I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

[Anastacia42]

Of course.

Thank you, Albert. ;)

[KiwiKen]

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Hi Stacy,

I'm heading out for a ride on my Motorbike for a couple of hours but will check for a message as soon as I get back. So here are a few things I have been experiencing this morning. Hopefully, I have it set out the way you are wanting.

Seeing=
The Laptop
The keyboard of the laptop
The Wallpaper on the screen saver

Hearing=
Narng singing
A bird singing.
Music

Feeling (sensation)=
The Cool of the table.
The pressure of feet on the floor
Typing on the keyboard

Taste=
Tasting an omelet
Another Coffee
Water

Smell=
Roses again
The Sea Air
The dog

Thoughts=
About Riding my bike.
Shopping list
The weather

What I noticed this morning was when doing them straight out of bed was a really strong sense of presence.
Presence without thought, just the sense.

Can't wait to get back to get your next posts.

Much love ...Ken

[Anastacia42]

Good morning (here),

Yes. As long as you are LOOKONG at Direct Experience & replying with Direct Experience. That's it.

Here is another exercise to help make sure that v difference is clearly seen.

Fruit Exercise

This exercise will help you distinguish between thought arising and the content of thought.

Have a piece of fruit handy, or something that you like to eat.

For the first couple of minutes imagine you are eating the fruit…..feel the sensations of chewing, the taste, the texture, the fragrance, hear the crunching sound that the chewing makes. Really enjoy the imaginary piece of fruit as much as you can.

Then for the next couple of minutes actually bite the fruit and see the difference.

Experience the fruit with curiosity and dive into the sensations of chewing, swallowing, the sounds and the taste. Really enjoy the experience of actually eating the piece of fruit.

Then for another minute or so describe the taste and smell in as much detail as possible.

Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description



Loving,

[KiwiKen]

Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description

Morning Stacy,

So my experience of the actual eating of the apple is, crunchy, juicy, cold, sweet, noisy, delicious actually "Golden delicious"

1. No matter how hard I tried eating this imaginary fruit it lacked all authenticity.
2. All senses were used when eating the real Apple plus there was a sense of satisfaction and enjoyment eating it
3. The description of them both still missed the actual experience.

I'm off for a 5km walk, this shut down doesn't do the waist any good at all. I will check to see what you have to say when I get back home. Until then.

Ken

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ken,

Yes, exactly.

Now let's do an exercise to help distinguish between what I call "story" or "content" and the simple fact of Direct or Actual Experience (DE or AE).

DE is color, sound, sensation, smell, taste and the fact of thought arising (but not the content of that thought or the story that thought tells.)

If you have a "real" apple then you can use that for this exercise.

http://www.maryshomestead.com/sitebuild ... fruit.gif

Have a look at an apple.

When "looking at an apple," there's color; a thought saying "apple;" and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, the story, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something - because that is only more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of a thought arising.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT "apple?"

Can "apple" be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in Actual Experience (AE.)

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled "apple" is known.
Color labeled "apple" is known.
Sensation labeled "apple" is known (when apple is touched).
Smell labelled "apple’ is known.
Thought about/of an "apple" is known.

However, is an apple actually known?

Let me know what you find.

Much love,

[KiwiKen]

However, is an apple actually known?

Hi Stacy, I may well be heading up a wrong path here but I can only speak from my understanding as it comes to me now.
The sensory aspects of an Apple and the thought about an Apple are known.
But as far as Apple being "known" this I think is the content within the thought about it?

Thank you so much for your time, I know how valuable it is to us all.

Love...Ken

[Anastacia42]

Perfect. actually. Apple is completely made up, yes. It is merely content of thought. No self is like that. It's like Santa Claus. Once you see it, you can never unsee it.

Happy to help. Your freedom is my freedom.

So, how about this one?

Observing Thoughts

Here is a thought exercise.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear.

Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Let me know how this goes.

Much love,

[KiwiKen]

Observing Thoughts

Hi Stacy,
This one is quite an adventure. I will undertake this tomorrow when I'm feeling fresher.

Much Love ,,,Ken

[KiwiKen]

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative, or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Hi Stacy, I hope you are well today. Here are my answers in the order the questions are asked.
1. I don't know where they come from nor where they go.
2. I didn't do anything to make thoughts appear
3. No, I cannot make a different thought appear instead
4. I cannot predict my next thought
5. I cannot choose to have only pleasant thoughts
6. I cannot choose not to have painful or negative thoughts.
7. I cannot pick and choose any kind of thought
8. It is not possible for me to prevent a thought from appearing
I don't actually think that thoughts have a logically ordered sequence anyways.

Have a great week end.

Ken

[Anastacia42]

Hi.

I see you can quote, but it's easier for me to see

Quoted Question

Your Reply

Quoted Question

Your Reply

Quoted Question

Your Reply

I usually access on my phone, which is tiny

Thanks@

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Ken,

No need to rewrite that one. You've got it..

Here's another that shows how our languaging affects us.

Mind labeling experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Post this list.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

Looking forward to your replies.

Loving

[KiwiKen]

Mind labeling experience

I am watching my hands
I am touching the Keyboard
I am feeling my arms on the table.
I am hearing the beeps from Narngs phone
I am hearing the sound of the refrigerator

description of your experience right here and now.

Arm on a chair
touch of the keyboard
hearing the fridge
rustling of a plastic bag
breathing
listening
blinking

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The actual writing down either way was still labeling, just one is without a pronoun. Both are a description of the experience, not the actual experience.

2. What is here without labels?

The actual experience

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They both attempt to describe it although neither alters the actual experience. One could say however that some labels can definitely elicit an emotional response. A person looking at oneself can become "That person just looked at me strangely, he/she looks really frightening"

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

The Exercise without using the pronoun I seemed to me to elicit a feeling of more presence.

Rainy old Autumn day here today. Might take my dog out for a quick walk between showers...

Enjoy your evening..(Sunday Arvo' her)

Shanti shanti...ken

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Ken,

The Exercise without using the pronoun I seemed to me to elicit a feeling of more presence.

Is "presence" Actual Experience?

That is to say, is it:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling a body sensation)
Tasting
Touching
or Thought Arising (but not thought content?

While, yes, both are labels. So what? Please identify the differences in Sensation when doing the two different lists.

I ask you to do this exercise again, please. Reply with something that tells me about Sensation. You are asked to pay close attention to what is felt in the "body." Yes, that's a label, but we seem to have to use *something*.

Tell me the Sensation of the list with "I" and the Sensation of the list without "I" Are they identical? Or different?

Pay particular attention to your torso, what we call the "gut" and the "heart."

You, like me, when I began at LU "know" all of this stuff. An exercise like this is where the rubber hits the road. You cannot rely only on what you "think" or "know." We don't care about that at all. We want only AE here.

Much love,

[KiwiKen]

You, like me, when I began at LU "know" all of this stuff. An exercise like this is where the rubber hits the road. You cannot rely only on what you "think" or "know." We don't care about that at all. We want only AE here.

Good Morning, Stacy, I think you are right here. I'll put this knowledge to the side today and have another go.
Much Love ....ken

[KiwiKen]

Mind labeling experience[/quot
Label:
I am sitting in my recliner
I am hearing the wind blow
I am looking out over the marina
I feel my arms on the chair
I am watching the plants moving in the breeze
I hear the sounds of birds chirping

Non Label
Feeling the wind
Sounds of birds
Looking at the sea
Hearing the wind

Code: Select all

Tell me the Sensation of the list with "I" and the Sensation of the list without "I" Are they identical? Or different?

They are not identical. With the Label it feels very much centred in my head.

Pay particular attention to your torso, what we call the "gut" and the "heart.

" 

Yes, the more I do it the stronger the sensation in my heart.

"Presence?" Yes a thought...I think..ha ha.

Wow I think you'll have your work cut out with me!

With gratitude...Ken