Longing for nothing

[barb]

I am not able to find the source of the decision. Even if I say to myself for example "I will look at the light" it is a thought perception and everything follows/is done or not.But there is no decision as such. I see that in retrospect I could then say "I decided to look up at the light" but that is not truth. Just the thought perception that iniciates or not the happening..

Well recognized...

How does this „waiting for some kind of miraculous insight“ look like? With which sense are you able to perceive it? Is it to see-hear-feel-smell-taste? Or is „waiting for insight“ thought content, based on your story of spiritual seeking. LOOK carefully!
It is the content of the thought. Only in my DE which is only the thought perception then.

:)

As you pointed out earlier I should not be interested in the content.

Can you decide or control if there is interest in thought content or not? Or is this another thing that happens on its own?

Only the repeated looking at whether thoughts have something to do with reality and if the separate "I" is more than a thought can reveal the illusion... :)

There is sadness about it. Mainly connected to the past..the "past Sonia" that is not anymore (rather than there never was..strange).The Sonia that was a good musician,that was a good friend for some,daughter and sister. The sadness is only about the past not the future or not now.

Is the past more than thought story? Can you find „past“ with direct experience?
Is „Sonia“ more than a habitual label? Take a piece of paper and write on it the name „Sonia“. Does the paper now become to „Sonia“?
And no worries, it is a big difference between there is no separate „I“, no „Sonia“, and you don't exist... There is existence, isn't it? But does existence need separate entities?...;)

And also little bit of fear reading there is no one who thinks and decides. Again the fear is felt in my core somewhere but is not so strong as the sadness.
This really makes me sad.Very sad. I am so surprised by this emotion in response to your text

Very good... :) Please try to animate the sadness again, try to create this emotion, invite it. Then look at it: What is it made of? What of it is thought and what is bodily sensation? Now ignore all thoughts and look directly into the emotion, give it permission to stay as long as it wants, give it a big hug...Allow everything that comes up. Tears, rage, whatever... And then look behind the sadness... What is there? Can you find anything there?

_()_

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,

Can you decide or control if there is interest in thought content or not? Or is this another thing that happens on its own? 

Actually no. The interest in thought either happens or not. It is again only perceived.
I can't trace anyone who is in control of whether to elaborate on thought or not. It just happens.
That is another big revelation😁

Sorry Barb,I had a long day and really need to sleep while I am doing this. I will continue looking and I will answer you tomorrow with the text I still need to address.
Hope it's ok..
Thank you🙏

[barb]

Sure, no stress... take the time you need, we are not on the run... :)

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,
Back to the last email..

Is the past more than thought story? Can you find „past“ with direct experience? 
Is „Sonia“ more than a habitual label? Take a piece of paper and write on it the name „Sonia“. Does the paper now become to „Sonia“? 

I can see the thought about past time can be recognised and labeled only as a thought perception. If I follow it and get lost in it I see it would be only the story but is not the DE. In DE I cannot find any past.
And I can see "Sonia" is really only the label. It really is only a name. When I see it written on the paper it is insignificant mark and doesn't change anything on the quality of paper.

Please try to animate the sadness again, try to create this emotion, invite it. Then look at it: What is it made of? What of it is thought and what is bodily sensation? Now ignore all thoughts and look directly into the emotion, give it permission to stay as long as it wants, give it a big hug...Allow everything that comes up. Tears, rage, whatever... And then look behind the sadness... What is there? Can you find anything there? 

When I am reading again your text (there is no I,never existed,no separate self as Sonia...) the emotion feels very strong around my heart this time. When I strip it of the thought only the perception of sensation remains. It is only the sense perception then in my DE.
And when I look behind or through this sensation there is nothing. I cannot point to anything. Nothing is not the correct word for this. It just has no support of anything else behind it. There is no quality. Only the feeling of the sensation.
I am not sure whether those emotions are supposed to stay or change.. maybe I should spent more time inviting those emotions?They don't change..anytime I look to this text it raises up again and I have again this tight painful sensation around my heart...:/
But at the same time I can see clearly they are only sense perception. There is no Sonia to experience it.It is just perception...

[barb]

Actually no. The interest in thought either happens or not. It is again only perceived.
I can't trace anyone who is in control of whether to elaborate on thought or not. It just happens.
That is another big revelation

Wonderful :)

I can see the thought about past time can be recognised and labeled only as a thought perception. If I follow it and get lost in it I see it would be only the story but is not the DE. In DE I cannot find any past.
And I can see "Sonia" is really only the label. It really is only a name. When I see it written on the paper it is insignificant mark and doesn't change anything on the quality of paper.

Yes

When I am reading again your text (there is no I,never existed,no separate self as Sonia...) the emotion feels very strong around my heart this time.

Try to create the sensation again... Breathe softly and slowly, make the exhale longer than the inhale, relax as good as possible, close the eyes...
No matter if you could create the emotion again, bring attention to the area which you call „my heart“, and feel the sensations there.

Then look: Can there a heart be found in DE? Does the raw sensing anything know about "heart"? Is there any border findable? Where does the sensation begin, where does it end? What makes the heart to „your“ heart?
Can you find someone who owns the heart?

When I strip it of the thought only the perception of sensation remains. It is only the sense perception then in my DE.
And when I look behind or through this sensation there is nothing.

Very good... What if this „nothingness“ is the answer? Gaze into this nothingness!

I cannot point to anything. Nothing is not the correct word for this. It just has no support of anything else behind it. There is no quality.

Yes, the closer we get to the absolute, the harder it is to describe it in words. We need words to communicate, but they can never describe reality ...

Only the feeling of the sensation.
I am not sure whether those emotions are supposed to stay or change.. maybe I should spent more time inviting those emotions?They don't change..anytime I look to this text it raises up again and I have again this tight painful sensation around my heart...:/

Nothing has to be supposed to be somehow... ;) It is, as it is... If you can handle it, then you can stay with the emotion as I've described above, be mindful of the breath, soft and slow, longer exhalations... And also if this sensation is not there, whenever it comes in mind bring your attention to this area and feel what can there be felt...

Most important, relax as good as possible, maybe with a slight smile... :)

But at the same time I can see clearly they are only sense perception. There is no Sonia to experience it.It is just perception.

Great, keep reminding yourself about this... :)

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,
I am trying to do the exercise but I am sorry - again I feel tired and can't concentrate just now. I will do this tomorrow day time and I will write tomorrow.
Thank you
:)

[barb]

That‘s fine, thanks :)

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,

Can there a heart be found in DE? Does the raw sensing anything know about "heart"? Is there any border findable? Where does the sensation begin, where does it end? What makes the heart to „your“ heart? 
Can you find someone who owns the heart? 

For some reason I am not able to create this tense feeling around my heart again.I tried yesterday and couple of times today - even when I read your text about the fact there never was any Sonia (which made those feelings arise initially).. so I felt little bit stressed that I cannot perform this task🙄
However,when I concentrate on the heart area I can see there is no heart in DE.There is the knowledge that heart as an organ is in the place where I thought to have those feelings. But actually looking in and experiencing some tension (although a lot less tense) around the heart just now I see there is no border and really it is again only the perception of sensing this tightness. There are no boundaries of where it starts and where it is finished. It is just felt. There is no one who owns the heart. Just really the perception of the emotion in the DE. Nothing else is there.I want to write no person involved but I feel like there cannot even be anywhere to fit the person since all the perception is one seamless "reality" Where would I fit the person😄 Just a thought😊

What if this „nothingness“ is the answer? Gaze into this nothingness!

In the "nothingness" there is just peace.Nothing has to be changed or solved there..it is just perfect.. (if I am not imagining something.Always doubting myself🙄 )

nothing has to be supposed to be somehow..it is, as it is... If you can handle it, then you can stay with the emotion as I've described above

I will watch out for emotions. I have noticed earlier if I just stay with the emotion it doesn't "override me"
:)

[barb]

For some reason I am not able to create this tense feeling around my heart again.I tried yesterday and couple of times today - even when I read your text about the fact there never was any Sonia (which made those feelings arise initially).. so I felt little bit stressed that I cannot perform this task?

Yes, this is very common and no reason to be stressed :) You've already seen, that there is nothing under control, so if you cannot perform, then that is what is... Nothing right or wrong. Sometimes if we permit emotions to stay as they are, then they vanish... Keep just in mind the method if strong emotions come up... :)

However,when I concentrate on the heart area I can see there is no heart in DE.There is the knowledge that heart as an organ is in the place where I thought to have those feelings. But actually looking in and experiencing some tension (although a lot less tense) around the heart just now I see there is no border and really it is again only the perception of sensing this tightness. There are no boundaries of where it starts and where it is finished. It is just felt. There is no one who owns the heart. Just really the perception of the emotion in the DE. Nothing else is there.I want to write no person involved but I feel like there cannot even be anywhere to fit the person since all the perception is one seamless "reality" Where would I fit the person?

Very well seen. Is there a border between perception and sensing? Or a border between emotion and perception?

In the "nothingness" there is just peace.Nothing has to be changed or solved there..it is just perfect.. (if I am not imagining something.Always doubting myself? )

Peace is beautiful, but is also perceived, isn't it? It's about perceiving... There is no reason for doubt because nothing ever can be known, nothing is under control – no controller – everything happens by itself, therefore there is no right or wrong. The only thing that can be known with certainty is that there is perceiving - without a doubt. But nevertheless, if there is doubt then this is what is... ;)

I will watch out for emotions. I have noticed earlier if I just stay with the emotion it doesn't "override me" 

Yes, very good, but you do not have to look for emotions. Try to look effortlessly as often as possible at what is here know in DE. What can be seen-heard-felt-touched-smelt... :)

Let's have a closer look at the nature of thought:

Sit quietly for a couple of minutes, breath slowly and relax. Then begin watching gently the thoughts:

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

2. Can you predict what thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?


Please answer each question individually...

Have fun with it... :)

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,
I will need little more time to investigate all the questions if thats ok..I usually have time to write you only in the evenings and when I get to it I am sometimes feeling tired. Reading those questions and your comments already makes me smiling curiously:) I look forward to go through it.I will write soon..will aim for tomorrow.
🙏

[barb]

:) Always take the time you need <3

[Marigold]

Hi Barb,

Thank you. I am doing this the 2nd time as all of my answers dissapeared when I was just about to post it yesterday. Never mind - more looking for me:)

Is there a border between perception and sensing? Or a border between emotion and perception?

No, there is no border. There is instant knowing of the direct experience. So for example if I feel a little pain in my body just now it is just perceived/sensed. But it is actually only one thing. Not two.

Peace is beautiful, but is also perceived, isn't it?

I see your point now. Good I am doing this the 2nd time as I didn't get this last time:) But yes - peace - it is only the perception of it that matters. In this case thought perception. Never mind if it is a peace or anxiety or sadness or excitement if I understand your answer correctly.

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

Thoughts don't come from anywhere and they don't go anywhere:) They are just perceived. I want to write they appear and disappear but even this is not true as it would suggest there is some activity in it. It is not. Only the perception of the thought exist.

2. Can you predict what thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

Absolutely not:D Since I don't know what thought will come next I can't stop it. I also can't stop it once it is perceived as if I set the intention to stop it the thought will already not be there. It will be gone. Also I cannot remove a thought once it has appeared. It is not in "my power" to do this. I don't know how would I do it:D

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

If I do this exercise it seems that for a brief moment just after the intention of "I won't think now" thoughts don't come but shortly after they do. Again - I have no power over this. I have no power to "not perceive" the thoughts if they come.

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

No. All sorts of thoughts are coming. I cannot even decide to "have thoughts" or "not to have thoughts". I can go over some nice memories for a short time but I can't influence what kind of fresh thought will come next.

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

No. It is seen and known instantly at the same moment.

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

It is not a special thought. It comes from the same place as the other thoughts.

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

No. I feel a thought has no force to do anything. It doesn't have any "life". Thoughts can only be perceived.

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?

Thoughts just come on their own. They are perceived without any effort. I don't have the power to "have thoughts" or "not to have thoughts" therefore there cannot be any thinker who would be in control of all this. It all just happens by itself. Only the perception is there.

:):)

[barb]

Thank you. I am doing this the 2nd time as all of my answers dissapeared when I was just about to post it yesterday. Never mind - more looking for me:)

Yes this sometimes happens, therefore it would be a good idea to write in a word program and then copy it in the answer section....

No, there is no border. There is instant knowing of the direct experience. So for example if I feel a little pain in my body just now it is just perceived/sensed. But it is actually only one thing. Not two.

Yes, exactly...

I see your point now.

My point is absolutely unimportant. I know nothing and I can't teach you anything... The only thing that I can do is to point in some directions, and there you have to look how it is for you, how your own experience is...

Good I am doing this the 2nd time as I didn't get this last time:) But yes - peace - it is only the perception of it that matters. In this case thought perception. Never mind if it is a peace or anxiety or sadness or excitement if I understand your answer correctly.

Perceiving is always there, always neutral... Can you ever make the experience of the absence of perceiving?
All appearances changes... Even after the gateless gate, there is no everlasting peace or joy or happiness. It could happen, that when this is seen some sort of stability takes place.
Can one decide to mind about something or not? If there is minding, then that is what appears... This is also perceived, isn't it?

Thoughts don't come from anywhere and they don't go anywhere:) They are just perceived. I want to write they appear and disappear but even this is not true as it would suggest there is some activity in it. It is not. Only the perception of the thought exist.

Is there a separation between thought and perceiving of thought? Here perceiving – there thought?

If I do this exercise it seems that for a brief moment just after the intention of "I won't think now" thoughts don't come but shortly after they do. Again - I have no power over this. I have no power to "not perceive" the thoughts if they come.

Can you find an „I“ which could have power over anything?

I can go over some nice memories for a short time but I can't influence what kind of fresh thought will come next.

Is this intention to go over some nice memories not also a thought which happens completely by itself?

Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

No. It is seen and known instantly at the same moment.

:)

It all just happens by itself. Only the perception is there.

Wonderful!

Great job with the thought exercise :)


Look at the mind as an automatic labeling machine, a narrator without an on-off switch. Its purpose is to name what the senses perceive, to label feelings, and to narrate the story.

Sit for a couple of minutes and notice what the mind does. Don’t pay much attention to content, but observe how the labeling mechanism works. Look around you now. Notice how thoughts spring up and label objects, tell a story about things, how they got there, without your having any control over them. Thoughts are just that—labels that point to things, senses or ideas. Then close your eyes and notice how a sound is heard and thoughts describe what happened. A tingling sensation comes and thoughts label it. Just pay attention to how something is experienced and then labeled immediately afterward. See how everything runs on automatic.


Keep watching this in everyday life. It is quite interesting with advertising posters and street signs, etc. Try not to read the scriptures, that's almost impossible ... :))

Please tell me how this is for you :)

[Marigold]

Can you ever make the experience of the absence of perceiving?

No, it is impossible. There has to be perceiving in order the experience to be recognised or known. There is no experience without the perception.

Can one decide to mind about something or not?

No, there is only the perception of the thought in DE. There cannot be any prior decision about it.

Is there a separation between thought and perceiving of thought? Here perceiving – there thought?

There is no separation. It is one seamless "reality".

Can you find an „I“ which could have power over anything?
It is quite clear to me doing this investigation that there is no one who has any power. It all just happens by itself and is known without any effort. There is no one:D

Is this intention to go over some nice memories not also a thought which happens completely by itself

Yes, it is! :)

Sit for a couple of minutes and notice what the mind does. Don’t pay much attention to content, but observe how the labeling mechanism works. Look around you now. Notice how thoughts spring up and label objects, tell a story about things, how they got there, without your having any control over them. Thoughts are just that—labels that point to things, senses or ideas. Then close your eyes and notice how a sound is heard and thoughts describe what happened. A tingling sensation comes and thoughts label it. Just pay attention to how something is experienced and then labeled immediately afterward. See how everything runs on automatic.

Yes, I can see it for the first time. There is no effort to know yet it happens. If I rest the gaze on photo the names and the day when it was taken is perceived. If I look from the window information about a place I am at the moment is perceived. If I see my daughter's toy on the floor information about the people who gave it to her or the last time she played with it appears. This is put very simplistically but I can see a lot of information just comes up and is perceived. And it is all happening spontaneously. There is no one thinking these thoughts or making a decision what kind of thoughts and info will come up for a specific object.
When I hear a noise outside - it is labelled as rain so the image of rain and the wet street comes. If I hear a car in a distance the image of the road where the car is driven takes place.
There is no choice perceiving or not perceiving those thoughts. It just happens.
This is quite amazing discovery tonight!:)

I look forward to watch more of this in everyday life. Especially when I am with others and engaged with my toddler (constantly). I think this might be a little challenge as I think this is easier done when I am on my own and I can concentrate. But at the same time I see it is only a thought that appears. It will be as it will be.

Thank you
:)

[barb]

Can one decide to mind about something or not?

No, there is only the perception of the thought in DE. There cannot be any prior decision about it.

Exactly :)

Is there a separation between thought and perceiving of thought? Here perceiving – there thought?

There is no separation. It is one seamless "reality". 

:)

It is quite clear to me doing this investigation that there is no one who has any power. It all just happens by itself and is known without any effort. There is no one:D

Great :)

Yes, I can see it for the first time. There is no effort to know yet it happens. If I rest the gaze on photo the names and the day when it was taken is perceived. If I look from the window information about a place I am at the moment is perceived. If I see my daughter's toy on the floor information about the people who gave it to her or the last time she played with it appears. This is put very simplistically but I can see a lot of information just comes up and is perceived. And it is all happening spontaneously. There is no one thinking these thoughts or making a decision what kind of thoughts and info will come up for a specific object.
When I hear a noise outside - it is labelled as rain so the image of rain and the wet street comes. If I hear a car in a distance the image of the road where the car is driven takes place. 
There is no choice perceiving or not perceiving those thoughts. It just happens.
This is quite amazing discovery tonight!:)

Wonderful, very well seen... :)

I look forward to watch more of this in everyday life. Especially when I am with others and engaged with my toddler (constantly). I think this might be a little challenge as I think this is easier done when I am on my own and I can concentrate. But at the same time I see it is only a thought that appears. It will be as it will be. 

Yes, it is at it is... If there is observing, then there is so... If not, then not... Make it playful, curiosly without to much effort. The fairytale world of thought automatically becomes less and less interesting the more it is seen that it has nothing to do with reality, and by happening so, what is appearing right now becomes more and more amazing... :)


Let's have a look what the difference is between the direct experience and what thought interprets into it.

Place an apple (or another fruit) on a white surface in front of you and examine:

Where does seeing take place? Outside or inside?
Where is the border between outside and inside?
Does seeing look more like 2D or 3D, if you only actually see and think nothing?
Look closely: do you actually see an "apple" apart from a color?
How do you know the name of the color? Notice how thoughts call what is seen.
How do you know the name of the apple?
Does what you see have a name when you see it or is there just seeing something? Notice the gap between seeing and labeling.
Is there someone who sees and the seen, or is there just seeing?
Is there an "entity" that perceives a perceived object or is there simply perceiving?
What is the task of thoughts in this whole process of perception?
Do you think the experience or is there only experiencing?

Thank you

Thank you for your trust and your honest engagement, it's a pleasure to be with you :))