatically. There are no decisions or commands being made.

What makes the body get up?
The body works to coordinate the various muscles needed to get out of bed (hands, wrists, forearms, elbows, triceps, shoulders, neck, back, thighs, legs etc.). This just happens automatically, independent of any ‘doer’.

Is there an ‘I’ that commands the body?
No ‘I’, no commander

When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?
No, it doesn’t:

- When shouting ‘GET UP’ internally, sometimes the auditory thought of ‘GET UP’ happens, sometimes not.
- When shouting ‘GET UP’ externally, hearing of ‘GET UP’ happens
- Neither affects the outcome, the body hasn’t moved and is still lying down

Repeat this with sitting in a chair. Describe in detail the decision of standing up.

How does the decision happen exactly?
- Different thoughts are just happening automatically
- No control over the content of these thoughts; some relate to the task at hand (‘stand up’, ‘stay sitting down’ etc.), others are completely random (‘looking forward to dinner out tonight’, ‘need to arrange a lift to golf on Sunday’ etc.), many are repetitive
- The ‘decision’ happens at the moment the body starts moving automatically to stand up from the chair. This is not connected to any single thought of ‘stand up’, the body just moves by itself at a time of its choosing.

Does a self come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
No, there is no self weighing pros and cons.

- Different thoughts are happening automatically, some of which contain perceived advantages, disadvantages and possible consequences of standing up as their content
- However none of these are being directed by a self as ‘decider’

Or does standing up just happen, or not, without any doer?
Standing up just happens, or it doesn’t. There is no ‘doer’

What makes the body to stand up?
Just the body moving by itself, automatically.

Now let’s investigate intention.

Sit in a chair and observe how the intention of standing up happens.

How is it known that there is an intention to stand up?
- There is nothing ‘known’ to support the existence of an intention to stand up.
- There are just thoughts happening automatically
- Some of these thoughts contain the action of standing up as their contents
- When thoughts about ‘standing up’ are happening before the action of ‘standing up’ happens, this can feel like an intention to stand up

While sitting there, say internally several times ‘I intend to get up’. What happens?
Nothing, ‘I’ remain sitting down

What is it that made the intention to get up?
Thoughts just happening automatically and the content of these thoughts.

Now, zoom onto the intention (of getting up) very closely. Look at the intention itself directly.
Stare at the intention itself. Not the thoughts of “I intend to get up”, but THE intention itself.

Can you locate THE intention itself?
No

How the intention is actually experienced?
- Intention cannot be experienced directly because it does not exist.
- Thoughts are just happening automatically
- Actions are just happening automatically
- When thoughts about actions happen before the actions themselves happen, this can feel like an intention but it is an illusion
- There are no intentions and no self as the holder/thinker/intender of these intentions

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

- When thoughts about actions happen before the actions themselves happen, this can feel like an intention but it is an illusion

Is this something you understand, or you can really see that when there are thoughts ABOUT actions, those are not the felt experience of actual intentions, only plain thoughts?

Is there any doubt whatsoever, if there is someone or something who or what could have a control over anything at all?

And when I ask about the doubt, I don’t mean if you doubt it intellectually, but rather if you doubt it since in your everyday life it still feels that there is an I/self who is in charge of what is happening.

So please give me some information what happens in your everyday life when you don’t look.
Does it still feel that I am the thinker, doer, chooser, decider? That there is a me who is charge of ‘my life’?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

Is this something you understand, or you can really see that when there are thoughts ABOUT actions, those are not the felt experience of actual intentions, only plain thoughts?

Yes Vivien, I can really see this now. Yesterday’s exercises built upon the earlier discovery that ‘conscious intent’ (as I had defined it previously) were just plain thoughts happening automatically, no ‘I’ or ‘self’ controlling these thoughts and ‘intending’ what to do next.

Just to recap on the key observations from these exercises:

Getting up from lying down / standing up from sitting down

- There were thoughts about the action of getting up / standing up happening
- There were also thoughts about the action of not getting up / standing up happening
- These thoughts were just happening automatically and at random; they were not felt as actual intentions with any 'I' or ‘self’ controlling them
- The action of the body moving to get up / stand up happened automatically and independently of the thoughts that happened before it; there was no 'I' or self to be found making the decision to get up / stand up and initiate the body's movements

Shouting ‘GET UP’ internally while lying down / sitting down

The observation of thoughts and actions happening automatically and independently of each other was reinforced by this exercise..

- There were audible thoughts of hearing ‘GET UP’ happening
- There were visual thoughts of the words ‘GET UP’ happening
- There were visual thoughts of the body getting up / standing up happening
- There were visual thoughts of the body not getting up / standing up happening
- These thoughts were just happening automatically and at random; they were not felt as actual intentions with any 'I' or ‘self’ controlling them
- Despite these thoughts happening and being very vivid, the body remained lying down / sitting up; it was not affected by these thoughts whatsoever
- When the body did move to get up / stand up, this happened automatically and independently of the thoughts above

Is there any doubt whatsoever, if there is someone or something who or what could have a control over anything at all?

No, not now – seeing ‘conscious intent’ for the illusion that it is (just thoughts and actions happening independently of each other; no controller) was a game-changer, any residual doubts there were about someone or something being in control appear to have gone with it.

And when I ask about the doubt, I don’t mean if you doubt it intellectually, but rather if you doubt it since in your everyday life it still feels that there is an I/self who is in charge of what is happening.

Mindful of this tendency to confuse intellectual understanding with experiential knowing so appreciate the reminder. Have tried to stay with experience when responding above but please continue to highlight whenever you're not convinced direct looking is happening.

So please give me some information what happens in your everyday life when you don’t look.

This may be best explained in terms of how everyday situations are being experienced ‘Now’ Vs ‘Then’ (prior to us starting our work together)…

Walking in the forest
- Then: I am here, inside the body, stopping at the surface of the skin, moving. The trees are out there, separate to me, stationary
- Now: I don’t feel contained within the body, sometimes I don’t feel like I’m here at all. I’m not conscious of having a head, there is just a single visual field. The trees don’t feel ‘out there’ – the body, the trees and everything else feel contained in the same thing

Looking in the mirror
- Then: That’s me, can’t be anyone else! Look – I just blinked my eyes, so did my reflection….confirmed!
- Now: That’s a body. The body of a pretty familiar chap, but a body nonetheless. There’s a sense of detachment now that wasn’t felt before

Inside ‘my’ head
- Then: Constant rumination, replayed conversations, what I should’ve said differently, uncertainty about future events, projecting myself into the future, constant jabber
- Now: A feeling of calm, absence of thought and being present with what is happening right now (cars on the distant motorway, different birds singing, wind on the face, the smell of flowers, seeing plants, leaves and trees in vivid colour and much more granular detail than previously). This feeling just happens spontaneously and without any sense of feeling forced. It actually feels like a real effort to ‘consciously’ think of anything that isn’t happening right now

Performing tasks that require a certain level of dexterity (pouring a coffee, making a sandwich)
- Then: I am the ‘doer’ controlling the hands, arms and body to pour the coffee, butter the bread, cut the sandwich, feed myself etc.
- Now: Being a ‘witness’ to the body while it coordinates the movement of hands, arms and other necessary parts automatically to perform each task

Will leave it there for the moment, not sure if that is too conceptual but this is how it feels while not looking.

Does it still feel that I am the thinker, doer, chooser, decider? That there is a me who is charge of ‘my life’?

No, it doesn’t anymore. Admittedly the feeling of a ‘self’ being present comes up from time to time but this appears to be fading gradually with each new attempt to look closer and longer to see what’s actually there.

Here to do this properly so appreciate there’s further to go. To this end, I will continue to trust your judgement and pointers as to where more looking is needed.

Thank you as always for your guidance and patience :)


Tom

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

You’ve done a nice investigation with this ‘conscious intent’.

- Now: A feeling of calm, absence of thought and being present with what is happening right now (cars on the distant motorway, different birds singing, wind on the face, the smell of flowers, seeing plants, leaves and trees in vivid colour and much more granular detail than previously). This feeling just happens spontaneously and without any sense of feeling forced. It actually feels like a real effort to ‘consciously’ think of anything that isn’t happening right now

Beautiful :)
I would like to ask you to give similar comments what you did in the second part (like the above). When you just use bullet points that doesn’t really show what you can actually see.

Now: Being a ‘witness’ to the body while it coordinates the movement of hands, arms and other necessary parts automatically to perform each task

Are you saying that there is a witness of experience? So there are two things? Witness (experiencer) + witnessed (experience)?

Is there an actual witness outside of experience, looking in and witnessing what is happening?

Vivien

[YouAmI]

Hi Vivien,

Now: A feeling of calm, absence of thought and being present with what is happening right now (cars on the distant motorway, different birds singing, wind on the face, the smell of flowers, seeing plants, leaves and trees in vivid colour and much more granular detail than previously). This feeling just happens spontaneously and without any sense of feeling forced. It actually feels like a real effort to ‘consciously’ think of anything that isn’t happening right now

Beautiful :)
I would like to ask you to give similar comments what you did in the second part (like the above). When you just use bullet points that doesn’t really show what you can actually see.

Thanks for the pointer Vivien, will do. Reading back through some earlier posts, I think the use of bullet points (and categorisation of each sensory experience) stemmed from a need to prove to you (and myself) that I was actually looking and not just exploring thought and its contents.

Are you saying that there is a witness of experience? So there are two things? Witness (experiencer) + witnessed (experience)?

No, there isn't a separate tangible entity witnessing the experience, it feels more like a constant state of awareness that is aware of things as they happen. It feels like a process, a state of being that is boundless and not localised within the body (call it 'awareing'?), not a separate self or thing.

Is there an actual witness outside of experience, looking in and witnessing what is happening?

In terms of what is being experienced now, there is not an actual witness outside of the experience..

- The eyes open and are filled with colours, shadows and shapes - the bright TV, plants, trees outside the window, blue sky peaking through the leaves. What is seen is upon me immediately, it can't help but be seen
- The ears are filled with sounds - the noisy TV, cars on a distant motorway, my daughter sucking on her bottle, wind blowing in the trees. What is heard is upon me immediately, it can't help but be heard
- The nose is filled with smells - milk from my daughters bottle, shampoo after her shower, dinner cooking. What is smelled cannot help but be smelled

However, it feels there is something going on which allows me to experience these sights, sounds and smells happening here but not be aware of similar things, happening at the same, on the other side of London. The best I can come up with for this phenomenon is 'awareness'. Struggling a bit with this, needs more work.