Stop feeling bad and realizing the ultimate truth

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Do you think you do 'understand the truth'. Can you describe the point at which you saw through the illusion ?

Yes, I think there is an understanding of the truth. Whenever I wake up from a dream, there is a realisation that neither the character in the dream was true, nor the one after waking up even if all the emotions, feelings feels so real in both the states.
Also when I observe people, I realize their life, decisions, perception etc revolves around 'I' that they have created - this is also true for I that I have created.

You make a thousand decisions a day. Please observe exactly what is going on with each one. (as much as goes with road safety.)

With each of the decision, there is a realisation that things are happening the way it should, but still there is an 'I' involved in the decision to describe it's side of the story. 'I' subtly decides whether decision is good for 'me' or ' people related to me'; whether anything can be done to make sure that best decision is taken and there is no injustice.
There is a fearlessness regarding perception of other people. Overall decision making process has become easier, lighter, less sticky; but there are still thoughts involved, at times they are sticky, at times they are not.
Also there is a feeling of responsibility about people who are dependent on me so the mind starts planning what needs to be done to make sure that my loved ones have a good life.

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

Yes, I think there is an understanding of the truth.

That is worse than useless! You are relying on understanding rather than looking and looking a lot! There is no such 'thing' as truth out there to be understood; you see what is present in your experience or not.
Knowing how 'things should be' is getting in the way.

You have said there is acceptance now but it sounds more like resignation. Two totally different things.

"when I ask there is no answer" is only describing a state, not a seeing.

Your motivation seems to be getting past pain rather than a curiosity about what is and what is not actually there in experience. This is completely understandable, no one want to suffer , but never mind that now - just look.
I do not get the impression that you actually watched the decision making very much but rather described what is going on in thought.


Maybe look for feelings that are resisting 'just looking' . If that can relax then you can look at what actually occurs with decisions - over and over again !

All the best,
Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

I am sorry for delay in reply. I was trying to observe decision making but most of the decisions taken in a day are so automatic that it was very difficult to observe them.

For a few decisions that were taken consciously, initially thoughts rushed to say I want this or I don't want this. On observing these thoughts, there was a feeling of stress, heaviness in shoulder and neck. There were more thoughts of everything to be done right now so that mind can be free of this responsibility. There were some sensations felt in the stomach after these thoughts. On observing these sensations, there was nothing to be found, it was quiet. It felt like the wanting, not wanting didn't matter any more.

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

It's great the way you have stayed with sensations, it is the key to so much.

It felt like the wanting, not wanting didn't matter any more.

Nice! Didn't matter to whom?

When thoughts and sensations are there what is thinking and what is 'under'. the sensations? Look and let me know.

You need to look with curiosity, not to make any discomfort go away but to see what is going on.

As to decisions, do you remember the 2 drinks exercise and the hand raising? Do try them again and let me know the outcome.

There is nothing to be understood here, there is just looking at experience. Is the cat under the bed? Just look !

All the best,
Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Nice! Didn't matter to whom?

It didn't matter to the thought 'I'

When thoughts and sensations are there what is thinking and what is 'under'. the sensations? Look and let me know.

The first reaction to these questions is I. However upon looking further and experiencing rather than replying on thoughts, there is nothing to be found. There is a calmness, a stillness.

As to decisions, do you remember the 2 drinks exercise and the hand raising? Do try them again and let me know the outcome.

There was no one who made the decision. Decision happened but there was no decider.

There is nothing to be understood here, there is just looking at experience. Is the cat under the bed? Just look !

There is a lot of peace, calm. There is nothing to be found in experience; however there is still a feeling of I lurking around the corner.

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

A 'sense of self' will remain but you haven't said 'aha, there isn't any such 'thing' .' Absence of proof is not proof of absence !

It didn't matter to the thought 'I'

Is it just a thought or is there a belief in such an entity still in place?

The first reaction to these questions is I. However upon looking further and experiencing rather than replying on thoughts, there is nothing to be found. There is a calmness, a stillness.

Great. There is nothing to be found but it seems you have yet to find nothing !

There was no one who made the decision. Decision happened but there was no decider.

Great. Please keep looking, can you find such a thing as 'a decision' in experience ?

There is nothing to be found in experience; however there is still a feeling of I lurking around the corner.

Look round the corner!! Anything there?

All the best,

Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Hope you are doing well.

Correct, there is no aha moment, nor there is a search for one. But there is a difference in the way things appear to me. Earlier there was something in between me and the object looked at, now there is nothing.

Is it just a thought or is there a belief in such an entity still in place?

This answer is a little weird. There is no belief in I in the now; however there are things planned for the future that are dependent on I as per planning - so there must be belief in I that's why things planned for future are dependent on I.
On looking at this 'planning for future' closely, it is clear that it is just a thought and under the thought, it's empty.

Great. There is nothing to be found but it seems you have yet to find nothing !

There is no search for anything. It's just empty, calm, peaceful.

Great. Please keep looking, can you find such a thing as 'a decision' in experience ?

Decision is the event of choosing one option. There is no decision in the experience.

Look round the corner!! Anything there?

No, there is nothing around the corner

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

There is no belief in I in the now; however there are things planned for the future that are dependent on I as per planning - so there must be belief in I that's why things planned for future are dependent on I.

That sounds like it's still thought based. Seeing through the illusion does not effect planning using the word 'I' .

However,

On looking at this 'planning for future' closely, it is clear that it is just a thought

Yes, a thought is just a thought indeed.

under the thought, it's empty.

What is empty of what ?

All the best
Steve.

[ratnapani]

Hello again,

It still feels like this which I got from another guide when I asked for help !

" "when I ask there is no answer". she is not looking at all but using spiritual knowledge ie when I ask a question there is deep silence, or there is no answer etc. So she is spinning her own wheels and wondering why she isn't getting traction."

I do feel that silent states are enough for you and mean that there is not really looking. Looking is not searching - searching suggests that something 'other' is wanted.
Maybe try looking while really uncomfortable and not at peace that can work really well !!

All the best,
Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Your reply did make me a lot uncomfortable because I thought I had made progress and was close to knowing the truth. After reading your reply, there were a lot of thoughts of disappointment and these thoughts were accompanied with unpleasant feelings. It was like I would suffocate to these thoughts and feelings. I started allowing feelings to come; then the feelings and thoughts subsided after sometime. Upon looking, there was attention on the sensations felt, I tried looking under the sensations and then the sensations subsided. After a few moments of observing, I realised that whatever I put attention on, was becoming real/coming into existence for me. When I didn't put attention on anything, there is just a open space. When I opened my eyes, I was able to feel a lot of energy pulsating throughout the body. There is an awareness of this pulsating energy. There is a peace along with the pulsating feeling which feels good but somehow I know that these are all experiences in some way - this peace, this pulsating energy, sensations, thoughts etc.

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

Lovely ! Really nice.

'Understanding the truth'? What is there to understand ? Is anyone there to understand 'it' ?

whatever I put attention on, was becoming real/coming into existence for me.

Yeah! Does that attention belong to anyone? Can you find her? Relax, open the heart, look.

All the best,
Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Sorry I had missed your reply. I visited the post today to see if there is anything and realized you had already replied.

Understanding the truth'? What is there to understand ? Is anyone there to understand 'it' ?

There is no truth as such. It's just the shift in perspective. From the perspective of 'there are things and there is I' to the perspective of 'things exist only if attention goes on them'.

Yeah! Does that attention belong to anyone? Can you find her? Relax, open the heart, look.

If there was an I, there was attention. If there was only looking, there was no attention and no I.

This means if there is an I, then there is an attention and then there are other things.

On further looking, if there is no I, there is no attention , everything is there ( it's hard to explain this- not that there are 'different' things, just that everything is there).

Regards
Seenam

[ratnapani]

Hi Seenam,

Sorry for the delay, I've been a bit distracted.

What you write sounds so very close but I'm afraid I'm running out of 'tricks'. I actually don't know what to ask next.

I'd like to leave it here I'm afraid but I can ask for another, more experienced, guide to continue if you like.

All the best,
Steve.

[Search1207]

Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply. Yes, it would be indeed very helpful if someone can guide me further

Regards
Seenam

[Bananafish]

Hello, Seenam. :)


My name is Kento, and would be more than glad to guide you
further.


As we are starting the inquiry anew, please set aside anything you've
realized (be it intellectually or experientially) so far, and start as a blank
slate. Please refrain from comparing the process and the result of inquiry with
the previous ones, as that might induce confusion.

Would that be ok for you?


If that's ok, I would start posting questions in the next post.


Looking forward to your reply!

Kento