hide and seek

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

There are no further questions for you. Congratulations for seeing through the self and for your persistent looking. It has been a pleasure to explore the concept of the separate self with you. Thank you for being open and willing to look.

Keep an eye out for an email notification notifying you of a PM (private message) from the forum inviting you to join our aftercare groups on Facebook. If you don't receive an email notification, you can access your PM's from the forum once you have logged in. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions via private message here on the forum, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Vivien

[Forestfriend]

Loads of thanks for all your perseverance and kindness.

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

Loads of thanks for all your perseverance and kindness.

You are very welcome :)

I was thinking about your last response and I talked to another guide and we agreed that you might benefit from some more guiding. Are you OK with that?

but I forgot to mention how much my expectations were keeping the ‘self’ in place by desiring the seeing of no self to produce some awesome and constant state.

Is this desire that seeing no self should produce some awesome and constant state is still there?

How things have been since we finished the conversation?

How does it feel now that there is no self?

Vivien

[Forestfriend]

I wasn't looking for more on this thread so I missed it yesterday. However, I'd be glad to continue.

Is this desire that seeing no self should produce some awesome and constant state is still there?

No it isn’t. It’s clear now that that was an idea that was seized upon long ago, and reinforced by various influences. Only a self can imagine a state to enjoy or suffer.

How things have been since we finished the conversation?

Very much the same. There is just a little peaceful remove that comes at intervals. Disturbances are the same, but shorter lived.

How does it feel now that there is no self?

Generally the same old feelings run their courses. There is also a soft quiet feeling that is empty of labels and very gentle and open. It punctuates the day. It comes like a breeze and is gone without regret, then, after a while, it comes again.

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

We can do some very simple but deep lookings. Please forget about all the concepts and notions we looked at before. Forget about AE, forget about dividing experience into thoughts, sensation, sound, color, etc. Forget everything.

We are going to strip away as much intellectualization as possible. We are going down to bare bones. To the simplest simplicity.

Let’s look at the questions with the eyes of a little child, who has no intellectual knowledge about how things work.
Please look at the display before you.

Now, could you tell me where you are looking at it FROM?

WHAT is there? What do you find there?

Vivien

[Forestfriend]

Hi Vivien

Now, could you tell me where you are looking at it FROM?

There is no from to be found and no ‘you’ doing the looking. The little homunculus that lived behind the eyes is nowhere to be found. There is space and there is focus simultaneously. The looking is everywhere all at once.

WHAT is there? What do you find there?

Lots of interesting stuff ( images and ideas) in a a great welcoming homey spaciousness.

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

Please look at the display in front of you.

Is there a seer + seeing + seen?
Are all the 3 there?

Is there anything that you are uncertain of and you would like to look at it?

Vivien

[Forestfriend]

Hi Vivien,

Parties and preparations. I'll write tomorrow.

[Forestfriend]

Hi Vivien,

Please look at the display in front of you.

Is there a seer + seeing + seen?
Are all the 3 there?

No. There is no seer. Thought and language bring up a seer but that seer is fiction, a convenience of speech. And seeing and seen are one, simultaneous.

Is there anything that you are uncertain of and you would like to look at it?

Emotion looks like thought coming at the same time as physical sensation. If the thought is let go the sensation is not particularly important or consistent, and it passes rather quickly. When the thought is kept, the sensation will hold out with the thought. Where do feelings come in? Do you consider those the same as emotions? There is a general sense of appreciation for everything, but where does love come in?

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

If the thought is let go the sensation is not particularly important or consistent, and it passes rather quickly. When the thought is kept, the sensation will hold out with the thought.

What is it that is letting go a thought?
And what is it that is keeping the thought?

Really look, and try to find the one that has the power to let go or to keep a thought.

There is a general sense of appreciation for everything, but where does love come in?

What is it that is concerned about the lack or the presence of love?
What is it that wants love to be present?
What is missing love?
Who/what would benefit for feeling love?

Please look very carefully with each question. Be careful not to reply with the automatic reaction that ‘of course there is no me, but rather actively look again and again for this supposed one.

Vivien

[Forestfriend]

Hi Vivien,

What is it that is letting go a thought?

No one really, It’s language. The language I habitually use is full of verbs that imply doers. And if the seeing of no doer was clear and constant, that language might change.

And what is it that is keeping the thought?

Nothing but the content of thought can shift to something else or the next thought can contain again something the same or similar.

Really look, and try to find the one that has the power to let go or to keep a thought.

There is no one that has the power to let go or keep a thought. Whatever happens is just what happens and believing in the self and seeing that there is no self happen. Thoughts are believed and not believed. It doesn’t take any ‘one’ to do it.

FF: There is a general sense of appreciation for everything, but where does love come in?
V: What is it that is concerned about the lack or the presence of love?

Nothing really. To tell the truth, I was groping for a question.
A memory repeated as a thought that says certain things others have said are important is thinking concern about love. There are lots of thoughts about how things should be, it doesn’t mean they matter.

What is it that wants love to be present?

Really nothing. There is only a thought that it is important.

What is missing love?

Nothing is missing love. Whatever is essential is already here and perfect beyond description. In this case love is only a word in a thought.

Who/what would benefit for feeling love?

No one could benefit. Benefit and loss are concepts that don’t apply to actual reality.

[Vivien]

Hi Forestfriend,

I showed our conversation to the other guide again, and we agreed that your replies are clear now. There are no more questions for you.

In a few days, your name will turn blue, and you will be invited to various FB groups. You will get private messages from admin. This might take a few days.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions via private message here on the forum, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Love,
Vivien

[Forestfriend]

Thank you so much, Vivien, for sticking with it so long. This has been a much appreciated interlude.
I appreciate your efforts vey much.

[Forestfriend]

No! not efforts, expression and attention. Thanks again.

[Vivien]

You are very welcome :)

If anything comes up in the future, feel free to contact me.

Love,
Vivien