Frihet

[pia]

Hi!

Thank you for responding with clarity once again!

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

—Yes this is clear. With separation there would not be life or living or bodies or other labelled perceived objects since it is all connected and without core.

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

-Yes life cannot be controlled. There is no one to control it either. It is obvious when relating to the past- a fetus or cells coming into being- there is no distinct start and end to a human being. So there has never been a separate living individual and there is no control of life connected.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

-No choices just happen, corresponding to the conditions in response to contact. So who is doing the looking here at LU and who is guiding? Who is writing in this very moment?
It seems to be a collection in the moment of thoughts and experiences that responds, making choices based on what is there moment to moment but nobody owns it or direct it, just like the weather.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

-No there are no separate individuals and therefore no responsibility connected to it. I hope this seeing does not contradict the necessity to take responsibility of “our” actions, knowing that there is no you and me. Instead now with clarity seeing that there is also no one to blame but a responsibility to look at happenings with care and love in accordance with the insight of no separation and to learn from what happened.

Is there a thinker of thought?

- No thoughts just comes out of nowhere. No one thinks them, they seem to land in awareness and they leave quickly they are like clouds on the sky.

Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?

- There are no separate selfs or things! So there has never been one or anything -it is an illusion.

Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?

-The self can’t be found it is just a word.

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

-There is no inside or outside in the first place and no self anywhere perceiving things.

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?

- Yes in the beginning there was a lot of resistance and fear that revealing this truth would make life dull and limited but also a taste and longing for freedom when signing in. Now there is no fear or negativity seeing this more clearly. But seeing how deep rooted the illusion is in the system- this view has been predominant for so long- and that it will take time to integrate more fully this perspective in life is challenging.

I

s there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

-Feeling unsure if the non self is seen through because if using the parallel of Santa when knowing that it is an illusion it can never be reversed believing in Santa again. Now seeing that there is no self does not immediately change the whole view in all ordinary life that easy -an effort is needed in most times in order to have the shift seeing the truth. But some effects comes naturally, feeling less heavy by burdens not carrying on for example feelings or problems that are not belonging to me or anywhere. But finding it important to use this wisdom lessening suffering living more fully and happily! Feeling more free and happy though which is nice in the midst of some problems and worries!

A question do we work with the other fetters here in LU also?

Sending love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Thank you for responding with clarity once again!

Thank you for your dedicated good looking.

See. Same thing thanking itself :))))

I hope this seeing does not contradict the necessity to take responsibility of “our” actions, knowing that there is no you and me

Hope ? For imaginary tomorrow ?
Do you need to worry for an imaginary contradiction ?
IS there right or wrong to have a contradiction ?
Can you chose something that is not right ?
Are you responsible from ANYTHING ?

Now seeing that there is no self does not immediately change the whole view in all ordinary life that easy

What is the expectation Pia ? Life will be full of bliss ? No pain only pleasure ?
Isn't it enough to feel less heavy" ? :)
There is no one to change. But the perception changes by daily looking.
Daily looking is the very much key and this will go on eventually ;)

question do we work with the other fetters here in LU also?

I could not understand this one Pia sorry,
What is fetters ?
:)


Sending much love

[pia]

Hi!

Hope ? For imaginary tomorrow ?

Ok it is the mind worrying that seeing everything as it is could be nihilistic and unethical not taking wise action when needed. Instead it is helpful to stop producing thoughts and see in teach moment that there is no separation between me and others and that we don’t exist anyway which will lead to wise responses within that wider perspective.

Do you need to worry for an imaginary contradiction ?

No unethical actions have not followed the training here so far on the contrary it is a great help.

IS there right or wrong to have a contradiction ?

A contradiction is a concept of mind so it does not exist and then the right and wrongs fall apart.

Can you chose something that is not right ?

No choices just happen in the moment that just are so they cannot be right or wrong.

Are you responsible from ANYTHING ?

No I do not exist so I cannot be responsible.

What is the expectation Pia ? Life will be full of bliss ? No pain only pleasure ?

Ok expectations are mind products and not helpful. Although knowing this there is an expectation to be more in direct contact with what is already there in the moment whatever we call it awareness or the non self or non separated unknownness.

Isn't it enough to feel less heavy" ? :)

The comment was on seeing through Santa’s non existence which is a direct shift compared to looking at the non self loosing the perspective again and again although knowing it is true. Ok, to be with what there is without expectations and comparing or judging is good enough. Celebrating what is good mourning what is bad without hatching on to and identifying with the feelings or thoughts is very good too.

I could not understand this one Pia sorry,
What is fetters ?

In Buddhas teaching the ten fetters are mentioned that leds to freedom. Where the first one is seeing through the non self and the next is working with suffering connected to the illusion of self, then there is rites and rituals, greed, hatred etc.
My question was if in LU we work with seeing through the self but are there more steps?


Bye for now,love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Are you responsible from ANYTHING ?
No I do not exist so I cannot be responsible.

Sure.
Life is living its own life.
It is it's game.
It appears like the way it wants.
There is no control, no free will, no choice as you saw..

When all is automatic who can be responsible for anything :)

In Buddhas teaching the ten fetters are mentioned that leds to freedom. Where the first one is seeing through the non self and the next is working with suffering connected to the illusion of self, then there is rites and rituals, greed, hatred etc.
My question was if in LU we work with seeing through the self but are there more steps?

With all respect to all kinds of teachings.
Nothing is thought here :)
There is no steps, stairs, gate, levels...

When you realize Santa is not real did you use any steps..

Or was it the simple recognition of what is not real ? ;)

[adilerten]

Hey Pia,

Let's look at this idea of time shall we ?

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving? Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

[pia]

Hi!

When you realize Santa is not real did you use any steps..Or was it the simple recognition of what is not real ? ;)

The Santa fake was realised without steps.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

There are sensed experiences, they are in constant change and have multiple inputs not in a line. When trying it out just now the sound of the silence is a bit dominating than other sensed impressions but it is not linear either.
Surprisingly enough there is not one event following another the mind then has to get involved and construct this idea.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving? Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began? How long does the ‘now’ last? Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'? What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

The present moment does not move when experiencing it. It is like getting older there is no actual experience of it or like with emotions they appear and mix independently of time or past or present.Time is a construction nothing is linear.

That is all for today,

[adilerten]

The Santa fake was realised without steps.

Sure dear. For sure.

there is not one event following another the mind then has to get involved and construct this idea

Brilliant looking. Sure. Thought constracts this idea to house all experience in order to understand

Thank you

[adilerten]

So if there is no time at all..

What is cause and effect ?

Can something cause anything ?

[adilerten]

for one day do this:

Become aware of when the word 'BECAUSE' shows up in thoughts. The word 'because' points to a reason why something is happening, and further points to a ‘me’ that this something is happening to!

By becoming aware of ‘because’ you can start to break the cycle of believing that emotions are happening to a you and that you are somehow in control of what reactions and/or emotions appear.

For example, let’s say frustration has appeared, and the thought arises saying "I am frustrated BECAUSE the traffic is grid locked and I have been sitting here for ages and I just want to get home". Don't just go along with that. STOP and LOOK. Can 'frustration' actually be found and known, and can an "I” actually be found and known that is actually ‘frustrated’

What generally happens is that there is an ownership of the frustration, BECAUSE of………...(fill in the blank), and this is what seems to evoke the idea that there is an “I” that is suffering due to being frustrated with something called traffic conditions!

So is the ‘frustration’ an actual problem?
Is the idea of an “I who is frustrated” an actual problem and is the idea of being “stuck in traffic” an actual problem?
Or is it the thoughts about a “me who is frustrated about traffic” that seems to create problems? It is the idea that “frustration” and “I” shouldn’t appear that makes it a problem. There is nothing wrong with concepts…it is only a problem when concepts are believed.

So it seems like a person is frustrated due to being stuck in traffic. Here is a partial list of the beliefs involved with this idea and need to be looked at.

1) there is traffic

2) that the traffic is causing frustration

3) that there is a ‘me’ here and traffic ‘out there’

3) you (a person) is frustrated

4) and that the frustration is felt in something called a body

If you STOP and LOOK, you will notice that all that is appearing is the actual experience as sensation.
Everything else is just story – the traffic, cause, effect, separation, frustration and a body. There is just sensation appearing in the dream and a fairytale story to go along with it.

So with this in mind, so to speak, is there a problem with the sensation?
Does the sensation need to change or leave?
Does the story about being frustrated due to traffic condition need to change or leave or never appear again?

So…try this out for one day…. focus on BECAUSES and see how you get on.

Look out for:-

I am guilty because
I am tired because
I am hungry because
I am ashamed because
I am happy because
I am smart because
I am angry because
I am afraid because
I am stupid because
I need to pee because
I am annoyed because
I am sick because
I am irritated because
I am frustrated because
I am disappointed because...

and tell me how you go ok ?

[pia]

Hi Adil!

So if there is no time at all..What is cause and effect ?
Can something cause anything ?

So without the concept of time then there is no cause and effects. How strange!
Then nothing can cause anything so this falls too. Everything just is.

Ok looking on the because.......

Here comes three examples from today;
1) I am tired because I had to go up early on my free day.
Beliefs; expectations on how a free day is before it has happened- this is mere thinking and has nothing to do with reality. Identification that there is an I being tired. Translation of sensations in body to tiredness. View that tiredness is something lasting and existing. View that there is a body suffering from this.
In reality; what happens is that the bodily sensations gets stronger by making up a story with thoughts around what is happening, whereas the direct experience of the sensations vary from moment to moment. The thoughts creates the idea of being tired.

2) I was disappointed because they did not have what I wanted in the cafe today (the right type of milk for my coffee :).
Beliefs ;that the cafe is set up for a me and my expectations and needs. That there is something which is me that have needs. And that the coffe craving have to be met. That the lack of the right type of milk causes frustration in something called me. Thoughts that this me are frustrated. This list can be very long......
In reality there is nothing at all focused around me. My thoughts and expectations creates the frustration which also is just a concept and sensations are coming and going and vary.

3) I am worried because of what my son is doing...
Beliefs; there is “me” and there is “my” son and we are separated and what we do has an effect on the other. There is an “I” causing the worry in me. There is a me being worried. The contractions felt in “my body” is labelled worry.
So in reality there is no separation and no time and therefore it all falls as fake news. In direct experience there are sensations in chest now without any permanence or stability or linear connection to har my son is doing.

So there seems to be so many illusions and knots in daily life. This need to be looked at continuously.

Good night,
Pia

[adilerten]

Hi Adil!

So if there is no time at all..What is cause and effect ?
Can something cause anything ?

So without the concept of time then there is no cause and effects. How strange!
Then nothing can cause anything so this falls too. Everything just is.

Perfect seeing!
Everything is just... IS!

Ok looking on the because.......
Here comes three examples from today;
1) I am tired because I had to go up early on my free day.
Beliefs; expectations on how a free day is before it has happened- this is mere thinking and has nothing to do with reality. Identification that there is an I being tired. Translation of sensations in body to tiredness. View that tiredness is something lasting and existing. View that there is a body suffering from this.
In reality; what happens is that the bodily sensations gets stronger by making up a story with thoughts around what is happening, whereas the direct experience of the sensations vary from moment to moment. The thoughts creates the idea of being tired.

2) I was disappointed because they did not have what I wanted in the cafe today (the right type of milk for my coffee :).
Beliefs ;that the cafe is set up for a me and my expectations and needs. That there is something which is me that have needs. And that the coffe craving have to be met. That the lack of the right type of milk causes frustration in something called me. Thoughts that this me are frustrated. This list can be very long......
In reality there is nothing at all focused around me. My thoughts and expectations creates the frustration which also is just a concept and sensations are coming and going and vary.

3) I am worried because of what my son is doing...
Beliefs; there is “me” and there is “my” son and we are separated and what we do has an effect on the other. There is an “I” causing the worry in me. There is a me being worried. The contractions felt in “my body” is labelled worry.
So in reality there is no separation and no time and therefore it all falls as fake news. In direct experience there are sensations in chest now without any permanence or stability or linear connection to har my son is doing.

So there seems to be so many illusions and knots in daily life. This need to be looked at continuously.

Good night,
Pia

Yes Pia.
Wonderful work here.
Thank you for your dedicated work on behalf of Life :)

Sure as you say "daily looking" is very much key.
This "no self" realization is not the end of the road, suffering or beliefs..
There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing..

Now Pia,
What is the main difference from when you first started this exploration to now? How does it feel to realise this?

- Has anything changed? What hasn't changed?

- Is seeking still going on?

- Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?

[pia]

Hi!

What is the main difference from when you first started this exploration to now? How does it feel to realise this?

- Has anything changed? What hasn't changed?

- Is seeking still going on?

- Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?

Recently there was a reaction with thoughts how this is too dry and gets lonely and without love and care and ethics. Talking to some friends helped to change the perspective. In direct experience when hatching off reactions or not having them altogether is a relief, it is calmer and it changes the sense of separation for example when in stress having an image of the mind as separate and contractions in body as something else painful and separate. When shifting perspective to non separation and actual experience instead there is a sense of stillness, richness, openness and fullness. So it is worthwhile to work further on these long life illusions and to recognise when thoughts constructs something cold and distant in a fictive world. It is clearer now than before when direct experience and stories and more trust in looking than before (less fear) so it is easier to learn from the daily pitfalls of illusions.There is also a sense of being more responsible for this life than before.

So what has not changed? Many things. Habits of eating when stressed or not hatching off thoughts of what “I” need when in negative mental states for example.Creating all kind of fears with mind and acting on them. Falling in to achieving linear goals and loosing the perspective of non separation, spilling out energy and so it goes on....

What is meant by this question “ is seeking still going on”, seeking what? If you mean looking the answer is yes, this needs to be on the agenda everyday.

There is a question how to implement this looking of the non self in everyday life and to keep remembering the truth so that it gradually can be a clearer sight? Also how to protect the process from thoughts building up nihilism.


That’s will be all for today,
Pia

[adilerten]

Thank you for your honest answers Pia

What is meant by this question “ is seeking still going on”, seeking what? If you mean looking the answer is yes, this needs to be on the agenda everyday.

What was meant here was..
Seeking spiritual books, videos, other channels to stop suffering..

There is a question how to implement this looking of the non self in everyday life and to keep remembering the truth so that it gradually can be a clearer sight? Also how to protect the process from thoughts building up nihilism.

"You" cannot do anything about this.
It gradually happens or not.
There is no one to control or act on this.
Daily looking happens or not.
There is nothing to protect,
Can you choose something that is not right ?
What is right what is wrong ?

and there is nothing called nihilism.
These are just words.

NOW stop belief in concepts!
Stop believing right or wrong!

What happens just happens, no reason, no control, no doer!
Can you this ?

[adilerten]

How is the feeling ?
Is there still "someone" behind the eyes or in the chest or head ?
Where are you ?

[pia]

Hi!

What was meant here was..
Seeking spiritual books, videos, other channels to stop suffering..

I do listen to for ex Adyshantis led meditations and get inspired inquiring also in meditation and read some texts once in a while, but my main focus has been this inquiry since it started. I also find it very helpful to paint and to be in nature with a wider perspective forgetting about the self that does not exist anyway....

Can you choose something that is not right ?
What is right what is wrong ?

Ok choices are made they are as they are -again-it is the mind that constructs these ideas interpreting reality (with right or wrong/ good or bad etc) not being connected and coming from disconnection and separation. Creating difficulties in life.

What happens just happens, no reason, no control, no doer!
Can you this ?

Can I this?? What do you mean by that question? I do get the point that there is no doer, no one is inside the brain and the thoughts are not in control or command the full implications of this seeing just have to sink in to life by itself.

How is the feeling ?
Is there still "someone" behind the eyes or in the chest or head ?
Where are you ?

No there is no one hiding behind the eyes or elsewhere!
I am not here and I am not there either it really just is a flow of everything!

Good night for now,
Pia