Freedom

[Bananafish]

Hm, that sounds a bit theoretical.

When you’re writing a reply here,
is it you writing as a part of universe?

Could you observe what’s here and now,
when you’re writing, and give a
precise (but not theoretical) description of
reality?

[Katydidnext]

As I write this reply, I am part of the universe. The fingers are tapping on these keys.There is a breeze blowing in through the window - cool air on skin. Sounds of traffic in the background. Birds calling. Slight ache in back - thought - "lean back into chair". Slightly tired sensation around eyes - thought -"I could do with more sleep". Sound of aeroplane. Reach out and pick up glass . Drink of water - coolness in mouth-thought "water, staff of life" Thought - "Is this what you want?"

[Bananafish]

Is there a division between "part" and "universe?"

If so, where is the dividing line?

[Katydidnext]

There is no division
I am life

[Bananafish]

"I am life."


Would you, as precisely as possible, describe reality
by modifying the above phrase a bit?


How would it be?

[Katydidnext]

Life at this moment is this body made up of earth,water and energy; breathing in air, touching the keys of the computer and sitting in a chair, sensations of touch and contact/pressure. Also thoughts and feelings arising/appearing out of nowhere and going nowhere, disolving into thin air if I don't add to them. All these processes are flowing without any direction unless the thinking mind gets hooked up and creates a story. All these processes are unfolding.

[Bananafish]

Hi Katy. :)

Let's have a look at what you call the "thinking mind."

Would you try catching the moment mind thinks thoughts?
What do you find out?

[Katydidnext]

Hi there,
I found that I couldn't catch the moment the mind thinks thoughts. The thoughts simply appeared.
I went for a walk on the beach. Thoughts arose following a sensation - so I saw the sea and thought "wow, that is very grey and choppy" I felt the strong wind in my face and body and laughed out loud with pleasure and the thought appeared "this is great" The wind blowing my hair - feeling of excitement. Very grey clouds - thoughts of appreciation and awe.

So I found out that thoughts appear following a sensation or emotion, in response to that sensation/experience (maybe describing it, appreciating or jsut a response of pleasure or discomfort - when it rained)
Sometimes a thought followed a previous thought as a response or building a story or explanation.
All the thoughts and emotions were a response to either a sensation or a sudden thought (out of the blue - not dependent on any other sensation)

Katy

[Bananafish]

Hi Katy. :)

Thank you!

Previously you wrote that you feel
distant from others.

Is that how it still feels?

[Katydidnext]

Hi there,
I have realised that what I called the thinking mind is merely the thinking function & that the mind can't make a thought, that thoughts just happen. We can think through a problem when we are using the thinking function.

It is hard to describe feeling distant - certainly more space/spaciousness as if I am seeing things from a hill-top. It still feels like that.

Katy

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)

Who is it that uses the thinking function?

Also, who is it that is seeing from a distance?

[Katydidnext]

Hi,
I would say it is awareness

Katy

[Bananafish]

When you are looking at the
computer display, would you describe
it as awareness looking at the display?

[Katydidnext]

No, I wouldn't say awareness is looking at the computer.
I want to say that it is the thinking function - then we are back to the previous question "Who uses the thinking function?"
Nobody does - it just does it's stuff
I seem to be making a division between thinking and awareness; the first relates to functions and the second relates to a sense of presence or aliveness. This latter is there all the time. There is a belief that awareness is bigger than the mind and is interpersonal, not boundaried by individuals. This is part of Buddhist teaching which seems to fit with my experiences of being in touch with something much bigger than this self. Lke the wave in the sea.

Katy

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)

Ok, let's have a look at that particular belief.


When you say "something bigger than this self," what exactly is that "self?"