Ready.....

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:44 pm

What this investigation is about is to discern between reality and fantasy.
What is undeniably true and can be verified in present experience on the one hand,
what is just thought content, assumption and belief on the other hand.
This is true in the beginning, in the middle and in the end.

Would that mean that it does not exist without it?
Have a look at an object.
Then turn around.
Does the object still exist?

If the answer is yes, isn't that an assumption?

Do others have their own thoughts and feelings?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Lerae
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Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:08 pm

Do others have their own thoughts and feelings?
If I said yes thar would be an assumption also. In reality, thoughts and feelings do not exist; they only appear and disappear within the illusion in which we are all a part of.

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:25 pm

We don't have to go that far in The Gate.
These aspects are better covered in a further investigation in the post-gate-area.
What do you say? Do we wanna wrap up the conversation here?

If so:
Could you give me a big fat YES that the illusion of a separate self was seen through?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Lerae
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Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:27 pm

A big fat Yes!!😁

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Matthew
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Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Alright cool :D

Then here come the final questions:



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Please describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Looking forward to your answers!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Lerae
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:09 am

Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:09 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There has never been a separate self.

2) Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion begins at a very early age, approximately 2, or even younger, when parents begin to teach the child that they are separate by ensuring they understand the label (name) given belongs to them and teaching them various labels for other objects/people. They also begin praising them or punishing them for things they do. Prior to that, the child just is and is unaffected by what is going on around it. As time goes on the child begins to take credit for doing things, good or bad, and develops accordingly, forgetting the initial experience of oneness and just "being". Eventually, the little being believes that they have control and free will to make decisions regarding how to live "their" life. From this belief, shame, guilt, pain, pride, arrogance, selfishness arise, which eventually wear the being down and result in suffering. Suffering includes anxiety, depression, grief and various disorders. When the being gets tired of suffering, the seeking for safety, for truth, for home begins, which has been there all along.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels liberating to see this. When I started this dialogue, I was desperately seeking answers to freedom and peace from emotions. The attachment to thoughts and emotions is minor now and quickly recognized and released. It is easy to return home to the serenity of just "being". Things appear to be happening in a more natural way, where before I believed I controlled it all. I feel more grateful for my experiencing now that it is understood that I am not doing it. It also feels like more of an adventure, like....what will unfold next?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I was well on my way by this point, however, I was stuck on thoughts and decisions and where they come from. Once I was able to see that in actual experience, they do not exist, I was free!! :)

5) Please describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all part of the illusion. They are thoughts we have come to believe in order to navigate the story of "me". I am not responsible for anything as there is no "I" to be responsible and nothing is happening in actual experience. In actual experience there is only the flow of life taking place. In the illusion, I created a story to make myself feel important or special, unique and separate from others. As I let go of this experience, I see that life is just happening and does not need my input at all.

6) Anything to add?

It has been mystifying to see how perception can be so twisted and how so much is wasted on things that are not even real. I am so grateful for "seeing" this and look forward to whatever comes...……...

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 am

I will show our conversation to the other guides and see whether they have any additional questions.

I'll be in touch soon!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:49 am

Hi Matthew

Reading Lerae's thread I found this :
. . I would say I feel more neutral and less negatively affected by others or situations and less judgmental, but I am not feeling oneness with everything...
This aspect is usually covered in a different part of the forum, which is not yet visible for you.
I'd say we wrap up the conversation here and look at the other aspects of reality over there.
To me this looks like the client has an expectation and I would like you to ask Lerae if there is still concern that there should be 'feeling of oneness'?
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Lerae
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:09 am

Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:09 am

There is no concern at all. It is just something I have heard others experience and recognize that it is not my experience. I do not feel like I expect anything or that my experience should be any particular way. While I don’t see or feel oneness, I also do not see or feel separation if that makes any sense.....

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Matthew
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Location: Your dreams

Re: Ready.....

Postby Matthew » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:30 am

There are no more questions. I've sent you a PM!
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.

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Lerae
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:09 am

Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:07 pm

Hi Matthew! Can you tell me what you mean by PM?

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Lerae
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Re: Ready.....

Postby Lerae » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:24 pm

I found it!!! Thank you!


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