How's it going? I hope you're well.
I can only guess why you haven't answered yet, but answering the questions shouldn't take too much time. It's a matter of looking into your direct experience and answering from there. This is not an examination. Your answers will tell me how to proceed with the inquiry. Please avoid answering from thought. If something is not yet clear, we will inquire further.
Sorry.
I froze up. I actually wrote these answers yesterday but I hesitated on sending them. I think I'm trying to get "The Right" answer. Really bad habit.
I'm excited to keep digging... thank you for your patience.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No. There never was. It’s hard to answer this in detail, since it’s very easy to say: nope, no self, me, I, anywhere, at all. There’s thoughts/other sensations and perception of thoughts/sensation. That’s all that can be apprehended, at least.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the self is a process of labelling thoughts with the thought of “I” or “Me”. This pattern of thoughts seems to arise in response to stimulus that is pleasurable, unpleasant, or indistinct. These types of sensations prompt a response in the organism which appears to be mirrored in the response of the mind. These thoughts usually carry a linguistic and narrative quality such as “I want that” “I want to get away from that” or “I’m bored”, etc.
Thoughts without linguistic narrative, and other sensations that pass without comment, contain no illusion of self- they simply pass without elaboration. When attention is placed on the sensation-as-such, the sense of self does not emerge- thoughts do not have the label “me” or “mine” or “I”.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
In some ways, there’s absolutely no difference. In others, the difference is quite great. For example, in meditation practice, and beyond, into cooking, cleaning, parenting, etc, it has become much easier to simply rest in what’s happening, without commenting. This is not a constant state, however. I do still notice ‘coming to’ , and suddenly noticing elaborate selfing taking place.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I don’t think there was a single moment. Trying to answer this question suggests that I am missing something here. There have been lots of little aha moments; especially reading the sutra you sent me. I felt like I really “got it” when I read that. There was a moment when I just looked around, and didn’t elaborate, and it made sense.
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
They are different thoughts, which come into awareness and disappear without prompting. I do not decide to have a given thought, or decide to stop having it. I, likewise, do not decide to become thirsty, or to get a drink. There can be sometimes mental content about ‘I should get a drink because I’m thirsty”, or “I have decided to move my arm and drink water”, but this organism would doubtless grab a drink whether I commented on the behaviour or not. Free will is strictly a conceptual framework. There can’t be free will in direct experience, as seeing that would imply a perspective outside of experience. Choice and control are similarly interesting patterns of thought. Basically just labels or comments on behaviours of the organism, as far as I can tell.
What makes things happen is a mystery to me. How does it work is even more so.
They just happen! There’s a little voice saying things as they happen, and sometimes telling itself they did it.
“ What makes the sky blue “ - I don’t know. I don’t know “What makes Albert choose to wear a black shirt instead of a green shirt” or whatever either.
This differs from my less recent experience in that I would have previously claimed some authorship of these events. Now, since there’s absolutely no evidence for any explanation of what makes me think one thing instead of another, or why it’s like that, all I can say is ‘I didn’t do it.”
I struggle to give a concrete example pointing to ‘how things happen’, although I can see clearly how difficult it would be to know. For instance, when I sit and examine my experience, thoughts appear without me prompting them. When I hear a sound, I hear it without deciding to. When I look in a mirror, I see myself without trying to.
None of these experiences were chosen with agency. They simply occurred and thoughts occurred in apparent response. But even this relationship is at best drawing a constellation. Is point a (thinking about how hungry I am) related to point b (making a sandwich)? It’s conjecture.
I don’t know how to even begin showing an example of “How this works”.
I’m putting words together, but I’m not 100% sure that they mean anything.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
This is a tough question. This organism has lots of responsibilities to itself and others. This ‘self’ , having no agency or even existence to speak of, could not really be said to be responsible for anything. “Albert” refers to a stack of thoughts and thoughts about thoughts.
I can’t see a single thing “I” am responsible for. I can see this person labelled “Albert” having all the same responsibilities as before, but not being responsible for anything, in the sense of having ‘made them happen’.
For example :
Thought of ‘anxiety’ regarding future finances arises. Albert did not create that thought , nor the responses to that thought. Therefore, Albert is not ‘responsible’ for it.
A feeling of pride in accomplishment arises. Albert has nothing to do with that feeling, is not there with it or made of it. Albert does not exist except as self reference - therefore, not responsible.
Albert’s kid needs food. I didn’t make the kid hungry , so she can just chew rocks. Not my problem. Except there’s something obviously wrong with that; this organism is responsible for what this organism is responsible for in the sense of ‘needing to do things’ and ‘having responsibilities’ . But in the sense of ‘doing things with agency’, Albert is totally without responsibility.
6) Anything to add?
Not really. Except that I know that I was lying to myself and, by extension, you, when I said I had no expectations going into this. I was definitely looking for those fireworks to go off.
Sitting and seeing ‘oh, I’m just not there’ was not what I wanted to see. I wanted a clean break, the end of samsara, true ‘stream entry’ or something else.
Sitting with knowing this - as much as I do- knowing that “I” am not calling the shots, that “I” am a habit, that thoughts are just thoughts, sensations are just sensations, body is just body, not me- it’s profound and it’s as much as I really need it to be. There is a lot of curiosity about what kind of questions could be asked from the perspective of no-self.
Meditation practice is much more interesting … the self simply not emerging from sensations and thoughts is a fascinating experience.
